Farman of Akbar and Goverdhan Temple : Janmashtmi Special - Page 2

Originally posted by: harshu27

hii abhay wish u 2 a HAPP JANMASHTAMI and 2 all...thnx fr sharing d post...last time I rember u hd shared similar info abt dis saint...it ws really v interesting...I wuld luv 2 read dis post related 2 dis saint and dis temple whch is quiet famous... 😃

Harshu,
Hope you also had a nice Janmashtmi. :)

You are correct. Last time also, a farman regarding this saint was shared.
Do share your views, after reading.

Thanks for bringing this farman to read for us. He held high tolerance towards all religion and special regards towards krishana. In todays world if we follow him can bring harmony.

Originally posted by: Rasika29

Happy Janmashtami Abhay and everyone...

Interesting post indeed...will comment on blog after reading in detail...😳

Thanks Rasika.
Do share your views after going through it.!

Originally posted by: devkidmd

Now this is the Akbar we know and love.

What a fascinating journey!

It doesn't matter where you are only where you are headed.

One thing I would like to say is that we cannot ignore the influence of the people surrounding Akbar in his evolution into a more tolerant ruler.

Nature and nurture both are important. Most of us are the product of our environment.

I found it a little surprising that the imperial servants would blatantly disobey Akbar's orders and harass Shri Vithal Rai. I am sure they were aware that this was someone who was revered by Akbar's chief queen. That too in Mathura and not some far flung territory.

Did you personally take the pictures of the old temple Abhay? They are beautiful.

Thanks once again for a great post.

Devki

Devki,

I am in complete confirmity with your views in bold. Almost nothing can be added to improve it. We already have conducted lots of discussion about this. Not written any proper reply since last many days, writing one today. :)

Now this is an interesting question regarding disobeying the orders of the ruler. But, this is true at the same time.

You saw that, first Akbar gave a farman to this saint.
http://mariam-uz-zamani.blogspot.com/2015/06/first-farman-of-akbar-vithalrai-gokul.html

Later, it had to be re-inforced by the farman of Mariam Makani when she ordered no one should harass this saint.
http://mariam-uz-zamani.blogspot.com/2014/12/farman-of-hamida-banu-begum-with-scan.html

Inspite of all this, the present farman, which came after many other farmans of Akbar clearly mentions that no one should harass the saint, and no bribes, etc. should be demanded from him ; which clearly re-inforces one point - such things happened despite the liberal policies of rulers.

And this is quite understandable, Akbar ruled from Agra, and later from Lahore, before coming back to Agra. But, his empire was big enough. We can not guarantee that all his officers will follow the principles which were laid down by him. Some of them might be guided by some narrow minded ideas.

This is same as any modern day government in any country. The government may launch any number of good policies for the citizens but they will not show results unless the bureaucracy which works at the grass root level also shows a similar zeal for implementing them with honesty.

Same was the case in medieval times. When such things could happen even in Agra, near Akbar. Then, they may happen in other areas as well. The same rationality can not be expected from their officers, who were not so broad minded.

I did not want to write/leak it now only. :-P

But the topic is such that i am tempted to write about this. A foreign traveller came to India in late 16th Century and he has mentioned an interesting observation about the religious freedom given to the citizens. He mentions that he was FORCED by a Maulvi in Lahore regarding his religion and faith, and to offer the prayers in mosque. Note that all this happened despite Akbar staying in Lahore itself that time.

The traveller mentions, he complained to Akbar about this, and Akbar called the maulvi and admonished the maulvi before everyone. The traveller also mentions about Akbar, Salim and Mariam-Uz-Zamani. His words about the honor commanded by the Queen of Hindustan - the mother of Salim, in the court was interesting ; and also the praise of religious freedom given by Akbar.

I read this last year, but could not post it till now, though i shared on Twitter already. This will be a future post, i have to collect the scans from this account which i am searching.

There is also a farman of Akbar given around 1601-02 to his officers in Gujarat where he orders them, not to demolish the temples. Prince Daniyal was the one who saw that the orders of Akbar were fulfilled without any laxity.

One may note that, though Akbar was liberal in this time, but his officers in Gujarat were not. There is a difference between the ruler and actual officers. I gave the example of government policies and bureaucracy.

Orthodoxy was the norm of that age, the rulers could understand and behave in a broad manner, but not their officers who were mostly guided by narrow principles. Exceptions may be there.

Remember the saying which i keep on mentioning many times ? -> "Religion is the opium of masses. It is the soul of soul-less society, and heart of heartless world. "

They rulers are mature people who know when to "use" it and when not to, like Akbar "used" it in Chittor. Radhika's comment was awesome, the journey of Akbar from early part of his life to the end is enough to fascinate anyone who views all his actions.

You might have seen the party cadres of 2 rival parties "clashing" with each other, but you will never find the highly placed leaders of the same party clashing with each other despite any amount of rivalry. On the other hand, they might be presiding over the same function at that time. :-P
The moral is again the same, as i mentioned in above.

Also, one of the reasons for translating the Sanskrit works of ancient India, etc. into Persian was given as follows by Fazl - "To remove the venomous feelings between the communities. " Unless, you know the culture properly, you can not 'understand' what the other community really believes in.

I did not take the pictures of temple myself, but obtained them from someone who stays there only. I have visited this temple many times. I am glad you and many others liked this post. :)

Originally posted by: history_geek

Devki,

I am in complete confirmity with your views in bold. Almost nothing can be added to improve it. We already have conducted lots of discussion about this. Not written any proper reply since last many days, writing one today. :)

Now this is an interesting question regarding disobeying the orders of the ruler. But, this is true at the same time.

You saw that, first Akbar gave a farman to this saint.
http://mariam-uz-zamani.blogspot.com/2015/06/first-farman-of-akbar-vithalrai-gokul.html

Later, it had to be re-inforced by the farman of Mariam Makani when she ordered no one should harass this saint.
http://mariam-uz-zamani.blogspot.com/2014/12/farman-of-hamida-banu-begum-with-scan.html

Inspite of all this, the present farman, which came after many other farmans of Akbar clearly mentions that no one should harass the saint, and no bribes, etc. should be demanded from him ; which clearly re-inforces one point - such things happened despite the liberal policies of rulers.

And this is quite understandable, Akbar ruled from Agra, and later from Lahore, before coming back to Agra. But, his empire was big enough. We can not guarantee that all his officers will follow the principles which were laid down by him. Some of them might be guided by some narrow minded ideas.

This is same as any modern day government in any country. The government may launch any number of good policies for the citizens but they will not show results unless the bureaucracy which works at the grass root level also shows a similar zeal for implementing them with honesty.

Same was the case in medieval times. When such things could happen even in Agra, near Akbar. Then, they may happen in other areas as well. The same rationality can not be expected from their officers, who were not so broad minded.

I did not want to write/leak it now only. :-P

But the topic is such that i am tempted to write about this. A foreign traveller came to India in late 16th Century and he has mentioned an interesting observation about the religious freedom given to the citizens. He mentions that he was FORCED by a Maulvi in Lahore regarding his religion and faith, and to offer the prayers in mosque. Note that all this happened despite Akbar staying in Lahore itself that time.

The traveller mentions, he complained to Akbar about this, and Akbar called the maulvi and admonished the maulvi before everyone. The traveller also mentions about Akbar, Salim and Mariam-Uz-Zamani. His words about the honor commanded by the Queen of Hindustan - the mother of Salim, in the court was interesting ; and also the praise of religious freedom given by Akbar.

I read this last year, but could not post it till now, though i shared on Twitter already. This will be a future post, i have to collect the scans from this account which i am searching.

There is also a farman of Akbar given around 1601-02 to his officers in Gujarat where he orders them, not to demolish the temples. Prince Daniyal was the one who saw that the orders of Akbar were fulfilled without any laxity.

One may note that, though Akbar was liberal in this time, but his officers in Gujarat were not. There is a difference between the ruler and actual officers. I gave the example of government policies and bureaucracy.

Orthodoxy was the norm of that age, the rulers could understand and behave in a broad manner, but not their officers who were mostly guided by narrow principles. Exceptions may be there.

Remember the saying which i keep on mentioning many times ? -> "Religion is the opium of masses. It is the soul of soul-less society, and heart of heartless world. "

They rulers are mature people who know when to "use" it and when not to, like Akbar "used" it in Chittor. Radhika's comment was awesome, the journey of Akbar from early part of his life to the end is enough to fascinate anyone who views all his actions.

You might have seen the party cadres of 2 rival parties "clashing" with each other, but you will never find the highly placed leaders of the same party clashing with each other despite any amount of rivalry. On the other hand, they might be presiding over the same function at that time. :-P
The moral is again the same, as i mentioned in above.

Also, one of the reasons for translating the Sanskrit works of ancient India, etc. into Persian was given as follows by Fazl - "To remove the venomous feelings between the communities. " Unless, you know the culture properly, you can not 'understand' what the other community really believes in.

I did not take the pictures of temple myself, but obtained them from someone who stays there only. I have visited this temple many times. I am glad you and many others liked this post. :)

Abhay, thanks for sharing this invaluable piece of information about the Goverdhan Temple and Akbar's 'farman' to protect saint Vithal Rai. You couldn't have chosen a better occasion than Janmashtami to provide us readers across the globe, the finer details of this historic 'farman.'

Originally posted by: melovesja

Thanks for bringing this farman to read for us. He held high tolerance towards all religion and special regards towards krishana. In todays world if we follow him can bring harmony.

Thank you buddy. Even if follow some of his policies in today's world, still a lot of good can be achieved.

What an interesting post.
Your post exemplifies the saying 'history is a mystery'

Yes agree with the comments of others that Akbar was an enigma.
No wonder he got the title 'Akbar'.

The BBC series titled ' treasures of the Indus' quoted that Akbar was the first person to be credited with unifying parts of the country now known as India.

It had
Mentioned that huge hunting towers were built to chase the animals and then get the thrill of killing them. On one such occasions he was exalted to such a state that vowed not to hunt anymore and also became a vegetarian.

Such was he that there were several rooms allocated for religious discussions and debate in Fatehpur Sikri.

Alas his successors did not continue it as they followed the strict codes of Islam not the generous style bestowed by Akbar.

Tfs
The govarsham temple will be on my list to visit one day if fate has it.

Originally posted by: devkidmd

@ blue: Isn't it sad that none of his successors built on the solid foundation that Akbar left? Waiting for the post about this traveller.

So the court was at Lahore at the time.

Thanks for a very informative reply. I will be copying my replies to the blog. Just haven't had the chance to visit for sometime.

Devki

Devki,

Akbar shifted capital to Lahore in mid 1580's. There are remains of Akbar's era in Lahore Fort till present day. Some remains of temples in fort hojras are also present there. The fort suffered lots of damage during the Anglo-Sikh wars in mid 19th century.

Do visit the blog at leisure. :)

Akbar's successors did follow his policies, especially Jahangir and Shah Jahan did to a great extent, barring some incidents which are present in Akbar's reign also. We can blame Aurangzeb for many reasons, but the picture is not so easy to understand as we all believe.

All the rulers wanted to increase their dominions, like Akbar. Same was done by Jahangir and Shah Jahan also. All of them had good as well as bad in varying proportions. The "good" of Akbar exceeds all of them. That's the major difference.

Shah Jahan even wanted to reclaim the lost Central Asian frontiers, because that was his ancestors' home land. Aurangzeb wanted to do the same - expansion of empire, in the process he made enemies. While his Akbar, Jahangir and Shah Jahan had almost settled the issues of Northern India, Aurangzeb was left to handle the Southern part. This would certainly bring him in conflict with the various dynasties which were ruling there.

Another thing - North India is mostly a plain. Armies can fight easily in plains. Mughals had superior numbers. But South India, right from Vindhya Ranges, starts with a tough terrain and that territory was new in comparison, for the Mughals. So it was tough to fight there, though in the end Aurangzeb reached right deep into South.

Otherwise we know, Shivaji gave great trouble to Aurangzeb as he had hill forts. Similarly, earlier Pratap did the same against Akbar, as he had his abode in the Aravalli hills. Both used guerilla warfare to a great extent.

Akbar, Jahangir and Aurangzeb made "friends" also along with "enemies".
Jahangir recruited Marathas in Mughal army in his times. {Fact not known to many.}
Shah Jahan speaks fondly of his Rathore cousins of Jodhpur from mother's side in his biography Padshahnama.

But, Aurangzeb made more enemies than friends. Jodhpur and Amer were his staunch supporters earlier, later they too deserted him. You must be knowing how Raja Jai Singh of Amer brought Shivaji to Mughal court on respectable terms ; but what happened later on.

His "Intolerance" was his weapon to achieve those objectives, when he could not achieve them easily. You must be remembering the Fathanama of Akbar till now.
The rule of monarchs is same - First try to achive the objective easily and when it is not possible then go for any means.

On his death bed, Aurangzeb said - I am responsible for the destruction of this empire. He was sure, that he made many enemies and his successors would not be able to cope up. He could foresee. One thing - the empire was very big and secondly there was no "loyal" supporter left who could stand along with his successors.

His successor, his 67 year old son, tried hard to win the Marathas and Rajputs to his side, though it was too late. The power of Peshwas was on the rise and BajiRao simply gave a fatal blow, and there was continuous fratricide in Delhi at the same time, which made the former's work easy.

If you are free, do have a look here. Brief one --
http://mariam-uz-zamani.blogspot.in/2014/12/aurangzeb-personality-assessment.html

@All
I am coming to the forum for a short time, so will be late in replies. :)