{| Doubts and Discussions about Mahabharata - 2 |}

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Rehanism

@Rehanism

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#631

Can anyone tell what Bandhaki exactly means?

In Bengali (and presumably Hindi too) bandhak means bonded. It may be translated as imprisoned/hostage/enslaved. So bandhaki may mean slave girl - how is that interpreted as prostitute? One theory of mine is that it may refer to women who were captured by soldiers/plunderers and sold in market to new masters as slaves. Likewise Draupadi was gambled away by her husband to Duryodhan.

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AnuMP

@AnuMP

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#632

Originally posted by: Aradhana87
in ⭐️b rukmi says that krishna and rukmini will get seperated... radha and krishna get seperated not rukmini and krishna right..?

I have the same question

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ananyacool

@ananyacool

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#633

Originally posted by: Rehanism
Can anyone tell what Bandhaki exactly means?

In Bengali (and presumably Hindi too) bandhak means bonded. It may be translated as imprisoned/hostage/enslaved. So bandhaki may mean slave girl - how is that interpreted as prostitute? One theory of mine is that it may refer to women who were captured by soldiers/plunderers and sold in market to new masters as slaves. Likewise Draupadi was gambled away by her husband to Duryodhan.

Bandhaki means a bonded slave who doesn't have any (human) rights ; even the right to protect herself; i.e she can be a sexual slave also.

There are many meanings to it scholars have directly translated it as a 'wh**e' . Draupadi herself mentions that Kauravas wanted to 'enjoy' her as a slave (vana parva, when Krishna comes to meet them) Even Dhrit is ecstatic, he keeps asking Vidur often whether Drau has been won or not and that's why Bhima is very unforgiving and rude to Dhrit even after the war.

In dyuta episode we find Karna already declaring Drau as a 'Bandhaki' he even goes to say that it is by practice only one man should be taken by a woman as husband but Drau had FIVE! So he is a 'Bandhaki' ( here he means she is an unchaste woman)

In those days the women of losing party would legally marry the victor it was not common to insult women of losing party or selling them in open markets, its only in the later Vedic and medieval period that status of women deteriorated

Edited by ananyacool - 11 years ago

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Radhika

@ashne

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#634

Originally posted by: Rehanism
Can anyone tell what Bandhaki exactly means?

In Bengali (and presumably Hindi too) bandhak means bonded. It may be translated as imprisoned/hostage/enslaved. So bandhaki may mean slave girl - how is that interpreted as prostitute? One theory of mine is that it may refer to women who were captured by soldiers/plunderers and sold in market to new masters as slaves. Likewise Draupadi was gambled away by her husband to Duryodhan.

Originally posted by: ananyacool

Bandhaki means a bonded slave who doesn't have any (human) rights ; even the right to protect herself; i.e she can be a sexual slave also.

There are many meanings to it scholars have directly translated it as a 'wh**e' . Draupadi herself mentions that Kauravas wanted to 'enjoy' her as a slave (vana parva, when Krishna comes to meet them) Even Dhrit is ecstatic, he keeps asking Vidur often whether Drau has been won or not and that's why Bhima is very unforgiving and rude to Dhrit even after the war.

In dyuta episode we find Karna already declaring Drau as a 'Bandhaki' he even goes to say that it is by practice only one man should be taken by a woman as husband but Drau had FIVE! So he is a 'Bandhaki' ( here he means she is an unchaste woman)

In those days the women of losing party would legally marry the victor it was not common to insult women of losing party or selling them in open markets, its only in the later Vedic and medieval period that status of women deteriorated

So the 'Raja Harishchadra' story (selling his wife in open market) happens later in dwapar yug?

Why was Dhrit so happy about Drau being a slave? Enjoying his sons success over the Pandavas and their Kingdom, is one thing - but why Drau - Is it because of all the embellished statements Dury made to him after his visit to Indraprastha?

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ananyacool

@ananyacool

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#635

Originally posted by: ashne

So the 'Raja Harishchadra' story (selling his wife in open market) happens later in dwapar yug?

Why was Dhrit so happy about Drau being a slave? Enjoying his sons success over the Pandavas and their Kingdom, is one thing - but why Drau - Is it because of all the embellished statements Dury made to him after his visit to Indraprastha?

The story of Harishchandra is in Satyayuga not in Dwapar he is the ancestor of Ram Daasharathi

He doesn't sell his wife as a 'Bandhaki' they seek employment in an open market so that his wife can work as a domestic servant and the money got from it can be paid to Vishwamitra .

He himself takes the job in a crematorium.

In Virat parva Drau is also seeking employment in an open market saying she is an expert as sairandhri and if anyone wanted to employ her? The people seeing a beautiful woman,no one feels that they are capable of employing her so she is advised to seek work with queen Sudeshna.

Coming to Drau as a slave , Dhrit thought he too might have access to her for pleasure since she is their property.

Dury hated everything and everybody associated with Pandavas so the aim of dyuta was not just to get wealth and property of Pandavas but also to reduce their social status so that they are don't raise their head up again to challenge the kauravas.

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Radhika

@ashne

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#636

Originally posted by: ashne

So the 'Raja Harishchadra' story (selling his wife in open market) happens later in dwapar yug?

Why was Dhrit so happy about Drau being a slave? Enjoying his sons success over the Pandavas and their Kingdom, is one thing - but why Drau - Is it because of all the embellished statements Dury made to him after his visit to Indraprastha?

Originally posted by: ananyacool

The story of Harishchandra is in Satyayuga not in Dwapar he is the ancestor of Ram Daasharathi
He doesn't sell his wife as a 'Bandhaki' they seek employment in an open market so that his wife can work as a domestic servant and the money got from it can be paid to Vishwamitra .

He himself takes the job in a crematorium.

In Virat parva Drau is also seeking employment in an open market saying she is an expert as sairandhri and if anyone wanted to employ her? The people seeing a beautiful woman,no one feels that they are capable of employing her so she is advised to seek work with queen Sudeshna.

Coming to Drau as a slave , Dhrit thought he too might have access to her for pleasure since she is their property.

Dury hated everything and everybody associated with Pandavas so the aim of dyuta was not just to get wealth and property of Pandavas but also to reduce their social status so that they are don't raise their head up again to challenge the kauravas.

Thanks, The version I have read about Harishchandra mentions him selling his wife and son into bondage, to collect money to give sage vishwamitra.

I didn't know Drau sought employment in an open market 😕. Just assumed, she directly went to SUdeshna seeking employment.

Bold - 😲 Here again I assumed that he was just curious to know the proceedings of the game. Well in this case, he deserved everything he got and much more.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 11 years ago

#637

Originally posted by: ananyacool
Death of Kripa the senior kulguru is mentioned in Shanti parva There's a story within a story: Bhishma tells Yudhi about the death of Kripa and Yudhi is like "oh yes I remember I was in exile then" Kripa the warrior who died in the war is mentioned in Anushasan parva; so there is another Kripa in Sauptika ?!!😒

There are scholars who believe that Anushasana parva is a later addition but whoever wrote Anushasana and or added it as a part of epic must be having some memory of the war and mentions Kripa the warrior's death; then how much of credibility should be given to Sauptika? There is another Kripa fighting along with Ashwatthama

[I referred MBH of Devnagri script Geeta press edition for info on different Kripas ]

In Sauptika, Kripa along w/ Kritavarma prevent the Pandava rank & file soldiers from escaping, while Ashwatthama massacres all the princes/kings - Dhrishtadyumna, Shikhandi, Yudhamanu, Uttamaujas, Draupadi's sons, et al.

About Draupadi's grandsons that you wrote, is that there in Vyasa, or in other derivative works written later?

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 11 years ago

#638

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Pandu's prowess seems to be exaggerated in this work if he's described as overshadowing Jarasandha. Otherwise Hastinapur would have been a major ally of Mathura (as in Ugrasena/Vasudeva) when they were threatened following Kansa's death. Krishna for instance noted the need to evacuate his entire clan to Dwarka, which would have been needless had Pandu been around. RS-SK does depict Dhritarashtra as declining to help the Yadavas.

Pandu's digvijaya had to be limited in area to the kingdoms around Hastinapur - maybe starting from Gandhara and going up to Kashi. There is no way he could have subdued Jarasandha, who besides being unmatched had a powerful alliance behind him - Shalva, Rukmi, (later) Sishupala, Paundrak, Dantavatra, Vinda/Anuvinda and so on. That alliance would have crushed Pandu - in fact, it was the most likely reason that Krishna evacuated Mathura, surrounded as it was by enemies.

Originally posted by: ananyacool
Pandu's prowess is not exaggerated, he was indeed a great archer and is called as a Vasava and Para puranjaya ( Indra, conqueror of hostile cities) Pandu ruled for a short period of time and within that time he does subdue a lot of kings.
There's a yavana king who Pandu is not able to conquer and that is done by Arjun in his first digvijaya.

Dhritarashtra mentions ( in sabha parva) that Pandavas have carried forward Pandu's legacy and have won more than what Hastinapur has lost in his (Pandu's) absence.

All that may be true, but it does not demonstrate that Pandu was superior to Jarasandha, among others. Had Jarasandha been that weak, Krishna would have been okay w/ the Pandavas conducting a military campaign against him. Instead, he decided to make it a duel, since that was the only way Jarasandha could be defeated.

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ananyacool

@ananyacool

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#639

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

All that may be true, but it does not demonstrate that Pandu was superior to Jarasandha, among others. Had Jarasandha been that weak, Krishna would have been okay w/ the Pandavas conducting a military campaign against him. Instead, he decided to make it a duel, since that was the only way Jarasandha could be defeated.

Vrish bhai , its hard to convince you, isn't it?😛

Pandu's digvijaya consists of his win over Anga, Kashi, Kosala, Videha, Pundra, Suhma,Kalinga, Magadha, Pragjyotishpur . His win is compared to wins of his ancestors Kuru and Bharata . He is supposed to have brought immense wealth, probably Kuntibhoja and Madra were spared because of his alliance in marriage.

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ananyacool

@ananyacool

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#640

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

In Sauptika, Kripa along w/ Kritavarma prevent the Pandava rank & file soldiers from escaping, while Ashwatthama massacres all the princes/kings - Dhrishtadyumna, Shikhandi, Yudhamanu, Uttamaujas, Draupadi's sons, et al.

About Draupadi's grandsons that you wrote, is that there in Vyasa, or in other derivative works written later?

Sons of Krishnaa (Draupadi) find mentions in Agni,Vayu, Skanda,Matsya, Garuda Puranas, Shatapatha, Aitereya, Kaushitaki Brahmanas; Shinkhandi and Uttamauja is also mentioned in these brahmanas.

My point is that unlike the serials which show sons of Drau dying as bachelors is not true, neither she loses all her kin.

Yudhi leaves a large empire behind and it is distributed among his grandsons including Ghatu . Just like Ram did , dividing his kingdom among sons and nephews.

Pandava grandsons are joint rulers, there's no special treatment of Parikshit ; he and his cousin Paushya ( son of Sutasoma) rule Asandivat and Indraprasth.

Paushya is in the epic, there's Paushya parva

Epic mentions Vajra taking over Indraprasth but the puranas state that Vajra shifts to Mathura and revives it and the behest of his guru Garga

His son Vajrakhira is a staunch supporter of Janmejay.

There's a great grandson of Drupad who rules Panchala ; Shatanika rules west and eastern Panchala, he and his son Keshi and Krishna are said to revive Panchala and bring back its glory (Shatapatha)

Keshi is sometimes called his nephew, sister's son! so Nakul and Drau had one more daughter?!

Shatanika and his sons are said to be married to Panchalis.

Prativindhya descendants get Sauvira in inheritance; among them there are two grandsons Jayanta who rules Mulasthana with sons of Samba as neighbours another is found crushing a rebellion in Videha by Kuru Dharmanetra( Yeh dushmani hum nahi bhulenge!!) and helps Kashi king Suvarnakshema/Suvarnaverma gain control over Videha. Videha kingdom ultimately passes on to Pratapa ; his lineage too is quite powerful .

Prativindhya had many wives , he has an ascetic wife, a Panchali and a Bahlika princess for wife and has many sons and grandsons ...

Suvarnakshema is son of Sarvaga and father to Vapushthama, wife of Janmejay. Like any other father Suvarnakshema looks into Janmejay's resume in detail before giving his daughter in marriage😊

Parikshit line of Asandivat and Kakshasena ( grandson of Sutasoma) line of Indraprastha rule for a very long time

Kaskshasena's son Abhipratrin is a very powerful king and is a younger contemporary to Janmejay

His glories are sung in all Brahmanas

Nakul's other children get kingdom in north western India , probably the one Naku conquers in his western Digvijaya.

Parikshit's wife Madravati is a Sahdev descendent ;

Srutasena's son is Srutasrava and there's one more son , they along with Arjun console and bring back the survivors of intoxicated madness called 'Mausala'. These sons become kulguru to their nephews

Srutakirti's descendents rule Kanyakubja much info isn't available.

Hope this is helpful

The correct words in your siggy , eulogizing our Vriku bhima⭐️

vAya uktE-bhir jarante tvAmachchA jaritAraH
sutasomA aharvidaH (rigveda, book 1)

O vayu( the ever pervading one) you are the knower of seasons and days, the singers sing your glory and offer Soma ( the celestial juice) to thee

Edited by ananyacool - 11 years ago