Definition of Gender - Page 4

Originally posted by: gemini54

@rogerrocks

I always love the different perspective you bring to the table.

I am sorry if this is personal you quote a lot of Tamil films are you Tamil speaking?.. You dont have to answer if you dont want to was just curious

Originally posted by: rogerrocks

I find this whole discussion extremely fascinating. Not from the point of view of this show but in general. Cos as far as soaps are concerned, most reactions are dictated by the fact that fans are emotionally invested in the lead couple and their chemistry. So more than gender discrimination and misogynist nature, its a simple case of fans not being able to see either of the leads with a third wheel. I mean there was this old Hindi show (which was ridiculous in every way but a rage back in the day 😆) where the girl was obnoxious in every which way..I mean that woman called her ex (the male lead) and made out with her husband (who she had no feelings for) just to prove a point 😆 And fans still shipped the two cos they had great chemistry..This is frankly nothing in comparison and like i said, more than gender disparity, most reactions are dictated by the fact that they are invested in the lead couple.

Now if we were to forget the show, chemistry and basically Dev-Sona-Ishwari for a moment and look at this as a stand alone situation, that is when i find most reactions quite fascinating. So a woman shouldn't be judged for attempting to move on after a break up..Agreed. Her love shouldn't be questioned just because she chose to move on within 5 days or 10 days or whatever. Agreed. In fact, i'd go as far as saying a woman has every right to move on quickly even if she was the one who initiated the break up and dumped the guy for whatever reasons..Even if it means she lost interest in the guy and couldn't see him that way anymore and even if he was an absolutely fabulous guy who made for the best boyfriend in the world..Its her choice at the end of the day..But then my question is why is a woman judged if she chooses not to move on? Why is that looked at as 'lack of self respect'? Trust me, am quite cynical and i believe that 'true love' or 'all consuming love where you cant think beyond your partner' is toxic and can destroy lives. But am also one of those who thinks 'to each his own'. I find it interesting that ppl think a woman lacks self-respect if she chooses to love a guy who ditched her/broke up with her for whatever reason(cos trust me ppl do lose their head and all sense of rationality in love😆 ). On the other hand, when a guy pines for the girl, its looked at as romantic. Why the discrimination? There is this film called Vinnathandi Varuvaya ( remade terribly in Hindi as Ek Haseena Thi) where the girl really treats the guy in a shabby manner and eventually moves on and marries another guy without even bothering to have a face to face conversation with her boyfriend (she tells him over phone that it wont work). Yet in the end when she asks him to move on, he says he tried. Still does but the way he felt when he saw her, he just cannot get himself to feel that way for another girl. Everyone found it romantic. Though i know for a fact that if the genders flipped and the girl was treated the same way and she still chose to love him, it would be looked at as regressive (I probably would judge the girl too 😆)..Like i mentioned earlier, i really do find the contrast fascinating which is probably why i ended up writing this essay😆 Just the difference in reactions when a girl moves on as opposed to a guy moving on..And at the same time, the opposite reactions when a girl chooses not to move on for whatever reason v a guy choosing to do the same..

Originally posted by: gemini54

Thanks for answering the question did not mean to get personal..I am basically the same a mix of mallu and Tamil too. I love your way of thinking and enjoy your posts and what I love about this forum is that people with differing views co exist well and that is good.. This is the only forum I have been active on

Originally posted by: rogerrocks

I find this whole discussion extremely fascinating. Not from the point of view of this show but in general. Cos as far as soaps are concerned, most reactions are dictated by the fact that fans are emotionally invested in the lead couple and their chemistry. So more than gender discrimination and misogynist nature, its a simple case of fans not being able to see either of the leads with a third wheel. I mean there was this old Hindi show (which was ridiculous in every way but a rage back in the day 😆) where the girl was obnoxious in every which way..I mean that woman called her ex (the male lead) and made out with her husband (who she had no feelings for) just to prove a point 😆 And fans still shipped the two cos they had great chemistry..This is frankly nothing in comparison and like i said, more than gender disparity, most reactions are dictated by the fact that they are invested in the lead couple.

Now if we were to forget the show, chemistry and basically Dev-Sona-Ishwari for a moment and look at this as a stand alone situation, that is when i find most reactions quite fascinating. So a woman shouldn't be judged for attempting to move on after a break up..Agreed. Her love shouldn't be questioned just because she chose to move on within 5 days or 10 days or whatever. Agreed. In fact, i'd go as far as saying a woman has every right to move on quickly even if she was the one who initiated the break up and dumped the guy for whatever reasons..Even if it means she lost interest in the guy and couldn't see him that way anymore and even if he was an absolutely fabulous guy who made for the best boyfriend in the world..Its her choice at the end of the day..But then my question is why is a woman judged if she chooses not to move on? Why is that looked at as 'lack of self respect'? Trust me, am quite cynical and i believe that 'true love' or 'all consuming love where you cant think beyond your partner' is toxic and can destroy lives. But am also one of those who thinks 'to each his own'. I find it interesting that ppl think a woman lacks self-respect if she chooses to love a guy who ditched her/broke up with her for whatever reason(cos trust me ppl do lose their head and all sense of rationality in love😆 ). On the other hand, when a guy pines for the girl, its looked at as romantic. Why the discrimination? There is this film called Vinnathandi Varuvaya ( remade terribly in Hindi as Ek Haseena Thi) where the girl really treats the guy in a shabby manner and eventually moves on and marries another guy without even bothering to have a face to face conversation with her boyfriend (she tells him over phone that it wont work). Yet in the end when she asks him to move on, he says he tried. Still does but the way he felt when he saw her, he just cannot get himself to feel that way for another girl. Everyone found it romantic. Though i know for a fact that if the genders flipped and the girl was treated the same way and she still chose to love him, it would be looked at as regressive (I probably would judge the girl too 😆)..Like i mentioned earlier, i really do find the contrast fascinating which is probably why i ended up writing this essay😆 Just the difference in reactions when a girl moves on as opposed to a guy moving on..And at the same time, the opposite reactions when a girl chooses not to move on for whatever reason v a guy choosing to do the same..

Originally posted by: BoxedIn

Very interesting points raised here.

I watch this show off and on but gather that it has a more urban vibe than your average SP-Colors shows, and that Sona has been shown to be an independent woman of the times, brought up by a very open-minded family. A background like that raises certain expectations in the audience, I think. They would want her to react differently than, say, a Gopi Bahu or even an Anandi. I think we are all, to an extent, guilty of playing to the stereotypes on both ends...if a barely educated, small-town desi tv heroine is expected to be a doormat who stands by her man and his family at all cost and great sacrifices, an urban, educated, independent heroine is perceived to be "strong" and "self-respecting" and should stand up to every abuse and injustice directed at her in order to be "true" to her character, all without crying too much about it. On the surface, both these model heroines seem to be poles apart but dig a little deeper and you'll find that most of the audience demands perfection from heroines...different kinds of perfection, but impossible ones, nevertheless. 😆 Tbh this dichotomy exists in the characterisation of male leads too...there's a whole spectrum there from Sooraj/Ahem dikras to the worst of the Gul and Ekta bad-boy heroes, but the general consensus seems to be that as long as male leads are interesting in some way, no flaw in them is irredeemable, a leeway which female leads very rarely get.

Then, of course, there's the matter of who is watching the show, the target audience...a mostly young, internet-friendly viewership, which is well-versed in the popular contemporary discussions on feminism and gender politics etc, will take to characters in a different way than your more sedate, older viewer who watches tv for time-pass between chores and needs (melo)drama more than subtlety, nuance, or pc behavior. These are all general observations of course; exceptions exist everywhere.

With you about leaving each person to his own...everyone approaches relationships differently and it's no one's business judging them for it as long as they're not harming someone through their conduct. That said, I feel it is important for the audience to judge fictional characters in books, movies, tv shows, wherever...fiction is this safe space to examine our own prejudices and come across different parameters of examining human behavior. And the ensuing fan fights are sometimes fun! 😆

Originally posted by: rogerrocks

Your point about viewers expecting the female lead to be perfect is quite interesting. My issue with most Telly soaps is the exact opposite. The reason why a certain section seems okay with the male lead having flaws is because its highlighted as a flaw. Something which is wrong and which needs to be rectified/redeemed. Of course most shows have half baked redemption tracks but the mistakes are atleast acknowledged as flaws. On the contrary. most shows esp. Ekta and Gul K ones) have the habit of glorifying every single aspect of the female lead. Even annoying character traits like clumsiness, absolute lack of decency and decorum, crass behavior, overtly interfering nature, taking decisions on behalf of everyone and ruining multiples lives in the name of sacrifice etc. are all passed off as sanskari and mahaan. And worst case scenario, if the female lead effs up, the male lead is made to do something worse just so the balance always remains in favor of the bahu/female lead 😆 There are very few shows which don't follow that pattern. I would personally love to see shows where the both the leads are highly flawed and the female lead is not the overtly mature, perfect one with God complex provided both their flaws are acknowledged and eventually rectified/ dealt with in which ever way 😆

Originally posted by: rogerrocks

I find this whole discussion extremely fascinating. Not from the point of view of this show but in general. Cos as far as soaps are concerned, most reactions are dictated by the fact that fans are emotionally invested in the lead couple and their chemistry. So more than gender discrimination and misogynist nature, its a simple case of fans not being able to see either of the leads with a third wheel. I mean there was this old Hindi show (which was ridiculous in every way but a rage back in the day 😆) where the girl was obnoxious in every which way..I mean that woman called her ex (the male lead) and made out with her husband (who she had no feelings for) just to prove a point 😆 And fans still shipped the two cos they had great chemistry..This is frankly nothing in comparison and like i said, more than gender disparity, most reactions are dictated by the fact that they are invested in the lead couple.

Now if we were to forget the show, chemistry and basically Dev-Sona-Ishwari for a moment and look at this as a stand alone situation, that is when i find most reactions quite fascinating. So a woman shouldn't be judged for attempting to move on after a break up..Agreed. Her love shouldn't be questioned just because she chose to move on within 5 days or 10 days or whatever. Agreed. In fact, i'd go as far as saying a woman has every right to move on quickly even if she was the one who initiated the break up and dumped the guy for whatever reasons..Even if it means she lost interest in the guy and couldn't see him that way anymore and even if he was an absolutely fabulous guy who made for the best boyfriend in the world..Its her choice at the end of the day..But then my question is why is a woman judged if she chooses not to move on? Why is that looked at as 'lack of self respect'? Trust me, am quite cynical and i believe that 'true love' or 'all consuming love where you cant think beyond your partner' is toxic and can destroy lives. But am also one of those who thinks 'to each his own'. I find it interesting that ppl think a woman lacks self-respect if she chooses to love a guy who ditched her/broke up with her for whatever reason(cos trust me ppl do lose their head and all sense of rationality in love😆 ). On the other hand, when a guy pines for the girl, its looked at as romantic. Why the discrimination? There is this film called Vinnathandi Varuvaya ( remade terribly in Hindi as Ek Haseena Thi) where the girl really treats the guy in a shabby manner and eventually moves on and marries another guy without even bothering to have a face to face conversation with her boyfriend (she tells him over phone that it wont work). Yet in the end when she asks him to move on, he says he tried. Still does but the way he felt when he saw her, he just cannot get himself to feel that way for another girl. Everyone found it romantic. Though i know for a fact that if the genders flipped and the girl was treated the same way and she still chose to love him, it would be looked at as regressive (I probably would judge the girl too 😆)..Like i mentioned earlier, i really do find the contrast fascinating which is probably why i ended up writing this essay😆 Just the difference in reactions when a girl moves on as opposed to a guy moving on..And at the same time, the opposite reactions when a girl chooses not to move on for whatever reason v a guy choosing to do the same..