Who is Laila? Analyzing Laila and Parud

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Zeeliciousxo

@Zeeliciousxo

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#21

Originally posted by: aamir18
I agree completely that Laila is not in love with, but infatuated with the idea of Rudra. Your points of contrast between Paro and Laila were accurate. 100% completely.

But I disagree with this notion:

" I feel that Laila is RESPONSIBLE for the way she is looked at"

I'm an infrequent viewer of RR due to time commitments, but why do you believe this is true?

Was it revealed that Laila is a prostitute? And since when has dancing been downgraded to the work done by women with no self respect? I genuinely don't think it's Laila or her actions that are "impure", but the vision through which she is viewed is distorted.

And maybe I am too deeply enamored with my feminist approach to life, but I strictly believe that a woman deserves due respect, no matter what she wears, who she sleeps with or how she carries herself. No woman, not even one who walks around naked, deserves to be treated like a piece of meat... regardless of what she does with her body.

So with all due respect, I do disagree with a few points of your post, though your post was an interesting read.

Laila is responsible because she consciously allows herself to be treated like a piece of meat. She serves herself to the male gaze. Where is her self-respect? In India calling someone a "naachnewali" also means they are a prostitute, the word "naachnewali" has a double meaning. The vision through which she is viewed is the one that created her actions, her actions only exist because the vision is patriarchal and treats women as objects. When Laila lets this vision take control of her, she is degrading no one but herself. In this sense Laila is not free, she is a prisoner of her audience.

Honestly, that can be said for anyone then, not just women. EVERYBODY deserves respect, men included, no matter what they do. But then that becomes complicated because of "perspective". Nobody in this world is 100% objective, we respect and disrespect people based on our own social conditioning. I do think everybody, male or female, should be respected for their RIGHT to individual choice and freedom; but some may argue respect is earned, not given...and when someone doesn't respect them self, it becomes difficult for people to give the person respect at all...

Nobody deserves to be treated like a piece of meat but the truth is all societies abide by a certain cultural hegemony and thus the vision through which people are judged is created. Therefore I think it is our responsibility, no matter how society treats us or views us, to always maintain our self-respect and not succumb to dominant cultural values.

Thank you! At the end of the day we each have different opinions because we have different perspectives...I respect your opinion 😊

Edited by Zeeliciousxo - 11 years ago

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squivi

@squivi

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#22

Who is Laila? An attempted murderer who is obsessively infatuated with Major saab. 😆

I would've been interested in a redemption track for her right after haldi, because she saw how much Rudra cared for Paro immediately. Then she walked away. Okay, she tried to kill Paro. Big no no. However one can argue it was in the heat of the moment. She should've been arrested then and there, but she wasn't. If they showed her feeling a smidge of contemplation, remorse or "oh man I'll just leave Rudra alone, he doesn't want me, I don't need him" feeling, then a redemption would've been accepted by me.

Now, there is no redemption for her in my eyes anymore. She had enough time to digest haldi-gate and still wants to wreak havoc on the man she "loves". She has come into the haveli cold, calculatingly with completely un-noble intentions. She doesn't deserve anything - sympathy or understanding - from us viewers. She is selfish, insecure, nasty and embarrassing. Also, for someone who immediately recognized that Rudra has feelings for Paro at that time, does she actually think that he will fall for her when he's actually married to the woman he has feelings for? She doesn't give a damn about Rudra.

This is not really a woman in society thing, IMO. Paro, Maithili, Sunehri, etc are also women in patriarchal society, yet they don't have homicidal, deceitful and manipulative tendencies. This is about self-esteem, which Laila doesn't have. She will do whatever it takes to make herself feel better. It's a personality issue more, at least in my opinion.

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Zee

@aamir18

Rocker

+ 6

Posted: 11 years ago

#23

I don't think there is anything wrong with a woman doing whatever she wants to do. Enjoying sex or dancing for money or anything of this nature doesn't imply the absence of self respect... at least the way I perceive it. Circumstances, emotions, past commitments, family... they all play a role in what we are and what we do, and they are hardly considered when we form opinions about the people around us.

Again, I think Laila's actions adhere to society's patriarchal and stereotypical view of "cheap" women, but I do not think it is proper to deem Laila responsible for this. In fact, I think you're saying the same thing indirectly. A "naachnewali" is deemed to be a prostitute, when her profession is actually that of dance --- take it from a woman who has learned Kathak for 13 years and been constantly degraded because of her "vulgar" association with it. It's societal limitations that enforce women to believe they must behave under rigid, constricting guidelines--- don't have sex, don't wear revealing clothes, don't talk to strangers, don't dance-- the guidelines are the ones at fault, not the women who do not follow them.

Now, I agree that respect is earned. But I don't think it has to do with sexual relations and dancing. In that aspect, I don't think Laila deserves all the heat she receives. Yes, the dislike based on her selfishness, her attempts at murder and her idiocy is TOTALLY justified, but to hate her for anything else seems a bit strange to me.

Overall, I don't think the basis of Laila's antagonism should be based on how she refuses to be contained by society, but by her evidently compulsive and destructive personality.

Respect your opinion as well. Agree to disagree. Thanks for the thought provoking post.

(P.S After reading your next post, I realize where the difference of opinion stems from. I simply don't believe that our actions should place us in the rungs of a social ladder. And I don't accredit the fact that one exists to the women who are placed in it, but to the society that builds it.)

Thank you again for this post! It was really interesting to read your POV! 😃

Best,

Zee

Originally posted by: Zeeliciousxo

Laila is responsible because she consciously allows herself to be treated like a piece of meat. She serves herself to the male gaze. Where is her self-respect? In India calling someone a "naachnewali" also means they are a prostitute, the word "naachnewali" has a double meaning. The vision through which she is viewed is the one that created her actions, her actions only exist because the vision is patriarchal and treats women as objects. When Laila lets this vision take control of her, she is degrading no one but herself. In this sense Laila is not free, she is a prisoner of her audience.

Honestly, that can be said for anyone then, not just women. EVERYBODY deserves respect, men included, no matter what they do. But then that becomes complicated because of "perspective". Nobody in this world is 100% objective, we respect and disrespect people based on our own social conditioning. I do think everybody, male or female, should be respected for their RIGHT to individual choice and freedom; but some may argue respect is earned, not given...and when someone doesn't respect them self, it becomes difficult for them to give the person respect...

Nobody deserves to be treated like a piece of meat but the truth is all societies abide by a certain cultural hegemony and thus the vision through which people are judged is created. Therefore I think it is our responsibility to, no matter how society treats us or views us, to always maintain our self-respect and not succumb to dominant cultural values.

Thank you! At the end of the day we each have different opinions because we have different perspectives...I respect your opinion 😊

Edited by aamir18 - 11 years ago

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Zeeliciousxo

@Zeeliciousxo

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#24

Originally posted by: squivi
Who is Laila? An attempted murderer who is obsessively infatuated with Major saab. 😆
I would've been interested in a redemption track for her right after haldi, because she saw how much Rudra cared for Paro immediately. Then she walked away. Okay, she tried to kill Paro. Big no no. However one can argue it was in the heat of the moment. She should've been arrested then and there, but she wasn't. If they showed her feeling a smidge of contemplation, remorse or "oh man I'll just leave Rudra alone, he doesn't want me, I don't need him" feeling, then a redemption would've been accepted by me.

Now, there is no redemption for her in my eyes anymore. She had enough time to digest haldi-gate and still wants to wreak havoc on the man she "loves". She has come into the haveli cold, calculatingly with completely un-noble intentions. She doesn't deserve anything - sympathy or understanding - from us viewers. She is selfish, insecure, nasty and embarrassing. Also, for someone who immediately recognized that Rudra has feelings for Paro at that time, does she actually think that he will fall for her when he's actually married to the woman he has feelings for? She doesn't give a damn about Rudra.

This is not really a woman in society thing, IMO. Paro, Maithili, Sunehri, etc are also women in patriarchal society, yet they don't have homicidal, deceitful and manipulative tendencies. This is about self-esteem, which Laila doesn't have. She will do whatever it takes to make herself feel better. It's a personality issue more, at least in my opinion.

Yes Laila should definitely have gone to jail, but it seems that in Indian dramas people barely go to jail for the crimes they committ 😆 Hmm yes a redemption may be difficult for her now, and knowing Indian dramas she probably won't get one, but I still think if the cvs do it right it can be shown and done beautifully. She can go through a huge life-altering experience and really change. I agree she doesn't deserve sympathy or understanding from us, but if Rudra has the potential to change, she should too. Yes Rudra always had a good heart and over here Laila seems to have a black heart, but sometimes even the blackest hearts can change...or maybe I am being too optimistic...

@bold...I actually don't get that part either 😆 Maybe Laila thinks she can ignite hate between Rudra and Paro and then she will sweep in to comfort Rudra and he will finally be hers 😆 The woman is delusional at best...

Yes I agree that Laila's actions are because of her individual personality, but society has definitely played a role in shaping her personality. Unlike Paro, Maithili, and Sunheri; Laila is at the bottom of the social ladder and so she is subject the most to patriarchal values. My analysis on Laila's profession was actually because people were already discussing it, so yes while I do think her profession is related to her life obviously, her personality is what mainly determines her actions - whether they are good or bad. And right now they are as bad as they can get.

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Zeeliciousxo

@Zeeliciousxo

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#25

Originally posted by: aamir18
In my opinion, I don't think there is anything wrong with a woman doing whatever she wants to do. Enjoying sex or dancing for money or anything of this nature doesn't imply the absence of self respect... at least the way I perceive it. Circumstances, emotions, past commitments, family... they all play a role in what we are and what we do, and they are hardly considered when we form opinions about the people around us.

Again, I think Laila's actions adhere to society's patriarchal and stereotypical view of "cheap" women, but I do not think it is proper to deem Laila responsible for this. In fact, I think you're saying the same thing indirectly. A "naachnewali" is deemed to be a prostitute, when her profession is actually that of dance --- take it from a woman who has learned Kathak for 13 years and been constantly degraded because of her "vulgar" association with it. It's societal limitations that enforce women to believe they must behave under rigid, constricting guidelines--- don't have sex, don't wear revealing clothes, don't talk to strangers, don't dance-- the guidelines are the ones at fault, not the women who do not follow them.

Now, I agree that respect is earned. But I don't think it has to do with sexual relations and dancing. In that aspect, I don't think Laila deserves all the heat she receives. Yes, the dislike based on her selfishness, her attempts at murder and her idiocy is TOTALLY justified, but to hate her for anything else seems a bit strange to me.

Overall, I don't think the basis of Laila's antagonism should be based on how she refuses to be contained by society, but by her evidently compulsive and destructive personality.

Respect your opinion as well. Agree to disagree. Thanks for the thought provoking post.

(P.S After reading your next post, I realize where the difference of opinion stems from. I simply don't believe that our actions should place us in the rungs of a social ladder. And I don't accredit the fact that one exists to the women who are placed in it, but to the society that builds it.)

Thank you again for this post! It was really interesting to read your POV! 😃

Best,

Zee

But is a woman doing what she wants to do when she is subconsciously forced to succumb to patriarchal cultural values? Or is she simply a victim of patriarchy? Of course circumstances, emotions, past commitments, family, all of that plays a role in our actions, but when we let all of that dictate our choices/decisions in life how responsible or irresponsible are we for our choices/actions?

Hmm you're right, she is not responsible depending on some perspectives, and some perspectives will consider her responsible...so yes society's gender roles and guidelines are responsible for forcing women to behave a certain way, but no matter what society we go to there will always be specific gender roles and guidelines that people are identified with, so how will anyone ever decide what is right and what is wrong? I guess the answer is no one will. It's all about perspective.

Oh I'm sorry if I implied that Laila should be judged harshly because of her profession! Not at all! Laila's actions and decisions reflect her negative personality, not her profession! Her profession in no way dictates the kind of person she is. I was examining how sexual relations and dancing in a very conservative society can contribute to a person's mental reasoning and social conditioning.

I am really sorry if I have offended you in any way!

Thank you for the discussion.

P.S. I don't think our actions should determine where we stand on the social ladder but I think that unfortunately the reality is that society gives us a spot on the social ladder and often we cannot do anything about it - because society is dominant and seeks to control the masses.

Thank you for taking the time to provide your POV, it's wonderful and eye-opening to try to understand and see things from multiple perspectives. So thank you for that 😊

Edited by Zeeliciousxo - 11 years ago

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Zee

@aamir18

Rocker

+ 6

Posted: 11 years ago

#26

Let's agree to disagree since my hands are killing me from typing 😆 And no, I wasn't offended at all. I enjoyed reading through this thread. 😊

Originally posted by: Zeeliciousxo

But is a woman doing what she wants to do when she is subconsciously forced to succumb to patriarchal cultural values? Or is she simply a victim of patriarchy? Of course circumstances, emotions, past commitments, family, all of that plays a role in our actions, but when we let all of that dictate our choices/decisions in life how responsible or irresponsible are we for our choices/actions?

Hmm you're right, she is not responsible depending on some perspectives, and some perspectives will consider her responsible...so yes society's gender roles and guidelines are responsible for forcing women to behave a certain way, but no matter what society we go to there will always be specific gender roles and guidelines that people are identified with, so how will anyone ever decide what is right and what is wrong? I guess the answer is no one will. It's all about perspective.

Oh I'm sorry if I implied that Laila should be judged harshly because of her profession! Not at all! Laila's actions and decisions reflect her negative personality, not her profession! Her profession in no way dictates the kind of person she is. I was examining how sexual relations and dancing in a very conservative society can contribute to a person's mental reasoning and social conditioning.

I am really sorry if I have offended you in any way!

Thank you for the discussion.

Quote

squivi

@squivi

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#27

Originally posted by: Zeeliciousxo

Yes Laila should definitely have gone to jail, but it seems that in Indian dramas people barely go to jail for the crimes they committ 😆 Hmm yes a redemption may be difficult for her now, and knowing Indian dramas she probably won't get one, but I still think if the cvs do it right it can be shown and done beautifully. She can go through a huge life-altering experience and really change. I agree she doesn't deserve sympathy or understanding from us, but if Rudra has the potential to change, she should too. Yes Rudra always had a good heart and over here Laila seems to have a black heart, but sometimes even the blackest hearts can change...or maybe I am being too optimistic...

@bold...I actually don't get that part either 😆 Maybe Laila thinks she can ignite hate between Rudra and Paro and then she will sweep in to comfort Rudra and he will finally be hers 😆 The woman is delusional at best...

Yes I agree that Laila's actions are because of her individual personality, but society has definitely played a role in shaping her personality. Unlike Paro, Maithili, and Sunheri; Laila is at the bottom of the social ladder and so she is subject the most to patriarchal values. My analysis on Laila's profession was actually because people were already discussing it, so yes while I do think her profession is related to her life obviously, her personality is what mainly determines her actions - whether they are good or bad. And right now they are as bad as they can get.

You're 100% correct, but I just have no patience for Laila. She wore out her welcome for me and her potential redemption. I am enjoying (so far) her presence making Rudra speedily go towards Paro, like today. 😆

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Zeeliciousxo

@Zeeliciousxo

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#28

Originally posted by: squivi

You're 100% correct, but I just have no patience for Laila. She wore out her welcome for me and her potential redemption. I am enjoying (so far) her presence making Rudra speedily go towards Paro, like today. 😆

Truthfully, if Laila is not going to get a redemption track for sure, then I too have no patience for her and hope she leaves soon. Her track is irritating and all I want to do is FF her scenes...she is not convincing at all and I do not think she fits into RR anymore. I just hope that as long as she is in Parud's lives, she continues only to play cupid...I only want to see Rudra getting closer to Paro because of her presence...there is no way I can tolerate anything other than that...

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