Nausena-Pt5-JA not Fiction-AKBAR-a TITLE?.P27+ MAHACHUCHAK BEGUM - P30 - Page 17

Originally posted by: divyavm

Hi Abhay,

Thanks as always for your interesting and intriguing posts. Typing from my phone as I couldn't wait- so no emoticons.
No issues. This post is fine.
Here are some general observations of what I found interesting and relevant to the show:

- Akbar's tradition of forgiving: there seems to be a lot of examples of Akbar forgiving folks who have been faithful in the past- this Asaf Khan being one of them. Any thoughts on this?
Yes, this is a fact. Akbar did forgive many people who had betrayed him.😕 And, the irony was thatm such people were mostly is near and dear ones, or the ones who were in GREAT position of authority. Soon, we are going to see, the involvement of Munim Khan, in the elimination of Atga Khan. Munim Khan was also Akbar's ataliq at that time , still he did gaddari, and ran away from Agra, but was forgiven and reinstated in his office.😕

- We see where Akbar's liking for boat rides come from as you mention. Yeah.😉😃

- Also, like the note on Maan Singh dedicating the spoils to his Aunt / MUZ. As his power in the sultanate rises, I look forward to how the show shapes his character as a support to his aunt.
I strongly want an increasing involvement of Man Singh with Akbar as it was historically also. Not only him but his father as well. 😊

Now, coming to your 4 questions:

1. Absolutely you see the role of women in the paintings and I think to a large extent in the show as well. However, in real life, he likely balanced the influence of the navaratnas with his wifes. I would like to believe the influence of women was why he was more socially progressive- though not how they showed it in the Tasleem track!
It is true. His wife's' DID have influence on him, and influenced his habits in many ways. Read Badayuni's accounts 'carefully' and one gets to know of this. How much Badayuni was frustrated with his wife's', Birbal, etc. and wrote a critical account obout Akbar.😆

2. The paintings are beautiful- and you do a great job of dissecting them. I am glad they left all the detail for you!
Thanx. Atleast we can decipher a LOT from these paintings.😉

3. I am always surprised how there is limited documentation on Akbar's Hindu queen while more so on MUZ. I strongly feel Aurangzeb wanted to erase the references.
No doubt on this fact. Correctly put. He did alter/destroy a lot of historical 'treasures' .!.

I also feel that a lot of historical treasures were lost in the British reign. I have read India was ready to go through a Golden period if it were not Britishers reign and we also lost 80% of India's wealth.
This is a fact, beyond doubt. Many of India's artefacts were taken abroad during this time. At present the original Akbarnama paintings are also abroad, taken from India in the 19th century.😕

4. I am not familiar with this- but I am surprised they did not develop the navy more. But, I like how Akbar likes boats.
Actually, they were quite strong on land, and i did not see any major boundation on them to develop a navy, though Jahangir must have felt a need of Navy when Portuguese captured MUZ's ship, the first major act of this kind by them. Bur, even then Mughal army was strong enough, and jahangir ordered confiscation of some Portuguese towns in Gujarat. But, lack of Navy was still a shortcoming.!.
Thanks again for your historical posts. They are brilliant.
Welcome.!.
Divya

Originally posted by: ayushimehra

AGAIN APPRICIATE YOU, PROVIDING US GREAT INFORMATION.

IN THESE DAYS WE ALL ARE BECOMING HISTORY 'S GOOD STUDENTS😆 😆

1. DOES THE PRESENCE OF LADIES IN THE PORTRAITS

YES, IN AKBAR'S ERA, WOMENS CONDITIONS WERE BETTER. WOMEN PARTICIPATE IN DEK,SHE CAN SPEAK IN FRONT OF KING, WOMENS WERE PROVIDED HIGHER POISTIONS

EX. M U J M U M. THEY WERE QUALIFIED. SALIMA BEGUM. RUK. HAMIDA. GULBADAN. ETC

THEY WERE PERFECT, IN (TEER, ANDAZI, CHESS, HUNTING.NURJHANHA WAS PERFECT IN (TEER-ANADJI) BUT ONE TIME PUNSHIED BY JAHANGIR) SALIMA WAS GOOD POETESS(IT MEANS FREEDOM OF WRITING. GULBADAN IS ALSO EX)

I ALSO READ IN HISTORY (MUGHAL LADIES KNOWS HOW TO MAKE PREFUMES) IT SHOWS THEY CAN CHOOSE PROFESSION ACC. TO HER TASTE LADIES WERE HAKKIMS.

JODHA PRACTISEES IN SWORD, FIGHTING WHEN AKBAR WAS NOT AT FATHPUR SIKKRI JODHA HANDLED SOME WARS,(IT SHOWS POWER OF WOMEN &FAITH OF KING TO QUEENS)

BUT ONE THING;;HOW AKBAR WAS BROAD, HE DID SO MUCH BROAD DECESIONS.IN 16 CEN

(INTER-CASTE MARRIAGE)FREEDOM TO JODHA FAITH HER RELEGION IT SHOWS HIS BRAVERY,HIS VISION&FEELING ABOUT WO-MEN.RUK WAS CHIEF CONSULTANT.JODHA WAS SHIP INCHARGE. INCOME-OF WHICH GET FROM TRADE ALSO GIVEN TO QUEENS,(IT SHOWS VAST THINKING, TRUST, HONESTY, CAPBILITY OF WOMEN. MUMATAZ WAS GOOD IN PAINTING. JODHA SINGING FAMOUS IN AGRA& FATHPURSIKIRI, JODHA SINGS SOMETIME TANSEN(SHOWS HIGH LEVEL THINKING)

DIFFERENT TYPE OF REALGION LADIES WERE LIVING TOGETHER.SHOWS ONENESS.JODHA WANTS TO LEARN URDU, FREEDOM OF LEARNING

HOLI, DIWALI, PAINTING, JODHA;S TEMPLE,IN FATHPUR SIKIRI WALLS DESCRIBED HINDU -CLUTURE. SHOWS AKBAR GREATNESS &WOMEN POSITION IN THAT ERA.

2. ALSO ABOUT THE EXPERTISE OF PAINTERS OF THOSE TIMES

YES, PAINTERS OF THOSE TIMES PROVIDE US SO BEAUTIFUL PAINTINGS,PAINTERS ALSO DID GREAT JOB WHEN FORTS WERE CONSTRUCTING. THERE WALLS, THERE DESIGIONS.THERE ARCHITECTURE.COLOURS,TECHNIQUES.ACC TO PERSONALITY SHOWING PAINTINGS, IN AGRA FORT EVERY MARBLE SPEAKS EVERY WALL SPEAKS BECAUSE PAINTERS HAVE TO FREEDOM DESCRIBE THEMSELVES. IF WE SEE PAINTING AKBAR FACE. SO CONIFIDENT. BUT WHEN HE GOES TO AJMAR SHARRIF HIS FACE IS SHOWING HUMBLENESS THAT SHOWS GREATNESS OF PAINTERS, ARROWS .BOATSCENE EVERYPAINTING SPEAKS.(IN MUGHUAL TIME ART WAS EXTREEM LEVEL

IN AGRA FORT I REMEMBER FOUNTAINS, GARDENS, WERE MUSICAL. IT SHOWS THEY KNOWS HOW TO LIVE. SOME RELAX IS NECESSARY.AKBAR DARBAR HAS NNE RATANS

THEY ALL ARE DIFFERENT;

BIRBAL''' INTELLIGENT. GOOD SPEAKER ETC ETC

EVERY RATAN HAS ITS OWN QUALITY.IT SHOWS AGAIN GREATNESS OF MUGHUAL EMPIRE.

3. WOULD ALSO LIKE TO HEAR

YES A LOT OF DESTRUCTION LOSSES OF HISTORICAL TREASURES AT THE HANDS OF VARIOUS AGENCIES. WE ARE NOT PTOTECTING OUR HISTORICAL BUILDINGS.

I VISTED AGRA FORT FIRST TIME I SAW A SMALL MIRROR IN AGRA FORT WHICH WE SEE TAJ MAHAL THROUGH THAT MIRROR(SHAHJHAN SEES TAJ MAHAL THAT MIRROR WHEN HE WAS ARRESTED) BUT SECOND TIME WHEN I VISTED THAT MIRROR HAS BEEN BROKEN(SO SAD) KOHINOOR HEERA OF MUGHUALS WHICH WAS DECOTRACTED IN KINGS (TAKHAT) NOT AVAILABLE NOW MAYBEE STOLEN. THIS IS OUR SAFTY. I ALSO MENTION BEFORE EVERY PILLER HAS DIFFERENT MEANING IN FORTS.EVERY WALL CREATES DIFFERENT SOUNDS.

IF WE SEE STARTING OF THAT PLACES HOW MUCH THEY SECURE. THEIR WORK. IF WE SEE CHAMBERS OF KINGS &QUEENS THEY ARE MANUFACTURED ACC TO WEATHER. SMALL WALLS WHICH HAVE GAP WATER WAS FILLED IN SUMMER THEY WORK AS IN DAYS WORK COLLER OR AC.SO SCIENCE &TECHNIQUES WERE GOOD THAT TIME. BUT WE ARE NOT ABLE TO PROTECT THEM.

4. ALSO REGARDING THE FIGHT ON BOATS;

AKBAR EMPIRE WAS SO VAST THEY TRADE OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY.SO THEY USE SHIPS OR BOATS. MUJ WAS THE INCHARGE OF SHIPS. INCOME ALSO USED BY MUJ. I THINK MAYBEE ONE SHIP AFTER AKBAR DEATH WAS SEEGED WHICH WAS SOUGHT OUT BY HER SON JAHANGIR(SALIM)

IN I6 CEN AKBAR HAS UNITED THE WHOLE KINGDOM &BECOME THE AKBAR THE GREAT FOR MANY REASONS.AFTER AKBAR;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

WHEN RAHIM WAS 15 YEARS OLD AKBAR LISTENS FROM HIM POEMS. AKBAR WAS FOND OF EVERY THING.(AKBAR HAS MANY QUALTIES, BUT IN SERIAL WHEN WE WILL SEE????????

JODHA HAS ALSO SO MUCH QUALTIES.

😆(RABB NEE BANA DEE JODI)😊 😊

MUGHAL ALSO GIVE US ; TAJ MAHAL. LOT OF FORTS.

SHALIMAR BAGH. NISSHANT BAGH. RED FORT.;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

AMER TO AGRA FORT WHICH SURRUNG GOES SHOWS HOW AKBAR MIND WAS DEVELOPED THAT TIME(TRUST WITH AMER PEOPLE ALSO SHOWS)

WHO NOT READ GREEN COLOUR PLEASE READ NEXT PAGE.

Originally posted by: ann2012

hoshiyaar and resham being painted instead of queens??

I don't think it is possible. Why would the painter bother painting the harem guards? Anyhow, the soldiers in non-war paintings are shown so sparsely.

The paintings capture the essence of that time and the important events minutely. The female presence in Asaf Khan's surrender painting is in sync with the explanation that ladies attended such events. From the paintings i have seen marriage was also one occasion when ladies were present in abundance in court.

Ho sakta hai aur bhi paintings main women ho but they were painted over because even paintings of Akbar's and Jahangir's court didn't have that gilded screen over emperor's throne. Foreign accounts have informed us of harem women being able to see the court proceedings and women hiding behind marble screens a floor above. So, it could be concluded that Aurangzeb had such details painted over but missed some, like the surrender of Asaf Khan miniature.

But should all the blame be only on Aurangzeb's shoulders? Could there more people involved? Where did the Akbarnama vanish after Jahangir's rule? Is there no account explaining it's absence?? Ask me, it is a big conspiracy spanning centuries...

Think we need Sherlock here 😳

Originally posted by: najma123

just wanted to know, who was dearest badi ammi's husband? i didnt come across any post where you mentioned it, if you have please tell me too. just curious. kisne aisi aurat se shaadi ki hogi! pity that man.😲

Originally posted by: history_geek

I have been asked this many times. So, finally i am answering here.😆

Maham Anga had married Nadeem Khan . He was a military officer under Humayun. He and Shams-ud-din Atga Khan(husband of Jiji Anga), were VERY close to Humayun. They both were among the group of people who were asked to escort Hamida Bano Begum, from the palace of Rana Veersal of Amarkot, after giving birth to Akbar. 😊 Humayun saw Akbar after 32 nights and 33 days of his birth.

Nadeem was of Turkish descent, and he was in high favour of Humayun, who had granted him the honor of 'illat', meaning the 'sealer'.

There is very LESS reference about her husband.
1. His name was found in a manuscript present in the library of an officer of the East India Company, name Col. H.B. Hana in late 19th century. This manuscript was studied by the translator Mr. Beveridge. Col. H.B Hana was a witness to the Afghan Wars in the first half of 19th century.
2. Also, his name was found in "another" version of Humayun-Nama,😉 written by Khan-da-Amir, between Page-1495-97.

BTW, If interested then, one more info.😉
Name of Maham Anga's mother in law was Fakh-run-nissa Begum.
And, her father-in-law was Nur-ud-din.

And, Fakh-run-nissa Begum was the FIRST wet nurse who was the granted the charge of Akbar, after he had milk from his mother, Hamida Bano Begum.

There is NO mention of Maham Anga in the list of wet-nurses, who provided their milk to Akbar(among half a dozen ladies), as per Abu'l Fazl. 😕 It was Jiji Anga, who was the prominent lady among all these. And, it seems, that Maham Anga, was their leader. 🤓

Reference:
I have ONLY noted down the info from many sources NOT the exact account name. But, still have given some source material above. 😊

Originally posted by: history_geek

I have been asked this many times. So, finally i am answering here.😆

Maham Anga had married Nadeem Khan . He was a military officer under Humayun. He and Shams-ud-din Atga Khan(husband of Jiji Anga), were VERY close to Humayun. They both were among the group of people who were asked to escort Hamida Bano Begum, from the palace of Rana Veersal of Amarkot, after giving birth to Akbar. 😊 Humayun saw Akbar after 32 nights and 33 days of his birth.

Nadeem was of Turkish descent, and he was in high favour of Humayun, who had granted him the honor of 'illat', meaning the 'sealer'.

There is very LESS reference about her husband.
1. His name was found in a manuscript present in the library of an officer of the East India Company, name Col. H.B. Hana in late 19th century. This manuscript was studied by the translator Mr. Beveridge. Col. H.B Hana was a witness to the Afghan Wars in the first half of 19th century.
2. Also, his name was found in "another" version of Humayun-Nama,😉 written by Khan-da-Amir, between Page-1495-97.

BTW, If interested then, one more info.😉
Name of Maham Anga's mother in law was Fakh-run-nissa Begum.
And, her father-in-law was Nur-ud-din.

And, Fakh-run-nissa Begum was the FIRST wet nurse who was the granted the charge of Akbar, after he had milk from his mother, Hamida Bano Begum.

There is NO mention of Maham Anga in the list of wet-nurses, who provided their milk to Akbar(among half a dozen ladies), as per Abu'l Fazl. 😕 It was Jiji Anga, who was the prominent lady among all these. And, it seems, that Maham Anga, was their leader. 🤓

Reference:
I have ONLY noted down the info from many sources NOT the exact account name. But, still have given some source material above. 😊

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

You're Welcome Radhika.
I agree with your points. But, history praises some people and ignore some.😕 This is how some are forgotten and some are praised.(No offense intended to anyone.)

If you go through the history of North Indians/Rajputana rulers or South Indian Kingdoms, namely Chola, Chera, Chalukya, Pandya and many other dynasties, you will SURELY get some talented / warrior women in them, which contributed a lot on cultural front as well. And there feats are NOT LESS, or ordinary. Literature of Sangam times is a testimony to some of these. Have you read about :

1. Razia Sultana, she ruled over Delhi, and challenged the authority of Turkan-i-Chalgani.

2. Chand Bibi(Bijapur, later Akmednagar), She challenged the might of Akbar, despite being outnumbered for the independence on her kingdom, and finally betrayed by her own troops. She is still remembered for her stiff resistance for years. Even her general defected to Mughal forces.

3. Queen Abaka, of the Tulunad/Chowta dynasty. She reigned as a regent/direct ruler from 1525 to 1575. Fought 3 Major battles against Portuguese, winning all of them. She was an efficient horse rider, a martial artist, sword fighter, accomplish archer, trained in warfare/artillery planning, war politics, diplomatic affairs, military strategist. The accounts of Italian traveller P.D. Valle mention her. She fought with Portuguese on the boats & developed naval ships with mounted canons, and Portuguese fleet surrendered.!!!!!!!!!..(something which the great Mughals did not do. See her timeline of rule is from 1525-1575, and Akbar from 1556-1605. I am only saying she was his contemporary and still she is not known MUCH.)
I had a friend in Mangalore. She provided a lot of info on this lady.

4. Prithviraj Raso mentions Solanki(a Rajput Clan) Queen Rani Nayeki, { the mother of Rani Kuram<- wife of Samar Singh of Chittor(he also married (PRC)Prithviraj Chauhan's sister, Pratha}. She defeated M. Ghori when he attacked via the Ahilwara Paas, as her son was a minor that time.
If you have any contact in the Mewar/ Udaipur Royal Household, surely you can get more details about her. 😊


5. The above mentioned Rani Nayeki's daughter, Rani Kuram defeated Qutb-ud-din (the general of Muhammed Ghori), in 1194. ( Her husband, Rawal Samar Singh,35th ruler of Mewar/Chittor was slained in 1192, fighting Ghori, he fought along with PRC, at the second battle at Tarain )

The above battle with Qutb-ud-din took place near the Aravallis , besides "Amber Fort😉 ". {BTW, Don't you feel these days something or the other, somehow relates to places associated with Jodha-Akbar.😆}


Here is a portrait of Rani Kuram.😊

I want to add more details about these(and others), but a bit of laziness has creeped inside, after writing all this.😉

On a serious note, what i mean to say is - about women warriors in Indian History, there are MANY, but as i said above, History praises some and Forgets others.😕

I wrote few days back to someone that Mughal Chronicles are available easily and HENCE, we know about them better, because their memoirs and accounts were translated by the Britishers in ENGLISH, but for Rajputana History, we need to DIG hard by going to their OWN museums and palaces, and even after we find them, many are in Persian/Sanskrit and other languages. I have less idea about availability of South Indian literature.
(No wonder Ekta took 2+ years to dig the historical accounts for this show. 😉 I totally understand her efforts.😊)
Even this picture i have posted above has something written in Sanskrit ?

BTW, apart from being warriors, some of these ladies have other achievements to their credit as well. Consider their situation and the adverse circumstances, and then analyze them. Talent can be of many types. I don't find these i mentioned above to be lesser than others.

Edited by history_geek - 11 years ago

Originally posted by: history_geek

Hi Radhika,
I am transferring this convo here, from Mansi's thread's from this link .!.
This convo started from the episode and now heading towards history.
I had something to add, so i am doing it here.

Hello Akbaropaedia,

As usual am gonna be tangential...timeline wise...there is the Maharani of Kittur -Chennamma From Karnataka...had seen the Kittur palace when I was a teen..(err that's two years ago...ain't it 😉..)...there is Ahilyabai Holkar from Indore...and of course..our very own Jeanne D'Arc... Immortalized by the following lines ...

"Bundele Harbalon ke muh humne suni kahaani thi...

Khoob ladi Mardani woh to Jhansi wali Rani thi..."

Those lines...that entire poem in fact still has the power to evoke shivers of awe..

Those were the giants...the greats...the heroes...

And today,of course... we have Mayawati...jeez how far downward can our spiral go?😕