All discussions- before-during-after Dice game/VH here only/ DT Nt-128 - Page 42

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AnjanaYYZ thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Far be it for me to Defend Dharmaraj... but, didn't they have Das and Dasi's in Dwapar Yug? If so, human beings were already objectified commodities. As such, why could he not as King bet brothers? Is a common dasi less human than Arjuna? The only wrinkle is whether as a das he could have still bet their wife.
Am speaking above in terms of logic not epic.
Edited by AnjanaYYZ - 11 years ago
Sabhayata thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: amritat

Yudisthir may have done a horrible thing, but atleast he wronged HIS OWN WIFE...Although I am NOT justifiying "insulting one's own wife", but all I am trying to say is Karna, Duryodhan n Dushasen CROSSED THE LINE, by assaulting n supporting the assault on SOMEONE ELSE'S WIFE...That, in my opinion, is MUCH WORSE...


well this is where i guess difference of opinion comes as per you wronging your own wife is better than wronging some one else's wife

for me its complete opposite

you are not obligated to another's wife in any way to protect her honour may be humanity wise yes but under no the obligation to protect some one else's wife's honor but for your own wife not only humanity wise but morally and technically also your obligated to protect her and stand by her

for example if i am wronged by stranger its a different thing but if i am wronged by my family by my mom sis or husband who are supposed to care about my happiness which a stranger doesn't its whole other ball game

that's is my opinion

in any case that day in dice hall every one was wrong each and every one panadavs,kauavas,karna ,bheeshm ,drit etc every one was wrong except Drauapdi she was the only innocent and brave and heroic person that day where as other were cowards or evil.i would blame each and everyone in that dice hall except for drau

i said a few pages back that despite whatever good qualities karan had he was wrong to insult Drauapdi what is wrong is wrong same goes for yudi whther he had a right or not to stake draupadi is a different issue but a husband must understand how and when and where he can exercise these rights


Edited by Sabhayata - 11 years ago
AnjanaYYZ thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
What I learned from all of this? Read the FINE PRINT. Bet, but be careful what you bet. For instance... instead of betting bros & drau...Yuddhi should have bet their labour and limited it to household chores like cleaning dishes, laundry, toilet cleaning, etc.😆🤣
Edited by AnjanaYYZ - 11 years ago
amritat thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Sabhayata, you are right. However, when I said 'assaulting someone else's wife is worse", I meant it, in terms of humanity.
I do not support "insulting one's own wife" or staking her either. Ofcourse, Yudisthir was wrong.
But what I meant to say is, some people tend to get stuck on the validity of Yudisthir's action, but overlook what Duryodhan, Dushasen, Karna or Shakuni did. Infact, there are some people who shift the whole blame on the Pandavas only.
Insulting, physically assaulting and disrobing/sexually harassing a woman, on whom a man has NO right, is much worse than staking one's own wife.
Do not get me wrong. Staking one's own wife is wrong too. A husband should know the limits of his rights to his wife. But Yudisthir did not stake his wife for fun.
What Yudisthir did was wrong, but he felt helpless after losing everything, even himself , n hence staked the last "possession" he had. It was not his intention to treat Draupadi as a commodity, since he staked himself too. He did not realize that his wife would be subjected to that kind of an assault, n would NEED PROTECTION from him n his 4 brothers.
Whereas the other 4 people took advantage of this helplessness n hit the Pandavas at the place, where it would hurt the most:- Draupadi's honour. They just needed the opportunity, which they got when Yudisthir impulsively staked her. N when they got the opportunity, they utilized it fully by disrobing her. Now, that was an intentional act.
That is y I feel that Duryodhan, Karna, Shakuni n Dushasen were much more guilty than Yudisthir.
Besides, even if a woman has become a dasi, is it necessary to "disrobe" her?
Especially when she was in her season? No.
Did Duryodhan, Karna, Shakuni n Dushasen treat all their "dasis" like that? No.
But they did that with Draupadi. Why? Bcoz, of their rivalry with the Pandavas.
So, their action was intentional, if not pre-planned.
N, hence, their actions were MUCH WORSE than Yudisthir's.
amritat thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: DrModel


I wholeheartedly and fully agree with this entire post.
My sentiments exactly; you put them out so eloquently

Thank you. 😃
sailuja thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Mahabharata/Jaya - Draupadi Vastraharan (Disrobing)

ARTICLE -just get to know information about diz article in mahabrth
" woman who is married to 5 men is not a wife but a wh**e. A wh**e has no honour. Even if she was brough here naked, it would not matter. Elders like Bhishma and the King are quiet, then why do you, Oh Vikarna, raise objections? Sit down and don't speak on dharma which you don't know about". Thus spoke Karna to suppress the protests of Vikarna, younger brother of Duryodhana, at events happening in the recreational hall. These lines uttered by Karna (maybe to revenge his insult by Draupadi during Swayamwara) would trigger the shameful events to follow. Karna had always been a reluctant participant in all the treacherous plans of Duryodhana and Shakuni. But today, he too came down from the way of Dharma.

After loosing himself, Yuddhistira even stakes his own wife. This was on the instigation of Karna. Vidura had requested King Dhritharashtra to stop the game but he is insulted by Duryodhana. Vidura tries again but nothing happens. Elders like Bhishma, Drona and Kripa are all present but no one raises an objection ever. Yuddhistira looses this game as well and Draupadi is now Duryodhana's maid.

Duryodhana tells a servant to bring Draupadi to the hall so that her can order her to go to the maid's quarters. She is no longer a queen and cannot stay in the palace. The servant returns with a question to Yuddhistira from Draupadi which goes like this "Can a man who staked and lost himself to be a slave have any right to stake his wife?" Duryodhana orders the servant to call Draupadi and ask all this personally. Draupadi refuses to come to the hall. Duryodhana then sends Dushashana to bring her. Dushashana drags Draupadi to the hall by her hair. Draupadi (was having a period) was wearing a single a piece of cloth as she was waiting for her ritual bath after which she can meet the elders. Her cloth was slightly blood strained as well. Bhim tries to get up to attack Dushashana but is stopped by Yuddhistira.

Draupadi questions Yuddhistira and his brothers. She asks then Bhishma, King Dhritharasthra, Drona and Kripa to help and protect a helpless woman. She also asks them the question if a woman is a property of the husband. Vidura instigates the king to answer and stop this madness. This is when Vikarna stands up and tries to protest the shameful event. To suppress this, Karna cites the then existing laws according to with a woman who sleeps around with 5 men is like a wh**e.

In some retellings, Bhishma sadly tells Draupadi that "Dharma works in very subtle ways". I believe Vyasa explained the most mysterious event in the entire epic in this work. Why did Bhishma or the other elders got up to help Draupadi or stop Yuddhistira from staking high? Except for Vidura no one did. In some retellings, Draupadi had confessed to Yuddhistira only that she had insulted Duryodhana. So did Yuddhistira (the embodiment of justice and righteousness) do this purposely?


In India many board games are spiritual metaphors. Snakes and Ladders was invented by a saint named Namdeo. It states the journey of an individual atma taking multiple lives. Every time he has a bad life, he is caught by snake and then has to come down and start the journey again. In the same sense, every time for a good life he gets a ladder and goes to higher planes of existence. I have read, throw of dice indicates free will while the movement of coins on the board indicate destiny/fate (although I would feel it is vice versa).


Following the words of Karna, Duryodhana orders the Pandavas to remove their crowns and robes which they do. Then, he orders Dushashana to remove her cloth. He then exposes his thighs and directs Dushashana to make Draupadi sit in his lap after disrobing. . No one in the hall object. Bhishma, Drona and Kripa struggled with their own understanding of Dharma as no law was broken. Draupadi, realizing this, finally prayed to Krishna.

Dushashana started pulling her robe. Draupadi immersed in prayers, raised her hands up and then a miracle happened. Dushashana kept on pulling clothes but it never finished. Somehow a new piece of cloth would appear. This was a miracle. I have heard so many miracles performed by the modern saints as well. Devotees seeing their divine sages in a distant town with out the sage having ever personally gone there. So maybe, this was one instance of divinity. Also, Draupadi was holding onto the cloth tightly and Krishna did not help her till she let go of her clothes and raised her hands. Spiritually, this means that you need to totally surrender to God/Self/Truth for Him to reveal Himself and help you.


Dushashana gets tired and lets go of the cloth. Draupadi vows that she will never forgive the kauravas and she will not tie her hair till it is washed in Dushashana's blood. Bhima too gets up and vows that he will cut those hands of Dushashana and drink his blood after tearing his chest. Bhima also vows that he will smash those thighs of Duryodhana. Draupadi is about to curse the picture when Queen Gandhari enters the hall and pleads her to not curse. Then, Gandhari pleads King Dhritharasthra to do some justice here. King Dhritharashtra, alarmed as negative omens from the wailings of animals, fears the curse of a pious woman. King Dhritharashtra tells Draupadi to forgive all and gives her three wishes. Draupadi asks for her husbands' freedom and then for their weapons. Draupadi reminds that as per Khsatriya dharma (Warrior code), a Kshatriya lady can only seek 2 wishes and not more. That would be greed.

Karna tells Duryodhana, praising Draupadi, "She has the sharpest tongue. The Pandavas have been saved by a woman". Arjuna addresses Karna as a charioteer's son again and vows to kill him.

King Dhritharashtra pleads to Yuddhistira and Draupadi to go back to Indraprastha and forgive all that has happened.

Edited by sailuja - 11 years ago
Bhavaani thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Actually no, it isn't Duryodhan, but everyone's beloved Karna who orders the Pandavas and Draupadi to be disrobed:

"...the son of Radha...said these words ',--'O Vikarna, many opposite and inconsistent conditions are noticeable in this assembly. Like fire produced from a faggot, consuming the faggot itself, this thy ire will consume thee. These personages here, though urged by Krishna, have not uttered a word. They all regard the daughter of Drupada to have been properly won. Thou alone, O son of Dhritarashtra in consequence of thy immature years, art bursting with wrath, for though but a boy thou speakest in the assembly as if thou wert old.

O younger brother of Duryodhana, thou dost not know what morality truly is, for thou sayest like a fool that this Krishna who hath been (justly) won as not won at all. O son of Dhritarashtra, how dost thou regard Krishna as not won, when the eldest of the Pandavas before this assembly staked all his possessions? O bull of the Bharata race, Draupadi is included in all the possessions (of Yudhishthira). Therefore, why regardest thou Krishna who hath been justly won as not won?

Draupadi had been mentioned (by Suvala) and approved of as a stake by the Pandavas. For what reason then dost thou yet regard her as not won? Or, if thou thinkest that bringing her hither attired in a single piece of cloth, is an action of impropriety, listen to certain excellent reasons I will give. O son of the Kuru race, the gods have ordained only one husband for one woman. This Draupadi, however, hath many husbands. Therefore, certain it is that she is an unchaste woman. To bring her, therefore, into this assembly attired though she be in one piece of cloth--even to uncover her is not at all an act that may cause surprise.

Whatever wealth the Pandavas had--she herself and these Pandavas themselves,--have all been justly won by the son of Suvala. O Dussasana, this Vikarna speaking words of (apparent) wisdom is but a boy. Take off the robes of the Pandavas and also the attire of Draupadi. Hearing these words the Pandavas, O Bharata, took of their upper garments and throwing them down sat in that assembly. Then Dussasana, O king, forcibly seizing Draupadi's attire before the eyes of all, began to drag it off her person."

I wish people would read the actual text before writing these articles and whitewashing characters, who in my opinion do not deserve such hero-worship.

But anyway I don't think we're supposed to discuss this outside of the Vastraharan/Dice game sticky topic. 😊
Edited by Bhavaani - 11 years ago
sailuja thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
@bhavnni diz is not write me.. just sharing article news .. don't hesitated and don't dersve diz ..😳just read and close ..
Edited by sailuja - 11 years ago
Bhavaani thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: sailuja

@bhavnni diz is not write me.. just sharing article news .. don't hesitated and don't dersve diz ..😳



Oh I know you didn't personally write this. I was talking about the original author of the article.
Justitia thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: sailuja

@bhavnni diz is not write me.. just sharing article news .. don't hesitated and don't dersve diz ..😳just read and close ..

I would request you to read the original Vyasa's Mahabharata before posting any "external" articles regarding Karna, which "glorify" Karna in any way, or make any attempts to "whitewash" his character.

Karna DID have his role to play in Draupadi's humiliation - be it ordering her disrobing, or even calling her a "w****".

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