Symbolism-Garuds dance with vegetative Maya - Page 4

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shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#31
WOW here goes my Shymaladi with her wisdom👏👏👏. Shymaladi actually it was the height of irritation, anger I felt at Rudra and that disgusting scene of Garud's dancing around Maya that made me think why such a thing in a strong story like MK and you know my nature till I don't get answer I don't stop 😆😆😆 analyzing.
It is not the first time I am seeing this. Same thing happened in EHT also. See Indian writers touch mythology and try to bring it to contemporary conditions. In EHT also the concept of Durga was bought to contemporary terms. But then they fail to convey things in the right manner. It is left to the viewer to comphrehend, whereas they could insert some dialogues to highlight the significance of what they are trying to show. Since I have a craze for mythology I will go and dig out things and put posts here on what I found out or how I connected. But as you rightly said the script, direction and the performer should convey it in the right sense to any intelligent viewer, in a thought provoking manner.
Sometimes I feel it is because of this lopsided representations Indian mythology and ancient knowledge does not get the value it deserves.
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#32
Shruthi, my very dear girl,

But that is just it, he is not really doing what you think he is doing. As I had asked above, where has he touched upon or explored the concept of Maya in his script so far? In DKDM, he had Mahadev explain every one of the difficult, abstract concepts to be put across. Who has even tried to do so here?

Why did he not use Maimuyi for this purpose? She was always full of highly philosophical concepts; her expressions were earthy and rustic, but they often held deep meaning, which is more than one could say of Daadi for all her rhetoric.But he did not.

So now, if you say that he has risked a lot, I would say that he has not done any such thing. He has left the viewer to interpret Maya, and her significance, for Rudra and for the plot of what is after all a thriller, the way the viewer wants to. It is like a child's colouring book, he can fill them in as he likes. Bright, simple shades, or delicate, mixed hues.

You have an invariably complex understanding of things, but others, even intelligent viewers, may not, and that is not their fault. In fact, I begin to doubt if Utkarsh himself wanted Mahakumbh to be a treatise on maaya and moh. He is enjoying himself with a riproaring thriller, with some esoteric, philosophical undertones thrown in, that is all. His visualisation of the nagas and of Balivesh proves this.

But I for one love your takes on this aspect, so keep it up, my dear!👏 I am not going to exclaim, like the child in The Emperor's New Clothes, "But he has nothing on at all!'. For your truth, and your interpretation, are as valid as any other, and they are also a great deal more interesting.

Shyamala Di

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@annu yes script has problem, actress of course has problem, direction not sure but there is problem with viewer's also. Because as I said Maya is a very deep subject which is used extensively in Indian mythology, so to understand what the script is trying to paint, knowledge of Indian mythology is needed and the contexts in which illusion or Maya is used also is needed. To understand some finer points of MK some real deep delving to Indian mythology and ancient Indian texts is required. That is why I love MK also because whenever I cant connect certain things I have gone back to search, to read certain aspects especially Shiv-Sakthi and its various representations. And that search has been fruitful also. Indian mythology has been my favorite subject from childhood and through MK I started to know more about the representations and hidden meanings.No other show has made me do such research on ancient India in the near future.

What I said was even though with all its bloopers and limitations it is the first time I have seen such a subject as Maya explored deeply in a TV serial. It is very difficult to portray or present Maya in a believable manner in any script and I don't know how UN took this much risk with it.

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#33
My dear Annu,

🤗🤗🤗

Shyamala Di


Originally posted by: annu123.happy

Superb , beautiful , astonishing ,out of the world post by Shymala di . This is the best post in India forum for me since di has effectively conveyed what I was trying to do from the last 2 hrs . This is the practical , real picture of Maya which I had in mind . When sc ended i became a huge fan of gautam unconditionally and jennifer with some reservations . It seems when mk ends , i will become a huge fan of shyamala di 😉 without resevations 😆.

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#34
As for your last lines, Shruthi, you are absolutely right. Many writers - not Utkarsh, though as I noted above, he should have done more here - dabble in mythology as window dressing for what is at the bottom a pedestrian script,and in the process, our philosophical concepts are over-simplified and diluted. This is really irresponsible of them, but what can one do?

Shyamala Di

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

WOW here goes my Shymaladi with her wisdom👏👏👏. Shymaladi actually it was the height of irritation, anger I felt at Rudra and that disgusting scene of Garud's dancing around Maya that made me think why such a thing in a strong story like MK and you know my nature till I don't get answer I don't stop 😆😆😆 analyzing.

It is not the first time I am seeing this. Same thing happened in EHT also. See Indian writers touch mythology and try to bring it to contemporary conditions. In EHT also the concept of Durga was bought to contemporary terms. But then they fail to convey things in the right manner.

It is left to the viewer to comphrehend, whereas they could insert some dialogues to highlight the significance of what they are trying to show. Since I have a craze for mythology I will go and dig out things and put posts here on what I found out or how I connected. But as you rightly said the script, direction and the performer should convey it in the right sense to any intelligent viewer, in a thought provoking manner.
Sometimes I feel it is because of this lopsided representations Indian mythology and ancient knowledge does not get the value it deserves.

pasumarthisa thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#35
Shyamala ji
Superb analysis. You have put to rest all other arguments. Audience over-analyzes where there is not much to. Attributing Maya to 'maaya' etc or the dance to it is just that.
MrsAkyurek thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#36

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Annu and Shruthi,

Where does the fault lie? I would say with everyone, but mainly with the writer.

The kind of maya that Shruti is visualising with such sureness of touch and perception needs both a very gifted writer and an even better communicator to put it across to even an intelligent, non-TRP auntie (why not uncle? I am sure there are some out there, in hiding!😉).

A film or a TV serial is not like an abstract painting, which can say different things to different viewers, or nothing at all, and get away with it. In fact, the more impenetrable its meaning, the better it will very likely sell!😉 But this medium is different.

If Utkarsh had seen Maya the girl as representing maya the universal illusion, which can either elevate Rudra or pull him down, depending on how he handles it, this is not how she should have been shown. As a 111% perfect bahu evam poutravadhu for Ganga and Daadi, full of all the traditional virtues, including all that unbelievably comic seva of the old ladies in the Ashram. In fact, her scenes with both Daadi and Ganga could have been inserted seamlessly into a saas-bahu serial, with the sole novelty that the parsaas and the poutravadhu . are on the same side!😉

Nor is there any explanation of WHY Rudra falls for her, suddenly and totally, like a sack of coals tumbling down the steps to the cellar😉. They need him to do so - and to do so with increasing vehemence, which was equally incomprehensible - and so he did, that was all.

Shyamala aunty, (I am a 90s kid and I hope I can call you aunty😳) I agree to some extent with this. We have been seeing Rudra-Maya in 40+ episodes and yet, we fail to recognize why Rudra has fallen hook, line and sinker for Maya. I don't even mind the WHY aspect to it because when I saw the Shiva-Ganga reunion scene, despite it being very subtle and understated for a couple who are meeting after 25 years, it tells their back story precisely just through their body language - That they must have spent around 6 years of marital bliss before everything falls apart on that fateful day, YET the couple have led a happy life even with the conflict of interest regarding the Amrit. Even when I observe random people, I look at their body language and analyze what sort of a person he or she is, what kind of a relationship they might be having and the like. Creepy as it may sound, but you get what I mean? I do not see that between Rudra and Maya. The body language doesn't show the extent to which Rudra has been taken in by Maya and vice versa. That is where the audience fails to connect with the love story.

This makes it even more difficult for the average viewer to grasp anything of the esoteric hidden meanings that are said to be there.

Where was there even a sotto voce explanation that Maya was not just any girl with irritating sidelong glances, but the mohmaaya of our philosophical treatises? Bar that one confusion between Shiva's reference to maaya, and Rudra's misunderstanding him as meaning Maya the girl, there has not been a single line anywhere till now guiding the viewer to this high faluting concept of Maya as maaya.

Utkarsh cannot expect all the viewers to have a Shruthi on tap, can he? It is his business to make sure that whatever he wants to convey on this matter is duly put across in a manner that any reasonably intelligent viewer can readily grasp it. This has simply not been done, and if very few get what he really means, he has no one to blame but himself.

In the latest version of the Mahabharata, the writers had taken care to bridge this gap thru long explanatory discourses by Lord Krishna. This was done, principally, for Bhishma, Drona, and Karna, but there were any number of mini-pravachans by Krishna at various other points of the narrative, so that no one, neither the characters, nor the viewers, had any excuses for going off track.

There has been nothing of the kind here, and it is the writer's fault that he has not found some way to do it without looking odd or out of place.

No one, not even Daadi, has been shown to have any understanding of Maya except the literal one, of a perfect bride for Rudra. Not even Shiva, who has not uttered a word more on the maaya he was referring to earlier, and linking that up with this Maya. So how can the viewer be expected to grasp this esoteric concept on her/his own?

Like you have mentioned, even I don't think UN is making parallels with the Universal Illusion, so to speak, at least not the concept in its entirety, for I feel Maya herself was living a life of denial until her nanu and mamas used her as a bait to bring Rudra to Prayag. She has lived a life of an orphan in a patriarchial set-up for most of her life, and I am sure the ride hasn't been a good one for her. UN does give the viewer reasons to love or empathize with her but it doesn't make any difference because of the lackluster and inconsistent performance from the actress. The actress is still raw and needs to work A LOT on getting the nuances right. I like Maya as a character: she is very innocent, has a kind-heart, can stand up for herself, put her loved ones over her own self, has a mind of her own. At least she doesn't shy away from her duties and mope around like what Rudra has been doing (She has no idea about this Amrit business yet).

Finally, it is no use trying make a silk purse out of a sow's ear (I have never understood why it has to be a sow's ear😉). To play Maya as more than a person,but as illusion, takes an exceptionally gifted actress, and I doubt if any of the currently available candidates could do it. But one need not have settled for one who seems to specialise in playing a wilting lily and/or a dying duck. I watch this Maya onscreen, and all of Shruthi's delicate concepts are washed away on a swelling tide of irritation. And I am NOT a TRP-auntie!

Yes, absolutely! Oh, there are quite a few actresses who can match GR😳

If the writer cannot lead even a viewer like me into what he wants to put across, the fault is not mine, it is his. And if his TRPs fall thru the bottom, it is not because the viewers are all TRP-aunties. It is because he could not carry even the niche viewers with him. And now he is trying to titillate God knows who with abominably crude violence. He needs a sound spanking!😉

Shyamala Di


sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#37
Thank you so much, my dear Santhi. I am glad we are on the same page on this one. Sometimes, our dissertations on the esoteric aspects of Mahakumbh, with myself being a main culprit😉, remind me of the theses written by literature students on Pride and Prejudice, which are invariably longer than the book!

Maya is just an irritating female that we are stuck with, while the imperious, wonderfully portrayed Daadi is gone. But she has a splendid swansong.

Shyamala


Originally posted by: pasumarthisa

Shyamala ji

Superb analysis. You have put to rest all other arguments. Audience over-analyzes where there is not much to. Attributing Maya to 'maaya' etc or the dance to it is just that.

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#38
Of course, my fellow Potterite, you may call me Aunty.

In fact, most of those opting for Di too should, for the most part, qualify for the choice of Aunty in terms of their ages and mine, but if they want Di, I am ok with it!😉

By the way, what is your name, if you do not mind? I like, as you would have seen by now,to address my correspondents by name.

My supplementary comments below are in red.

Shyamala Aunty


Edited by sashashyam - 10 years ago
pasumarthisa thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#39

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Thank you so much, my dear Santhi. I am glad we are on the same page on this one. Sometimes, our dissertations on the esoteric aspects of Mahakumbh, with myself being a main culprit😉, remind me of the theses written by literature students on Pride and Prejudice, which are invariably longer than the book!

Maya is just an irritating female that we are stuck with, while the imperious, wonderfully portrayed Daadi is gone. But she has a splendid swansong.

Shyamala



Shyamala ji, we all do that. We analyze and we predict(I do). You only analyze the previous episodes. Its fun. Rest of us sometimes go further. We have been close to suggesting that the tracks should have gone one particular way or other.
seedhibaat thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#40
Shyamalaji
This is superb post. Agree with your interpretation on Maya.
Maya has been a weak Link from day one for me. The character written is proving maya and the portrayal has achieved high graph of irritation.
Woh hai Maya, Rudra par Bura Saaya, Stayed in evil's Chatrachaaya, and doesnt deserve any Daya.
Writersahab ab batao Kya khoya kya paaya?😛

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