Finally, some straightforward talk - Page 5

Originally posted by: naq5

This scene is one of the best scenes ive seen. They have called each other father daughter generally in a light hearted sense before. but this is the first time i think actually both felt it deeply in emotions. I dont know why but i mostly got a friendly / bro sis vibe from both of them to each other. But this time they really felt like father daughter. Even mini in this scene was longing for the fatherly love which she was getting. And this is a first after marriage.

And you have described HS feelings very aptly on this scene. He has been in minis situation before and understands her and there was a worry of loosing her too if she decides to go to ashok. A confusion weather he should expose her to the contents of the letter and ashok again or not. If he should just let her be and if the letter would pain her more. How i wish he had not taken babitas promise into consideration and just thought about mini. Kept her first really this time

its going to be so unfair to them if they separate on a bad note after this. Im so mad at babita for being so insecure & being so blind as to what her actions are causing.

Oh I got a father-daughter vibe from them in the GP scene also....but yes, otherwise after that HS-Mini went back into their 'friendly peers' zone and the father-daughter vibe was on the backburner. This scene did bring it back especially with the way he patted her head emotionally.

HS has been in Mini's situation before but he still never really managed to successfully communicate to Mini that he understands her pain on this topic like no one can.....his hesitation, his insecurity with whether or not Mini will accept him has held him back from managing to get her to open up to him.....so now he just yearns for her from a distance.

When Mini stopped being first, everything went off balance....I personally feel that HS found himself when he put Mini first.....it was his most honest self when he focused on her, confided in her, poured his heart out to her.....but he too was unable to balance once he shifted gears to Babita.

With mother-daughter, he's always been in a catch 22. But I do feel if he had managed to prioritize his equation with Mini and solidified that before trying to marry Babita, this family would have had a better chance of surviving.

Ab toh it's a mess....he is now scrambling to hold on to whatever he has with Babita since Mini ke saath toh he feels he lost the chance to become a father.

Originally posted by: deefy89

So what happened to feeling “free” after sending ashok back to London? Or loving HS so much that she “aches within her chest”? All these dialogues were said by babita no? The writing on this show is turning out to be atrocious. There is no continuity at all and it would have been better had it been a series of short stories because as it stands characters and situations are being changed to suit whatever the current storyline is and whatever message they’re trying to get across to the viewer. Somehow the writers seem incapable of sticking to the crux of the story, and the crux of characters whilst writing out different storylines. I don’t see why each and every time they’ve got to go to the extreme just to have a storyline play out, to the point where the character we’ve watched for over 200+ episodes becomes unrecognisable. It boggles the mind how this has all lead to babita wanting a trophy husband when it started off as a love marriage (from his side AND hers). It’s a bloody joke how they keep changing things to suit their current point. What was all the bs about her finally being able to move on etc when it’s all lead to proving a point to ashok (a person that isn’t even bothered or in the same country to see same said point)

Love isn't a static thing....it evolves over time and takes many shapes and forms.

Like I said in my first post in this thread, no one doubts Babita's love for HS....she does love him.....but it is equally true that she also can't overcome her spitefulness towards Ashok. She may have once said she felt "free" after sending him to London but it became obvious on the day of the wedding that she is hardly "free" of her Ashok baggage......getting married a second time triggered a lot of things inside her and brought to the surface emotions she otherwise suppressed.....all the bitterness she had compartmentalized still existed.

When she talked about how she loved HS, this was all before their relationship was defined or had a label....once it got a label, Babita's behavior changed because then her real baggage came into play. What she felt for HS in their "falling in love" period was new to her cuz she had never experienced that before....but she had experienced being married and being a newlywed before....that is why her Ashok related baggage came into play again I guess....she's always been emotionally stunted....this isn't something new.....the story has shown these personality traits of her from time to time.

Even a "love marriage" needs more understanding of each other before rushing into it, especially when a teenage kid is involved. HS-Babita didn't have that understanding of their reasons for getting married before rushing into it and that is why this is now a mess.

Inlieu

Lol. Are you seriously blaming HS and Babita for Bacheri crazy loony tune Mini. Have you even watched from the beginning where Minivwas rude and liar to boot etc. She was like this due to Ashok being a absent father and Babita was too busy playing the ideal daughter in law. She totally lost it when Ashok bought home Mita, and dashed her hopes of leaving and studying in London.

Its only when she came to HS Hawali that she started behaving a bit better but the underline mental problem and anger issuses are still there.

No she got them married but thanks to RS and co. Bacheri Mini is even worse now and its all self inflicted now.

Originally posted by: AreYaar

Love isn't a static thing....it evolves over time and takes many shapes and forms.

Like I said in my first post in this thread, no one doubts Babita's love for HS....she does love him.....but it is equally true that she also can't overcome her spitefulness towards Ashok. She may have once said she felt "free" after sending him to London but it became obvious on the day of the wedding that she is hardly "free" of her Ashok baggage......getting married a second time triggered a lot of things inside her and brought to the surface emotions she otherwise suppressed.....all the bitterness she had compartmentalized still existed.

When she talked about how she loved HS, this was all before their relationship was defined or had a label....once it got a label, Babita's behavior changed because then her real baggage came into play. What she felt for HS in their "falling in love" period was new to her cuz she had never experienced that before....but she had experienced being married and being a newlywed before....that is why her Ashok related baggage came into play again I guess....she's always been emotionally stunted....this isn't something new.....the story has shown these personality traits of her from time to time.

Even a "love marriage" needs more understanding of each other before rushing into it, especially when a teenage kid is involved. HS-Babita didn't have that understanding of their reasons for getting married before rushing into it and that is why this is now a mess.

Over time being the operative word, not weeks.

Back to what I said - the writing is atrocious and the writers appears to be constantly changing the essence of a character to suit their current point.

I do agree with you about the marriage but rushed. They had the perfect opportunity to date and get to know each other but the writers decided to go down the “whirlwind romance” route where everything’s pretty rushed. In reality, a marriage between 30 something year olds, especially a 2nd marriage is done with much more practicality.

Bold 2- this seems a bit of contradiction, as the type of character she is would have her love evolve within marriage, rather than in an undefined relationship. Let’s not forget she’s the type of women that thrives in tradition (of which marriage is to an extent). If the writing was done properly they were meant to show these issues of here show up in the initial love stage not in the marriage stage. Or so I think.

I jus hate how they keep ruining all of the characters, bar mini. I personally am really annoyed that I liked babita but I’ve been forced, because of idiotic writing, to dislike her

Originally posted by: deefy89

So what happened to feeling “free” after sending ashok back to London? Or loving HS so much that she “aches within her chest”? All these dialogues were said by babita no? The writing on this show is turning out to be atrocious. There is no continuity at all and it would have been better had it been a series of short stories because as it stands characters and situations are being changed to suit whatever the current storyline is and whatever message they’re trying to get across to the viewer. Somehow the writers seem incapable of sticking to the crux of the story, and the crux of characters whilst writing out different storylines. I don’t see why each and every time they’ve got to go to the extreme just to have a storyline play out, to the point where the character we’ve watched for over 200+ episodes becomes unrecognisable. It boggles the mind how this has all lead to babita wanting a trophy husband when it started off as a love marriage (from his side AND hers). It’s a bloody joke how they keep changing things to suit their current point. What was all the bs about her finally being able to move on etc when it’s all lead to proving a point to ashok (a person that isn’t even bothered or in the same country to see same said point)

Writers have completely ruined the essence of the show and Babita's character.

In no way do I think writers initially planned to show this side of Babita when the marriage was fixed. Babita's character was doing fine and was showing growth up until the Imarti track. It seems like it has been an abrupt decision to change the storyline. Everything could have been shown in a nuanced manner. Babita not being able to balance between the two relationship, her insecurities and scars of previous marriage and everything could have been shown in a better manner. The whole loosing identity bit seems really forced at this point in the storyline because even though Mini was the reason for Babita to experience that independent life, she did taste independence and freedom and enjoyed it. Current Babita doesn't make sense whatsoever. And I don't for one second believe she did all that in her spitefulness towards Ashok. That might have initially been her driving factor as she did confess this to NB that she wants to show to Ashok that she can do without him. However, after experiencing the outside working world, harassment at the job, it was a big motivating factor for her to get success and become financially independent through PB. The whole proving to Ashok ended once she did get success... also when she stood up for Meeta, forgave Meeta and sent Ashok away. When Ashok was being sent to jail for abusing Meeta, she was more worried for HS... Ashok wasn't even on her mind. Babita's love for HS was not to spite Ashok. The Babita that existed pre Imarti track wouldn't have said all that she said to Mini. That Babita would have not given up on her business and independence because she found love or whatever. She might have had difficulty balancing and trying to keep focus on everything but she wouldn't have given up. She has shown extreme resilience and courage when she was in the worst phase of her life. This is the abrupt change in the storyline and her character arc.

Writers have completely changed the core storyline and undid everything to suit their current narrative. The pushing Mini to such an extent that she goes away from her mother forever is so forced, its not even funny. No mother, not even a mother like Babita would do this to her daughter. I don't buy the BS they are trying to show with the current storyline.

I am really exhausted of discussing this again and again so I am gonna stop 😆

Originally posted by: deefy89

Bold 2- this seems a bit of contradiction, as the type of character she is would have her love evolve within marriage, rather than in an undefined relationship. Let’s not forget she’s the type of women that thrives in tradition (of which marriage is to an extent). If the writing was done properly they were meant to show these issues of here show up in the initial love stage not in the marriage stage. Or so I think.

I jus hate how they keep ruining all of the characters, bar mini. I personally am really annoyed that I liked babita but I’ve been forced, because of idiotic writing, to dislike her

Not really. She fundamentally lacked the understanding of love after marriage. That is why this mess. Her life has been muddled by labels for 17 years....she was married off young, she thought what she experienced after marriage was love and 17 years later she felt confused by her understanding of love being proven wrong.....which is why when she got married again, she still struggled with the same concept.

Babita was never the typical conservative woman either.....hence the reason why she never fell into any bracket.....she wasn't the simple conservative woman who genuinely wanted to only worship her husband all her life....she only did it cuz she thought that was expected of her......on the flip side, she's not a liberal woman either who can fully embrace independence and love in a more empowered form.....she's confused somewhere in the middle.....mainly because she never managed to truly know herself. There were flashes of it in the middle where it seemed she was possibly coming around to finding herself....but she never ultimately did.

Without knowing herself first, she was bound to not know how to manage other relationships either....whether it was a second marriage or her grown daughter.

Originally posted by: AreYaar

Just finished making these....here you go.

Some superb acting from AD in this scene....and so many undercurrents to read. What was HS thinking as he thought back to the contents of the letter and watched Mini? Did he feel the pain behind her smile as he thought about the lines from the letter where Ashok spoke of the fact that hating him all this time has left a world of hurt inside Mini too......or was HS again briefly feeling overcome by those fatherly emotions that Mini evokes in him? It felt like a mix of the two....he felt for the child who's father had hurt her.....and he again wished, despite himself, that he could be the father to her that he wanted to be.

I was so touched by the bit when he simply admits that just watching her made him emotional just like that...."jee bhar gaya mhaara"....that exchange between them said so much of what they know is between them and yet somehow is unable to reach its culmination.

Mini knows he cares a lot for her.....she's read the emotions in his eyes many times and she could in this scene also......but who knows how the chips will fall once the letter rears its head.

Still, a touching scene. They've left behind a good body of work to cherish.

This was indeed a brilliant piece of acting by Aniruddh.

I think he was feeling a mix of things: seeing an opportunity for Minnie to possibly get the kind of closure he never got regarding the daddy issues. He understood her situation very well, having been there himself but at the same time was afraid the letter could perhaps hurt her further or worse still take her away from them, from him especially. If she did indeed decide to go to Ashok, there was nothing he could do to stop her. She would have Babita and Ashok in her life, where would that leave him? The look in his eyes said it all as he remembered Ashok's words about having the right to talk to Minnie and stay in touch with her, a right which he cannot hope to have but would love more than anything else.

He also came to terms with the fact that he would never stop wanting to be Minnie's father no matter what they had mutually decided, that just being her Hanuman Uncle the guide/mentor/friend, would never be enough for him. He would always want more and always yearn for that.

Yes, I really loved the bit where he puts his hand on her head - it said so much and I too loved how he admitted that he became emotional. Minnie is intelligent enough to know that he loves her but I think what both of them are missing, especially HS, is that he hasn't articulated that he wants to be her father, that his heart still yearns for that parental bond with her. Most importantly, that not having that right is what is causing him pain. He is wise enough to accept it but that doesn't mean he doesn't stop feeling hurt. I think over time this feeling of his will just become worse. I don't think he can ever fully accept being just her mother's husband.

Ashok kuch na kar ke bhi baap banne ka haq rakhta hai, aur HS apni jaan bhi dega VB ke liye to bhi woh uska baap banne ka haq nahin pa sakega.

That scene had such an impending doom kind of feel. One would hope that Minnie would manage to let her heart win out and remember all their shared experiences so that she would not leave HS' life for good, and recognize that she too needs him, but with the way the story is going, who knows? I had hoped that his reasons for not giving her the letter would be selfish, that he would do it out of his own insecurity and not just because of Babita but let's see.

The dynamics in this scene were just wonderful but at the same time pointed out to us of what could have been. Sigh...

Thank you for posting the gifs, dear. The last one especially, where Minnie seems content and at peace juxtaposes beautifully with the angst and waves of emotions washing over HS. Superlative! Reminds me why I fell for this show and their bond in the first place.

I know the director talked about love remaining namukammal but in many ways that applies to all forms of love and bonds in life. We may hope and wish for it but sometimes our scars, fears, and insecurities prevent us from reaching out to embrace what can truly and rightfully be ours. The way HS hugged her and kissed her forehead in this scene had a sense of finality to it. Pierced my heart, to be honest.

Originally posted by: guddi01

Inlieu

Lol. Are you seriously blaming HS and Babita for Bacheri crazy loony tune Mini. Have you even watched from the beginning where Minivwas rude and liar to boot etc. She was like this due to Ashok being a absent father and Babita was too busy playing the ideal daughter in law. She totally lost it when Ashok bought home Mita, and dashed her hopes of leaving and studying in London.

Its only when she came to HS Hawali that she started behaving a bit better but the underline mental problem and anger issuses are still there.

No she got them married but thanks to RS and co. Bacheri Mini is even worse now and its all self inflicted now.

I am not blaming anyone. All I am saying is that no matter what Minnie does or doesn't, HS and Babita, even in their own relationship should take responsibility for their actions. There have been lots of fights between them, some nastier than others, which have had an impact on Minnie.

I don't want to go into details but as co-parents, I would expect them to also think about their family dynamics long-term. Either they haven't or the CVs haven't shown us this. In both cases, it comes across as though they have gotten caught up in the trappings of marriage as opposed to exploring its essence.

Originally posted by: LoveInAutumn26

Writers have completely ruined the essence of the show and Babita's character.

In no way do I think writers initially planned to show this side of Babita when the marriage was fixed. Babita's character was doing fine and was showing growth up until the Imarti track. It seems like it has been an abrupt decision to change the storyline. Everything could have been shown in a nuanced manner. Babita not being able to balance between the two relationship, her insecurities and scars of previous marriage and everything could have been shown in a better manner. The whole loosing identity bit seems really forced at this point in the storyline because even though Mini was the reason for Babita to experience that independent life, she did taste independence and freedom and enjoyed it. Current Babita doesn't make sense whatsoever. And I don't for one second believe she did all that in her spitefulness towards Ashok. That might have initially been her driving factor as she did confess this to NB that she wants to show to Ashok that she can do without him. However, after experiencing the outside working world, harassment at the job, it was a big motivating factor for her to get success and become financially independent through PB. The whole proving to Ashok ended once she did get success... also when she stood up for Meeta, forgave Meeta and sent Ashok away. When Ashok was being sent to jail for abusing Meeta, she was more worried for HS... Ashok wasn't even on her mind. Babita's love for HS was not to spite Ashok. The Babita that existed pre Imarti track wouldn't have said all that she said to Mini. That Babita would have not given up on her business and independence because she found love or whatever. She might have had difficulty balancing and trying to keep focus on everything but she wouldn't have given up. She has shown extreme resilience and courage when she was in the worst phase of her life. This is the abrupt change in the storyline and her character arc.

Writers have completely changed the core storyline and undid everything to suit their current narrative. The pushing Mini to such an extent that she goes away from her mother forever is so forced, its not even funny. No mother, not even a mother like Babita would do this to her daughter. I don't buy the BS they are trying to show with the current storyline.

I am really exhausted of discussing this again and again so I am gonna stop 😆

I agree it’s all since imarti, and since then it does feel like how the story played out was not planned because it’s so different to what it was when it started (not in a good way) and they’ve not even achieved the emancipation that was initially intended, because as some point (perhaps because of mini’s popularity) the focus switched to her without making it all gel with the existing storyline. Since then, they’ve been almost forcing the viewer to feel their message rather than gracefully writing so that it happens naturally. Even the older posts on twitter always seemed to centre around the “woman” (babita) and then at some point they’ve started pushing the child’s perspective without closure on where they’d started. I believe they could have successfully shown both points of view actually and didn’t have to choose one or the other. I don’t even know how they’re going to write mini going away from babita because the mini they’ve shown so far would never do that in a million years and would sooner crush her own dreams (as she’s done before) than put her mother second, let alone leave her and move to another country. Even since deciding to cut the 2 actors I don’t believe they’ve got to do a 360 on their characters.

Ps I have wondered this for a while now... at some point did they change writers? Anyone heard of anything like that??? So hard believe the same writers who created this concept with the beautiful dialogues are now responsible for this car crash it’s turning into

Originally posted by: AreYaar

Oh I got a father-daughter vibe from them in the GP scene also....but yes, otherwise after that HS-Mini went back into their 'friendly peers' zone and the father-daughter vibe was on the backburner. This scene did bring it back especially with the way he patted her head emotionally.

HS has been in Mini's situation before but he still never really managed to successfully communicate to Mini that he understands her pain on this topic like no one can.....his hesitation, his insecurity with whether or not Mini will accept him has held him back from managing to get her to open up to him.....so now he just yearns for her from a distance.

When Mini stopped being first, everything went off balance....I personally feel that HS found himself when he put Mini first.....it was his most honest self when he focused on her, confided in her, poured his heart out to her.....but he too was unable to balance once he shifted gears to Babita.

With mother-daughter, he's always been in a catch 22. But I do feel if he had managed to prioritize his equation with Mini and solidified that before trying to marry Babita, this family would have had a better chance of surviving.

Ab toh it's a mess....he is now scrambling to hold on to whatever he has with Babita since Mini ke saath toh he feels he lost the chance to become a father.

@bold word... I think in trying to conform to whatever label, he lost out on the organic development of their bond that had formed over the months. I feel terrible for him. I know he's made mistakes but were they so severe that he gets no second chance to be her father, even if it takes time?

Sometimes I think back to what he told Babita during the depression track, that he had become attached to Minnie very quickly. His love for her was always pure but I think it hadn't been in his or Minnie's life long enough before there was pressure on both of them.

I hate that he yearns for her from a distance, and I also hate that Minnie has unfortunately not yet realized what he means to her, because I do think she hasn't introspected enough to realize she does want a father. If/when she sees things clearly, he would be the one she would love to see in that role.

Frankly, it would take just one heart-to-heart like they used to have 'back in the day' so they can start to open up to each other again slowly. They are still very much attuned to each other's emotions on many levels but doubts and insecurities have clouded things. What a shame things had to come to this.

If I didn't know that Minnie was planning to leave, I'd probably console myself thinking that over the years they would eventually get to the point they were meant to be at, but now I don't see that happening. Yes, she will get the much needed space and independence she has craved but her leaving at such a delicate moment in their lives means that they would have missed out solidifying their bond. The distance and time apart will shove them back to their respective corners and I don't see them staying emotionally as close as they were in the past, especially if she leaves with bitterness.

I know what the writers are trying to show, but life should not be this cruel.