'Mahabharat- Different Versions -Perspectives'

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@DrModel

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+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#301

@ Bheegi

The day Yuganta is available on the Kindle, I will buy it and read it; waiting for that day.

As for Karan wanting to kill Pandavas; there is a school of thought that states that he KNEW Shakti would never harm Arjun. He KNEW the Lord of the Universe protected Arjun. He also knew of his curses and he also knew Indra was going to come and ask for his Shield/Earrings. He also knew that it was the Lord of the Universe who held the secret of his birth and would tell him.

And YET, in his quest for greatness he gave away the Shield. he could have said NO but that would not earn him the tag of danveer Karna. He wanted his name to go down in history; why should Arjun have the glory of being Gandivdhari Arjuna; it was honor and greatness that he sought the most. Honor to be equal to the Pandavas.

And his search for honor is what took him to HP and got Duri to give him Ang raj

Also his issue with being called sudh putra and rejected and thus making it ok for him to insult DPadi. A woman has the right to marry whoever she chooses. One can be friends with everyone in the world but marriage is done amongst those who are equal to you. If had married him her kids would be sut putra ke putra which in those days was not acceptable to any woman of royal birth.

And she had taken a fancy to Arjun and wanted to marry him. Why should this union be prevented by a young man of inferior birth as per her POV?

Anyways the arguments for and against Karna are numerous. Everyone is entitled to what they think.

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bheegi

@bheegi

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#302

@ Dr Model...Yuganta is not available on kindle. A third party mailed it to me via amazon. Yes, Karna has various layers in his character- some good, some flawed but again he is a well written character from a writer's POV.

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@DrModel

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#303

Originally posted by: bheegi
@ Dr Model...Yuganta is not available on kindle. A third party mailed it to me via amazon. Yes, Karna has various layers in his character- some good, some flawed but again he is a well written character from a writer's POV.

Apparently because he is a "tragic hero" there are numerous writes that draw inspiration from him

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@DrModel

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#304

Krishna had not raised his voice. He spoke almost sadly, or at least, only with anger born of grief. "You dare tell me you have caused the Pandavas no suffering, that you are not to blame at all for what they endured these thirteen years. You dare. And in this sabha of wise men, who know you since your infancy, who know every sin you have ever committed. Well, let them decide whether any guilt attaches to you or not. I knew how fiercely you would argue today, Duryodhana, how glibly. That is why I came here and not because I had any real hope of convincing you to return to dharma. I am sure all these wise men have heard your clever arguments often enough. Now let them hear another point of view and decide which one is true. You were consumed by envy when Yudhishtira performed the Rajasuya yagna.

Already, you had tried to kill your cousins more than once, because you hated them from the moment they came home out of the wilds. When you saw the wealth of Indraprastha and the splendor of the Mayaa sabha, you could not bear your envy any longer. I am not sure whether it was you or your uncle Shakuni who decided to conquer the Pandavas at a game of dice. Probably Shakuni thought of it; it sounds like what he would prefer, a battle he could not lose. You would have gone to war if the choice were yours, that is more your nature.

Even if the plan was Shakuni's at first, you embraced it readily enough. You did not protest that it was a perfidious way to quench your envy of the sons of Pandu: to humiliate them, to destroy them if you could. The plan worked well. Yudhishtira accepted your challenge, poor, high-minded king. Exactly as you had calculated, he lost his reason at this game that did not suit him at all. Don't tell me, Duryodhana, that you believed Yudhishtira stood a chance of winning at dice against Shakuni. Don't tell me the game was played in friendly spirit with no harm intended. You could have stopped the game, any time you chose; but it was not to stop that you had begun. You did not stop until Yudhishtira had lost everything and his very honor, that day. And you say you are guilty of no crime? Do you take everyone in this sabha for a fool?

As if the game of dice was not enough, you had your brother haul Panchali into this court. He dragged her in by her hair and all these great men heard what you said to her then, your cousins' wife, how you called her to sit in your lap. And then, your brother, this grinning Dusasana, tried to strip that queen naked in this hallowed sabha." Krishna's voice was almost a whisper now, what he said was reverberant. "And you tell me no blame attaches to you and you are an innocent man? Well, I have come here to learn how such a paragon of dharma like you, Duryodhana, chooses to fight a war in which millions shall die,

Menon, Ramesh (2006-07-20). THE MAHABHARATA: A Modern Rendering, Vol 2 iUniverse. Kindle Edition.

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guenhwyvar

@guenhwyvar

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#305

that was powerful, thanks for sharing Doc. M

Edited by shyam09 - 11 years ago

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@DrModel

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#306

He hauled her wailing through those corridors, her garment often falling away from her naked shoulders, while she clutched at it for her very life, or for honor more precious than life. Growling still, like a predator with its prey, Dusasana dragged Draupadi into the Kuru sabha by her hair and flung her down on the floor before its kshatriyas, her eyes blazing, her face streaked with tears.

Menon, Ramesh (2006-07-20). THE MAHABHARATA: A Modern Rendering, Vol 1 (Kindle Locations 8340-8342). iUniverse. Kindle Edition.

++++++++++++

Draupadi cried, "How can you say Yudhishtira played willingly? In Indraprastha, he told Vidura he did not want to play. Obviously, he was provoked into playing. You were here all the while, Pitama: didn't you know how poor at dice my husband is? That he hasn't the temper for it, that he is too noble, too innocent. Or didn't you, perhaps, know there is no dice-player on earth like Shakuni? But you sat by without a murmur as Yudhishtira gambled away all that he owned. O, Pitama, you are the king's uncle; you wield great power in this sabha. How did you allow this? It was like sending a child into battle against a seasoned warrior. And yet, Bheeshma, you speak to me of the finer points of dharma. How do you dare?"

Menon, Ramesh (2006-07-20). THE MAHABHARATA: A Modern Rendering, Vol 1 (Kindle Locations 8368-8373). iUniverse. Kindle Edition.

+++++++++++++++++++

Bheema, who barely controlled himself all this while, could not bear it any more. He turned on Yudhishtira. "What have you done? Men who gamble every day have wives, but they do not wager them at dice. But the Pandava emperor does! You are mad. You gambled away all our wealth, our army, our kingdom, everything we had. I said nothing, because you are my older brother. I cared little for what you lost when I set it against my love for you. Then, you gambled the five of us away and still I held my peace. I thought that you are our guru, our king. We all belong to you and whatever you did would be for the best." Bheema's face was crimson. Arjuna tried to calm him, but the son of the wind had lost control of himself.

Menon, Ramesh (2006-07-20). THE MAHABHARATA: A Modern Rendering, Vol 1 (Kindle Locations 8386-8393). iUniverse. Kindle Edition.

"Everything you did I bore in silence. But now you have gone completely mad. Did you see how that animal dragged Draupadi into this sabha of our fathers? Yudhishtira, I will never forgive you for wagering Panchali!" His eyes were red and flecks of froth on his lips. Bheema turned to Sahadeva and cried, "Bring me fire, Sahadeva. I will burn the hands that lost Panchali at a game of dice!" The man who had been emperor of the world, an hour ago, sat with his head hung low. Arjuna pulled Bheema to a side and hissed, "What has happened to you? You have always treated Yudhishtira like a father. How can you speak to him like this at such a time?" Bheema was in no mood to relent. "He was like a father till an hour ago and I respected him. But he has changed: he deserves to have his hands burned! Oh, Arjuna, look at Draupadi. Can you bear this shame?" Restraining the titan somehow, Arjuna breathed, "Look at Yudhishtira; do you think he feels no shame? How bravely he bears it and his guilt. His spirit is already broken, Bheema. What will you achieve by burning a broken man's hands?"

Menon, Ramesh (2006-07-20). THE MAHABHARATA: A Modern Rendering, Vol 1 (Kindle Locations 8393-8403). iUniverse. Kindle Edition.

Edited by DrModel - 11 years ago

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@DrModel

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#307

Bheema turns to Yudhishtira in anguish, "My lord, she was sinless all her life. Why has she died like this?" Yudhishtira appears unmoved. Calmly, he says, "Though we were all her husbands, in her heart, she always loved Arjuna more than any of us. Except for that, she was pure: which is why she could climb this far. That was her only sin, but it took her down."

Menon, Ramesh (2006-07-20). THE MAHABHARATA: A Modern Rendering, Vol 2 (Kindle Locations 10731-10735). iUniverse. Kindle Edition.

+++++++++

Also RM which is KMG condensed says the following

AUM, I bow down to Narayana, the most exalted Nara and to the Devi Saraswathi and say Jaya!

Menon, Ramesh (2006-07-20). THE MAHABHARATA: A Modern Rendering, Vol 2 (Kindle Location 10788). iUniverse. Kindle Edition.

Edited by DrModel - 11 years ago

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Ashwini_D

@Ashwini_D

Navigator

Posted: 11 years ago

#308

Just copying my post from the EDT. KMG omits passages which were too explicit or suggestive of all that was not in line with the Victorian sensibilities of the time the book was written. Have you or anybody here been able to access P.Lal's translation of the epic? (It is said that his translation is quite faithful to one of the recensions, the northern recension I guess)

Edited by ashwi_d - 11 years ago

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bheegi

@bheegi

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

#309

Draupadi-Krishna convo after the VH

Choked with emotion I said, "Lord, you can do as you will. Without you can anything occur anywhere? Who but you could tackle Draupadi's insult in the Kuru court? When Duhshasan dragged me by the hair into the hall, I was then menstruating, wearing a single piece of cloth. I, the wife of the Pandavs, Dhrishtadyumna's sister, your dear sakhi and the bride of the Bharat dynasty! Yet none prevented Duhshasan . My valiant husbands remained mute spectators. Duhshasan and Duryodhan's obscene words, gestures, karna's sarcastic speech are even now piercing my being. In the royal hall the elders, warriors , scholars, all were seated. When Duhshasan began stripping me, none was there to help! It seemed to me I had no husband, no son, no brother , no friend, no father, no well-wisher! How terrifyingly helpless I felt! Who will understand that? I do not know where Bhim and Arjun's prowess and valour disappeared. Yudhishthir's humility and devotion to dharma-is this what it was? The destruction of the country where men do not rise to protect the honour of women is inevitable. The men of that country get a bad name and are abused. In such a situation it is on you that I depended, Krishna! When my faith in everyone was shattered, I surrendered myself to you. By your miraculous intervention not only was my honour saved but the honur of all womankind of this country. On the sacred soil of Bharata woman is not dishonoured " this you proved. Even though I was insulted, yet the glory of this soil was revealed before the world. It is this that remains a matter of consolation for me. O Krishna! I wish to spend my life as your handmaid. Only then,perhaps, may this debt grow somewhat lighter..." Opening up my heart before my compassionate and understanding friend, Krishna, I sobbed into my sari. After the outrage in the Kuru court I had not uttered a word to my husbands. What was the point of displaying hurt and reproach before my husbands, who were the cause of my anguish and who, despite being powerful, did not come to my assistance? What further sulking can I do before such husbands any more? Finding so understanding a friend as Krishna, how could I control myself? After all I was a woman! Folding his hands Krishna said, "Devi! My handmaid! You will turn me into an offender. I did not do anything at all out of the way for you. Whatever you had done, it was that debt that I repaid and am free now. In nursing me on the day of the ceremonial entrance to the new palace, you had torn the auspicious sari received from your husband to bandage my finger. In the shape of cloth it was that which I returned. By offering thread to get cloth in return " that is faith." My eyes were tearful. Wiping his perspiration with a perfumed cloth, Krishna said, "Look! I have turned the gift of your affection into a kerchief and carry it about. Sakhi, Krishna is ever hungry for affection. Regarding me as your sakha, keep showering affection on me " that is all I want. I will count myself blessed. Treat me like that always." I was amazed. Krishna was carrying around the strip of my sari as a kerchief! Every moment he was recalling that petty service! It seemed to me that all the grief and regret of my life had been washed away. In a voice throbbing with love I said, "Sakha, you alone have the right to all the pure unsullied love of this heart. Since birth this heart has been offered to you alone. Do not shame me by repeating what you said." Krishna laughed, "Krishnaa, you have been born of a portion of Lakshmi. Without your affection Krishna will be deprived of good fortune " remember this." Finding Krishna's support, I was sensing strength within. In a firm voice I said, "Sakha, if those who were responsible for the horrifying outrage that Draupadi suffered in the Kuru court, for wicked misbehaviour, do not receive exemplary punishment, then the history of Bharata will be filled with shameful accounts of atrocities against women. Kings and princes will abduct beautiful women from their husbands' homes for quenching their perverted lust, will strip them in public. To enjoy the beauty of naked women with lust-crazed eyes will become the normal pastime of debauched men. Sakha, to me you are everything. What worry do I have? But if the Duhshasans and Duryodhans do not receive the fruits of their sins, then in future the fate of women is shrouded in the darkest gloom. I am surprised that even after attempting to strip the daughter-in-law of noble Pandu, the wife of the Pandavs, the dear sakhi of Krishna Vasudev , in the Kuru court, they did not die. When that wicked man was stripping me, helpless like chaste Sita I could have disappeared into the depths of the earth to hide my shame. If I had prayed, would not the earth have opened? But I did not do so. If I had done so my modesty would have been protected but the wicked would not have been punished. In the future this problem would remain unresolved for women. Tolerance is the ornament of women. But to bear injustice with bowed head is not the dharma of women. If the husband adopts the wrong path and the wife remains quiet , then everyone will suffer. The portion of sin in the world will increase. Innocent people will suffer theBut to bear injustice with bowed head is not the dharma of women. If the husband adopts the wrong path and the wife remains quiet , then everyone will suffer. The portion of sin in the world will increase. Innocent people will suffer the consequences of that sin. Therefore, even after the terrible outrage and the insufferable insult I am alive. Happiness, prosperity, enjoyment of the kingdom are not the aims of my life. Krishnaa has been reborn. The remaining days of my life I will fight against injustice, adharma, sin. I have sworn that I shall tie up my hair only after washing it in Duhshasan's blood. Otherwise, these tresses will ever remain loose. Though the world may call me an ogress because of this, the world must know that woman who creates, is auspicious, is also the destroyer of the sinful and the wicked. It is after washing my hair in Duhshasan's blood that I shall tie it up " Duhshasan who, regarding woman as weak, dragged me by the hair and insulted me. Then will the world know that while a woman's heart is delicate, it is not weak. O Krishna, if you do not help in fulfilling my vow, then this lovely creation of yours shall be crushed under the weight of sin." Hearing my grim words Krishna was pleased. Reassuring me, he said, "Krishnaa, your anger and vow are just. Those who insulted you, those who looked upon you with lustful eyes in the assembly-hall, who encouraged sin " all of them will be laid low on the battlefield by the arrows of your husband, Phalguni. In the great war, Dhrishtadyumna will destroy Drona; Shikhandi will kill Bhishma; Bhim's mace will shatter Duryodhan's thigh; Dhananjay's arrow will slay Karna. Because of you, many kshatriyas will die. After your insult in the Kuru court, this earth cannot be saved from a great war. In age after age the breast of mother earth runs red with the blood of the wicked.

Pratibha Ray ( ). Yajnaseni: The Story of Draupadi (Kindle Locations 3601-3612). . Kindle Edition.

Edited by bheegi - 11 years ago

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Medha.S

@Medha.S

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#310

So did anyone read The Outcaste Queen?

I thought that Supriya was the second wife ... where did Uruvi come from?

Anyways, even though she is a fictional character, the author has written an endearing personality.

The main character is Karna as seen from the eyes of Uruvi.

If the Starbharat Vrushali gets enraged with Karna for his 'Naughty Words" in the dice hall and tries to leave him you can be certain that they have read this book. Because Uruvi does exactly that.

Also Draupadi was not a loved child when she was born. It reminds you of how Drupada and Dhrishdhyumna talked to her and treated her before she saved their lives.

Both Draupadi and Uruvi are expected to marry Arjuna.

Both of them Love Karna.😆😆

But the loved and protected Princess Uruvi chose her love for Karna over other peoples expectations. She commits "Patiloma" or something like that which is prohibited by Shastras - The Practice of Women marrying Men of lower caste.

While the unloved and neglected Draupadi does what is expected of her and choses Arjuna over Karna and humiliates Karna.

I like the psychological stuff used here though obviously, the author had to make Draupadi an insecure child who is mostly neglected in her Father's Household even though she is born to change the face of Aryavartha

While Uruvi is that princess who is confident that her parents will support her through anything, who will be their for her no matter what decisions she makes.

This is a complete High School movie material.

Two rich girls - One is loved and cherished by her family, other is neglected.

One turns out to be confident and outspoken, someone who makes her decisions herself and is secure in the knowledge of her family's support.

The other neglected rich girl is the one who is desperate for attention and love, doing anything and everything to get her parents to notice her, to love her. She is obedient and does everything they ask her to do but she never gets their love.

Both are in love with the school outcaste.

Both make different choices in their lives.

One chooses to follow her heart and goes for it, makes her move and gets her man. But now that she is the outcast's girlfriend, she is neglected, insulted and hated by the very people who liked her.

While the Neglected Rich girl chooses the Star of the school, you know those Footie Do****b*g jocks on the highest level of the social ladder in school. And the girl starts going up the social ladder, noticed by many. Getting the attention she craved for.

Uruvi is very intelligent and witty, she has a wry sense of humor and i like her.

Her struggle in the Sasuraal is interesting, the first wifey treats her indifferently. Devar is of the opinion that she wont fit in. Parent-in-laws are just awestruck, really.

Uruvi's Swayamvar is again i wonder, if it was something that inspired the Draupadi Swayamvar in Starbharat.

Draupadi got ganged up on by all the great mighty men for insulting them like this, choosing a Brahman when there were so many Kings and Princes there.

Or Amba who was already of the mind that she will marry that one man she has invited. Others getting enraged that why a swayamvar if the groom was already chosen.

Even if not,Most of the works inspired by Draupadi says that the Swayamvara was just a setting to get Arjuna out of hiding, the groom had been already chosen.

"Why did you marry me?' Karna asked quietly, without preamble.Famous first words, Uruvi thought wryly, and definitely not the
most romantic either. She looked at him, her eyes gazing straight into his, undaunted and calm. I married you because I have loved you since the day I first saw you,' she replied with equanimity.
"I invited you because you were the only one I wanted to marry. Had you not turned up, the swayamwara would have been called off and I wouldn't have married anyone else.' The finality of Uruvi's words shocked him. Karna could not help being moved by her determination and love for him.
Watching the small, slight figure in front of him, he felt his
rage subside. She was like a fountain of water, reviving him with the water of life and love. He felt a strange emotion, a surge of protective affection for this woman who had fought so desperately to get him. She had him, yes, she did, Karna thought with a sense of fond pride. He felt the first glow of her love and basked in it. He didn't want to ever see her hurt. He recalled the pain in her eyes when she had been insulted by the angry suitors at her own swayamwara.

Karna knows that he is a doomed man after the Disrobing. Uruvi knows that too. She tries to get the hubby to leave the evil best friend.

But he has made up his mind that even though he knows what Duryodhans is like he will be with his friend and die for him.

This Karna pities Duryodhana and his cruel dark ways, and need for revenge and immorality.

And all I have to say is Pot-Kettles.

Author chose to avoid over the facts that Karna had his own dark humor and need for revenge.

Wanting to visit the forest with their camp, set tents opposite of where Pandavas live and take joy from their misery is dark humor.

And revenge, well.

From revenge, and Pandavas and draupadi.

In this book Draupadi chose to forgive Karna for calling her a 'w***e* and ordering the disrobing.

Because this draupadi believes that after she humiliated Karna by refusing to marry him because he is of a lower caste, it was only fair.🥱

It is Pandavas and Uruvi who are unable to forgive Karna.

Aha ...ha ..

Poor Draupadi got stripped off her own defining qualities. The woman who sat at Krishna's feet and demanded protection and revenge for Karna's ridicule.

Sadly K. Kane's Draupadi is not that woman.

Another interesting thing is Karna's devotion and respect for Krishna. Interesting, very interesting.

Apart from Draupadi's love for Uruvi's husband.

It is amazing that even in a book about Karna's wife, we find this Karna-Drupadi angle.

And there is something very attractive about it i guess. Sadist love-hate thing works anyday anytime. Is it sensual?

One day even i would write a book on them because it will surely make me a best seller author, there is lots of commercial success in this direction.

Perhaps a different take on the movie 'Cruel Intentions' with Karn, Draupadi and one of his wives.

Guess who Karn and Drupadi will be? Kathyrin and Sebastian. I will only have to send Karna's dad to heaven and his mom marry the Widower King Drupada.

Starbharat has already done half of the work for me, Drupada has no wife.😛

So these are my thoughts, what did you think?