Lessons Re-Loaded!!! - Page 14

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Tia.0 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
Payal, rape is a big deal for a woman regardless of which country they belong. The only difference is that in other countries due to police protection, judiciary system and help from society, the woman gets over the trauma whereas in India, after a rape, the woman is harassed by the police, shamed by the society, ridiculed by the justice system and has to live the rest of her life as a rape victim.

Saying that rape is not a big deal for women in other countries is a very insulting comment to make.



Originally posted by: _Payalj_

@ vimal. I didn't say that rape is not a big deal. What I said was that in united States, Canada etc also these crimes take place. And as much as in India.

But in those countries for the women of those countries it is not considered that big a deal as it is in India courtesy the cultural differences. Here the media sensationalises the news as much as it can to milk it. It doesn't make such horrendous acts right but it doesn't mean that India is the most unsafe country in the world.

Whatever incidents you have quoted happen in every country of the world and by that I mean every. No one says they are right or people doing them are correct. But such anti social elements exist everywhere. It is not a India thing it is a human species thing.
And only we Indians have the distinction of constantly clamouring to settle in the western countries as our country is unfit in our own eyes. Instead of doing something for our country we want to label it garbage and run from here. Seems like a hangover from the colonial era.

Also I have nothing against both spouses adjusting. You have read my previous posts on this.

But abusing India, calling it a place unfit to live is neither done nor condonable. I as a self respecting Indian can't condone the demeaning of my country being done.

Tia.0 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
That was exactly my point. Crimes happen everywhere. But the consequences to the crime differs and how the society treats the victim differs. I have heard many modern woman say in India that they feel sorry for the rape victim, but they won't let their brother or son marry one.

With that kind of mentality, how would a trauma victim will ever forget their trauma?

And if rape is considered a stigma for the victim but not for the rapist, then how would a mother of a girl feel safe? How would any woman feel safe when they know that even if the rapists are punished, her punishment will last a lifetime?

Originally posted by: gemini54

My two cents on the current discussion


People are People whether they are white,black, green ,yellow or anything in between. They have to take individual responsibilities for their action. These responsibilities are taught to them by another set of people again their parents, teachers etc and the cycle goes on. I don't believe that a country itself can be termed regressive or progressive based on incidents..living in the US I have heard my share of horror stories too.

So bottom line good values and social responsibility needs to be imparted and strong punishment needs to be meted out for people who commit these horrendous crimes and that is where some countries may differ and this may cause the person committing the crime to think they can get away.

Happy Sunday..great discussions

_Payalj_ thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago

Originally posted by: tia.o

Payal, I am glad that you feel safe in India. Every woman should feel safe in their own country.

But if someone is feeling unsafe because of the daily newspaper articles and leaders of the country defending animals like rapists, then you can't judge them for it.

I was in Delhi with my husband. The way some men were staring at me in broad daylight made my husband uncomfortable and I was wearing a Kurti and a jeans. What other precautions I could have taken so I don't get those "X-Ray" looks?

When my mother tells me to not stay out longer than 8 p.m., I felt unsafe. As a younger girl growing up in India, I used to go out with my friends to parties. Never was I worried nor my mother told me to come home early. But when my mother told me to come home by 8 p.m. yet my friend who was a guy was only told to have a good time with your friends, I felt unsafe.

There are rapes in US and Canada. But the consequences are severe. The moment the victim registers a complaint in police station, instead of asking what they were wearing, they are immediately taken to hospital and DNA samples are collected, the responsible guy is arrested, DNA compared and if it's a match then the guy is punished.

The society rallies behind the victim, no one questions the victims character even if she had multiple boyfriends before. Because consent is a must and is protected by law.

Secondly, marital rape is still not a law in India. Fortunately, my friend or I don't have to worry about that. But if a woman is scared of being raped by the man who should have protected her and of the law which will tell her that if the rape is done by husband it's no big deal whether she agrees or not, you bet I will blame the law of the country.

When tourists complaint of harassment by locals and other countries' website put a caution for women from backpacking in India alone but not for men, you bet I am and my friend are scared.

The locality I grew up in is also one of the safest place. Because I know the people and they know me and my family. But ask me to go to a strange, unknown locality at night, would I still feel as safe? No. Would you feel safe in an unknown, strange locality of your own country?

And when you say most of rape statistics are hoax or blackmailing attempts by women, did you count the numerous rapes that were authentic but never reported because of fear of police, fear of law, fear of shame and fear of victim blaming?

Precautions should be taken based on the place of residence. But if in India, a woman is taking more precautions than men and regardless what she does, she needs to have a male escort to take her home or has to leave early, but even then she might be in danger, it can no longer be called a safe place to live in.

There is nothing wrong asking women or men to adjust, provided adjustment happens from both sides. But the fact is if a woman has to move with a man's family after marriage, she will have to adjust more. There's no denying that. So to make everything equal, a woman should have a choice to move into a man's home or live separately. But didn't I hear about a law that Supreme Court of India passed that if a woman refuses to live with her in-laws her husband can divorce her because she is trying to separate a man from his family which is against Indian culture? Never mind the fact that the man separates the woman from her family, the day she gets married to him. Correct me if the news is wrong. In a country where man and woman having equal rights to everything including education, property etc is enshrined in Constitution, if this law has indeed passed by Supreme Court which openly discriminates against women, should be a fake news. So is it?

Thinking about the children and adjusting is not only the mother's responsibility, it is also the father's responsibility to think about his children and make an example by making their mother happy. If a father do his part and the mother hers, the children will never become a casualty.

I love India and I love the people, the food, the colours, the diversity. It is my country and I miss it. But I am not blind. I also see the inequality, the misery, the underbelly of the country. I love India anyway. But I can't blame a mother of a daughter for wanting to go where she feels safe. I can't judge a person nor tell them how to feel unless I am personally willing to guarantee her safety on behalf of my government, the police and the judiciary system.


Tia, first I will clarify regarding the supreme Court case. There are a lots of points in a case basis which a decision is given. Media picks one which it finds sensational. Also, there is nothing wrong in court saying that a wife can't force a man to stay without his parents if he doesn't want to and if she is forcing him, it is a valid ground for divorce. I am sure even in Canada it would be a valid ground for divorce. A wife can't force a husband to stay without his parents like a husband can't force his wife to stay without her parents. In a marriage both have their own terms and if you can't agree to it, then one of the parties has the right to back out. You can't force him to stay in the relationship on your terms and conditions.

Newspapers had a field day reporting this but do they ever report that laws in India are so partial that if a woman goes and makes a complaint against her husband the police will first put behind bars everyone of the inlaws family and then start investigating. The DIL can take the entire family jewellery whether it belongs to her or not and the inlaws have no right to protest.

These laws are being misused left right and centre but how many newspaper's are highlighting it?

Regarding going put anytime of the night - even in USA a woman is susceptible if she goes out at odd hours. Anti social elements are everywhere. Also will not a man be robbed if he goes out alone at 2am in a dark alley wearing a gold chain and watch. He will most probably be murdered. Same applies to women. Common sense has to be used.

Regarding Delhi and it's culture I know it is bad with respect to women. But is running away or bad mouthing our country the correct way or helping change it the correct one? We are the country. When we change the country changes. It has already come a long way and today is one of the safest and one if the fastest developing countries of the world.


Tia.0 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
@Vimal, very very well said. You worked in NGO and I have volunteered in women's shelter in both countries. So I have seen the trauma, the helplessness, the constant questions about what they could have done to avoid the incident.
When police asks them what they were wearing and look at them as if they are not worthy of justice, when judiciary system ask them to describe the incident in detail every time the cases go to court, when the lawyers get to point fingers at their character and if they are lucky and the rapists get punished, the society tags on their head for the rest of their life as rape victim, we can't say it is a safe place for women.
If it was, then like other countries, women will get a chance to get over their trauma, get married, have children. And society will only remember them by their name and their contribution to the society, not as a rape victim.
VIMAL.SM thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago

Originally posted by: _Payalj_


In a western country when a woman is raped she will never equate it with shame. It is violence as it should be. But in Indian culture it will be connected with her honour. Very very wrong I know and agree but this is the way it is. Slowly this culture is changing and hopefully within the next 10 years it will disappear completely
But currently it affects the woman very badly in India as it is connected with chastity especially in the smaller towns.

. Hence the public outrage and the media hyenas having a field day. This chastity problem doesn't happen in West hence the media there will get nothing out of sensationalising it.

Further pointing wrongs in a country is not wrong. Every country has them and has to overcome them to grow. But calling India unfit for living and saying that it is better to stay abroad is just not done. For me India will and shall always remain the best country in the world - as it is my motherland.



@Bold - Now I get it. I agree.In India they connect it with family Honor.Which is very wrong.That's why some women.Shy away from filing complaint.Even in Domestic violence case.Now things r changing.Glad some NGO's r helping Women to stand against this crime.Make them see it as a Crime.Not to worry that it will damage their family Honor.Culprits should be punished.

@Red - I understand your sentiment.

Tinkerfairy thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
Awesome views guys👏 I just wanted to pointed out to those who are defending dev's drunken state and saying he has done "sacrifice" for sonakshi by insulting her deliberately . What will be their justification of almost raising hand on her .🤢 are they really going to give justification of physical violence .🤢 I have read someone's post this fallout was majorly sona's fault since she didn't understand him and didn't trust him."team dev"yuck.
VIMAL.SM thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
@Tia - There are rapes in US and Canada. But the consequences are severe. The moment the victim registers a complaint in police station, instead of asking what they were wearing, they are immediately taken to hospital and DNA samples are collected, the responsible guy is arrested, DNA compared and if it's a match then the guy is punished.

This immediate action is what lacks in India.There r lot of procedures.Women get questioned.Juvenile get special preference.This is what I want to change.Immediate action.Culprits r punished ASAP.Don't drag.If a 16 year old involved in rape.I don't consider him as Juvenile.I hope change happens in India.Every Women feel safe in India.

Edited by VIMAL.M - 8 years ago
VIMAL.SM thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago

Originally posted by: Tinkerfairy

Awesome views guys👏 I just wanted to pointed out to those who are defending dev's drunken state and saying he has done "sacrifice" for sonakshi by insulting her deliberately . What will be their justification of almost raising hand on her .🤢 are they really going to give justification of physical violence .🤢 I have read someone's post this fallout was majorly sona's fault since she didn't understand him and didn't trust him."team dev"yuck.



When they can say Dev slapped Bijoy.Because Bijoy was shouting.They can say.Dev raised hand.Just to make Sona get angry on him.

In Twitter there is a thing called Team Dev.They defend Dev so much.Even Mamta supports them.It just reflects the society mind set.Men r right under any circumstances.Women r wrong.Sona has lack of trust on Dev.As if Dev trusted Sona so much.
Tia.0 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
To answer your question first, in Canada a valid ground for divorce would be, in similar circumstances, if a wife held a knife on the husband's neck to force him to leave his family. Because then she used violence against him in the form of threat.

How else can you force someone to do something they don't want to do? Apply physical force which in most cases don't work on adult men by adult women.

You can refuse to live with your husband's family and ask your husband to move out with you. That is not a force. That is a demand.

Now if the man refuses to move out, he can get divorced provided they split their entire marital property in half and hand over her half of everything.

That's how it will work in Canada. If my husband tells me to get out for whatever reason, I can leave and go to the nearest hotel (I won't be at the street begging), call a lawyer who will fight my case pro-bono which means free of cost to me. Everything since our marriage we acquired plus the marital house will be assessed and split in the middle and I will have my share to live my life even if I am a housewife and my husband is the sole earner.

Why? Because in Canada husband and wife are considered an unit by law. If a husband earns money, the wife turns that money into food, raising children and other household tasks and the same applies to stay at home husbands. So it's not just the husband's money or the wife's money, it's the family's money.

Coming back to your point. In a marriage if one party backs out because the terms they agreed on is no longer favourable, then as long as the marital property, money, providend fund etc. everything is divided in half and given to the party leaving that's fine. She can move on and so can he. Was there a provision made for that?

I can counter-argue that a husband promises to provide a safe, respectful and secured environment for his wife which due to his family, he failed to provide. So the terms were broken from his side first.

Of course you can't arrest in-laws without an arrest warrant and for that you need sufficient proof. It's not as easy as they show on TV. And if there's proof, they will be arrested and then they can get a bail within hours. Now if the proof is fake, then during investigation it will be revealed who trapped whom and proper party will be punished. So there is nothing to worry if you trust the law, police and judiciary system of your country. But if you have no trust in them, you should be worried. Since you trust them, I don't see the cause for concern there.

What I am saying here is the hardcore truth. That's not bad mouthing a country. Calling a lier, a lier is speaking the truth. Calling a truthful person a lier is bad mouthing. If speaking the truth tarnishes National pride then the nation needs massive fix. Because the truth itself is tarnishing its image.

You are right. Running away is not an option. The country needs to change, change it. It's upto you and other Indian living in India. By all means defend the country verbally, but take action to change the country's mentality starting with stricter law to protect women and leaders in power condemning violence against women and not endorsing it.

However, I thought after Nirbhaya incident it will happen. But everything died down. Did anyone ask her parents that if they would feel safe in their country or if they have an option to raise another girl elsewhere would they stay put in India? People who got victimized or who suffered the horror are never asked that question.

Do you know who is Suzette Jordan? No? She was a single mother of two children. She was a good mother who was raising her kids. But she is not famous for that. She is famous as Park Street Rape Victim. That became her identity. Because of that she continued to be raped by media, the society even after her rape incident was over.

Even chief minister of a progressive state of West-Bengal called her a lier and said she is tarnishing the National image for speaking the truth even though everyone of the accused were found guilty.

After the rapists were punished, she tried to live a normal life. She went to a restaurant and denied entry. Why? She was a rape victim.

So ask her daughters if they are given a chance to go live in another country would they still live in India?

I understand that you love India and for you it is the best place to live. I am not asking you to change your opinion. In fact I am happy for you.

But people who are safe and never faced any major trauma like you and me, are in no position to judge others and that includes my friend.





Originally posted by: _Payalj_


Tia, first I will clarify regarding the supreme Court case. There are a lots of points in a case basis which a decision is given. Media picks one which it finds sensational. Also, there is nothing wrong in court saying that a wife can't force a man to stay without his parents if he doesn't want to and if she is forcing him, it is a valid ground for divorce. I am sure even in Canada it would be a valid ground for divorce. A wife can't force a husband to stay without his parents like a husband can't force his wife to stay without her parents. In a marriage both have their own terms and if you can't agree to it, then one of the parties has the right to back out. You can't force him to stay in the relationship on your terms and conditions.

Newspapers had a field day reporting this but do they ever report that laws in India are so partial that if a woman goes and makes a complaint against her husband the police will first put behind bars everyone of the inlaws family and then start investigating. The DIL can take the entire family jewellery whether it belongs to her or not and the inlaws have no right to protest.

These laws are being misused left right and centre but how many newspaper's are highlighting it?

Regarding going put anytime of the night - even in USA a woman is susceptible if she goes out at odd hours. Anti social elements are everywhere. Also will not a man be robbed if he goes out alone at 2am in a dark alley wearing a gold chain and watch. He will most probably be murdered. Same applies to women. Common sense has to be used.

Regarding Delhi and it's culture I know it is bad with respect to women. But is running away or bad mouthing our country the correct way or helping change it the correct one? We are the country. When we change the country changes. It has already come a long way and today is one of the safest and one if the fastest developing countries of the world.


Edited by tia.o - 8 years ago
Tia.0 thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
Another example of the mentality of the society. When a man raises a hand, it's of course the woman's fault.

Originally posted by: Tinkerfairy

Awesome views guys👏 I just wanted to pointed out to those who are defending dev's drunken state and saying he has done "sacrifice" for sonakshi by insulting her deliberately . What will be their justification of almost raising hand on her .🤢 are they really going to give justification of physical violence .🤢 I have read someone's post this fallout was majorly sona's fault since she didn't understand him and didn't trust him."team dev"yuck.

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