{| Doubts and Discussions about Mahabharata - 2 |}

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 11 years ago

#621

Originally posted by: ashne

Thanks for the info. In the post above by "ananyacool", all the people mentioned who consider Drau as their mom, need not be her biological descendants ?

Just wanted to know if any of the Pandav/Drau lineage went forward. Also why wasn't Babruvahan considered Pandav kul - Was it just because he was to be the heir of his maternal kingdom?

Too many questions😊

No idea about whether Draupadi's lineage survived. The Pandavas definitely did - via Ghato & Abhi t least, and maybe even the non-major sons - Yaudeha to Suhotra.

Babru wasn't considered a Pandava in that he had no connections whatsoever w/ Hastinapur. His situation was like Bahlika - Bahlika was the elder brother of Shantanu who inherited his mother's kingdom, not Hastinapur, leaving Shantanu to succeed in Hastinapur. That case was more unusual given that their eldest brother had a congenital defect, and so Bahlika would have been the automatic choice to rule Hastinapur. However, due to a promise given to his mother's family, he inherited that kingdom.

In Arjun's case, he knew that any son born to him & Chitrangada would be some distance from the Indraprastha throne. He'd at best be a warrior on the Pandava side. So when Chitravahana made it conditional that to marry Chitrangada, Arjun had to forsake any claims that Indraprastha had over their son, Arjun readily agreed. As a result, even in the war, Babru's kingdom was neutral, and therefore survived it.

In fact, when Arjun was on his Ashwamedha campaign & Babru welcomed him, Arjun pointed out to him that he was dishonoring his lineage by welcoming an army out to subjugate them. In short, Arjun made it clear to Babru that he was not a part of the Hastinapur royal family, so to speak

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Radhika

@ashne

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#622

Originally posted by: ashne

Thanks for the info. In the post above by "ananyacool", all the people mentioned who consider Drau as their mom, need not be her biological descendants ?

Just wanted to know if any of the Pandav/Drau lineage went forward. Also why wasn't Babruvahan considered Pandav kul - Was it just because he was to be the heir of his maternal kingdom?

Too many questions😊

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

No idea about whether Draupadi's lineage survived. The Pandavas definitely did - via Ghato & Abhi t least, and maybe even the non-major sons - Yaudeha to Suhotra.

Babru wasn't considered a Pandava in that he had no connections whatsoever w/ Hastinapur. His situation was like Bahlika - Bahlika was the elder brother of Shantanu who inherited his mother's kingdom, not Hastinapur, leaving Shantanu to succeed in Hastinapur. That case was more unusual given that their eldest brother had a congenital defect, and so Bahlika would have been the automatic choice to rule Hastinapur. However, due to a promise given to his mother's family, he inherited that kingdom.

In Arjun's case, he knew that any son born to him & Chitrangada would be some distance from the Indraprastha throne. He'd at best be a warrior on the Pandava side. So when Chitravahana made it conditional that to marry Chitrangada, Arjun had to forsake any claims that Indraprastha had over their son, Arjun readily agreed. As a result, even in the war, Babru's kingdom was neutral, and therefore survived it.

In fact, when Arjun was on his Ashwamedha campaign & Babru welcomed him, Arjun pointed out to him that he was dishonoring his lineage by welcoming an army out to subjugate them. In short, Arjun made it clear to Babru that he was not a part of the Hastinapur royal family, so to speak

Thanks, Vrish. Yes I have read the Ashwamedha story.

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india2050

@india2050

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#623

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

He couldn't have. First 15 years of the Pandava rule, he was a constant companion to Dhrit, while Parikshit was growing up. By the time the Pandavas left, Parikshit was 36. So it's doubtful that he'd have been the guru to Parikshit.

Also, there is no mention of him when Parikshit does his various yagnas, or consults w/ advisors on how to avoid the curse of Takshak

Probably not the Kulguru. Here's the quote from KMG. Son of Sharadvata is I believe Kripacharya. The first is from Sauptika Parva and the other from Mahaprasthanika Parva

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m10/m10016.htm

The heroic Parikshit, attaining to age and a knowledge of the Vedas and the practice of pious vows, shall obtain all weapons from the son of Sharadvata.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m17/m17001.htm

Kripa was installed as the preceptor and Parikshit was made over to him as his disciple, O chief of Bharata's race.

Edited by india2050 - 11 years ago

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ananyacool

@ananyacool

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#624

Death of Kripa the senior kulguru is mentioned in Shanti parva There's a story within a story: Bhishma tells Yudhi about the death of Kripa and Yudhi is like "oh yes I remember I was in exile then" Kripa the warrior who died in the war is mentioned in Anushasan parva; so there is another Kripa in Sauptika ?!!😒

There are scholars who believe that Anushasana parva is a later addition but whoever wrote Anushasana and or added it as a part of epic must be having some memory of the war and mentions Kripa the warrior's death; then how much of credibility should be given to Sauptika? There is another Kripa fighting along with Ashwatthama

[I referred MBH of Devnagri script Geeta press edition for info on different Kripas ]

Edited by ananyacool - 11 years ago

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ananyacool

@ananyacool

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#625

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Pandu's prowess seems to be exaggerated in this work if he's described as overshadowing Jarasandha. Otherwise Hastinapur would have been a major ally of Mathura (as in Ugrasena/Vasudeva) when they were threatened following Kansa's death. Krishna for instance noted the need to evacuate his entire clan to Dwarka, which would have been needless had Pandu been around. RS-SK does depict Dhritarashtra as declining to help the Yadavas.

Pandu's digvijaya had to be limited in area to the kingdoms around Hastinapur - maybe starting from Gandhara and going up to Kashi. There is no way he could have subdued Jarasandha, who besides being unmatched had a powerful alliance behind him - Shalva, Rukmi, (later) Sishupala, Paundrak, Dantavatra, Vinda/Anuvinda and so on. That alliance would have crushed Pandu - in fact, it was the most likely reason that Krishna evacuated Mathura, surrounded as it was by enemies.

Pandu's prowess is not exaggerated, he was indeed a great archer and is called as a Vasava and Para puranjaya ( Indra, conqueror of hostile cities) Pandu ruled for a short period of time and within that time he does subdue a lot of kings.

There's a yavana king who Pandu is not able to conquer and that is done by Arjun in his first digvijaya.

Dhritarashtra mentions ( in sabha parva) that Pandavas have carried forward Pandu's legacy and have won more than what Hastinapur has lost in his (Pandu's) absence.

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ananyacool

@ananyacool

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#626

Originally posted by: ashne

This is interesting. Does this mean that Drau and Pandavas had other kids besides the 5 UPs killed on the 18th day or does it mean that the 5UPs killed were married and had kids of their own. The people mentioned above are their descendants?

If this was the case, why is only Parikshit mentioned as the Pandava heir?

Yes at least Prati, Sutasom and Shatanika were married and had kids

Prativindhya wins against a lady ascetic Shalabha in a debate on Dharma sutras at Mithila and gets her hand in marriage (Bhasa Bharata)

Sutasoma marries Chanda and rules Udayendupur in Panchal ( this is in Drona parva)

Sutasoma Jataka calls him the king of Indraprastha

Shatanika -Nakuleya or Draupadeya as he is more famously called, is a celebrated king of Shatapatha and Aitereya brahamana he helps Drupada defeat and kill Durbuddhi in western panchal thus gets himself a chokri and naukri!!

Harivamsa also mentions Shatanika's conquest; it elaborates further that it is Bhallata who is killed by Karna in his Digvijaya and not Drupad who is defeated. Karna places Durbuddhi on throne and makes him a Kaurava ally until these plans are spoilt by Shatanika and Drupad

If Sauptika is true, even then there's a daughter to Yudhi- Drau: Suthanu the wife of Bhanu-asva and mother to Vajra. so there's at least a daughter left

According to Sauptika and other parvas its Parikshit the only heir but he too is ruling Kurujangala from Asandivat which is near Kurukshetra and not Hastinapur ; Shatapatha brahmana mentions the kingdom left by Yudhi and his brothers and which grandson ruled what...

Since the host of Sarpa satra is Janmejaya and has Vaishampayana narrating the history for him and it is Janmejaya paying for it maybe the focus is more on Parikshit and Abhimanyu

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Radhika

@ashne

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#627

Originally posted by: ashne

This is interesting. Does this mean that Drau and Pandavas had other kids besides the 5 UPs killed on the 18th day or does it mean that the 5UPs killed were married and had kids of their own. The people mentioned above are their descendants?

If this was the case, why is only Parikshit mentioned as the Pandava heir?

Originally posted by: ananyacool
Yes at least Prati, Sutasom and Shatanika were married and had kids
Prativindhya wins against a lady ascetic Shalabha in a debate on Dharma sutras at Mithila and gets her hand in marriage (Bhasa Bharata)

Sutasoma marries Chanda and rules Udayendupur in Panchal ( this is in Drona parva)

Sutasoma Jataka calls him the king of Indraprastha

Shatanika -Nakuleya or Draupadeya as he is more famously called, is a celebrated king of Shatapatha and Aitereya brahamana he helps Drupada defeat and kill Durbuddhi in western panchal thus gets himself a chokri and naukri!!

Harivamsa also mentions Shatanika's conquest; it elaborates further that it is Bhallata who is killed by Karna in his Digvijaya and not Drupad who is defeated. Karna places Durbuddhi on throne and makes him a Kaurava ally until these plans are spoilt by Shatanika and Drupad

If Sauptika is true, even then there's a daughter to Yudhi- Drau: Suthanu the wife of Bhanu-asva and mother to Vajra. so there's at least a daughter left

According to Sauptika and other parvas its Parikshit the only heir but he too is ruling Kurujangala from Asandivat which is near Kurukshetra and not Hastinapur ; Shatapatha brahmana mentions the kingdom left by Yudhi and his brothers and which grandson ruled what...

Since the host of Sarpa satra is Janmejaya and has Vaishampayana narrating the history for him and it is Janmejaya paying for it maybe the focus is more on Parikshit and Abhimanyu

Thanks, ananya. I was just curious. Abhi must have been younger than at least a few of Drau's children's. Then how was it, that none of them were married. Guess, like u said focus was more on Abhi's descendants. If this is true, then the pandas did have other grandchildren who survived, if not sons.

I have read that the daughters of the Pandavs are folklores, nevertheless makes an interesting read.

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RosChel.Lobster

@RosChel.Lobster

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#628

Did Gandhari ever forgive Bheem?

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india2050

@india2050

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#629

Originally posted by: Rushika
Did Gandhari ever forgive Bheem?

The way Dhrit took out his anger on the iron statue, Gandhari took it out on Lord Krishna. After that I guess she reconciled herself to the situation. Draupadi, Subhi and later Uloopi were there to take care. All of them were left childless so it would have been a shared pain for all of them. So may be not directly but indirectly she may have forgiven.

On the other hand I don't think Bheem ever forgave Dury and Dushi at all. Sometimes whenever Dhrit and Gandhari were within hearing range, he used to make his feelings pretty clear

Edited by india2050 - 11 years ago

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Aradhana

@Aradhana87

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#630

in ⭐️b rukmi says that krishna and rukmini will get seperated... radha and krishna get seperated not rukmini and krishna right..?

was arjun bound by rules while his exile(4 example not 2 enter a city just like lord ram) if yes then how can he get married? wasn't it a ''praayaschit yatra'' getting married doesn't seem like praayaschit

why didn't draupadi object when she had 2 marry 5 men

why was karna not allowed 2 fight from day 1 of the war

kripacharya is also a brahmin and also fought so is he can why can't karna?

where did all the women(gandhari, kunti, draupadi and the other wives of the pandavas and uttara stay during the war?

why was arjun's gandiv in draupadis room?it was yuddhishtir's year wasn't it so how could arjun leave his gandiv there?

when do krishna and arjun meet 4 the first time?

did all the pandavas' children participate in the war?

Edited by Aradhana87 - 11 years ago