EK:once upon a time, there lived Salim & Anarkali....DT NT Pg3 - Page 15

Originally posted by: ---Khushi---

Aunty...I think the takhth burning scene was a sort of a saturation point having been reached by Akbar due to his punishing Adham, Atgah's death, MA'S betrayal (Atifa track) & finally MA'S curse...he was lamenting how the takhth was the sole reason for him to have lost his precious ones...his foster Bro, his Ataliq, his precious & beloved Badi Ammijaan...(not that I approve of the scene...jalal needed to vent, but defo NOT by burning the takhth 😆...that was to excite TRP Baba, i thought 😉 )

Another important point to note, Aunty, is that the cvs have disclosed many of MA'S crimes to us, the viewers, but NOT TO JJ......that is bad narration, imho...hence, while we r angry with MA for ALL her crimes, JJ are aware of only a few of them...

And Aunty, though your objections to Adi's theory are valid to a large extent, i would personally prefer to bury them under the licence of cinematic liberty n prefer to blissfully ignore a few inconvenient facts...😆

Otherwise toh Aunty, it will be impossible to enjoy ANY Indian show, where tracks are usually at the mercy of TRPS, & audience reaction/rejection/acceptance...

Am keeping fingers crossed for improvement in storyline...coz, as you yourself said, leap will be suicide for the show...so let the JA story unfold further, with improvements, of course...😃

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Mark my words, Khushi my pet, it will end up with Jalal getting absolution from Mahaam, with Jodha being "forgiven" as a kind of bonus. The way in which Mahaam's ghastly crimes have been papered over is beyond belief. Look out for Jalal crying buckets all over that grimy costume of Mahaam's. And whoever heard of the giver of absolution weeping such torrents of tears?

As for Adiana's take on Jalal and Mahaam on your thread, I am afraid I do not buy any of it. I am repeating below what I had posted there for ease of reference.

I am skipping tonight's 8 pm Jodha Akbar telecast in favour of Adaalat.

Shyamala Aunty

My comments on Adiana's post on your thread,

Very nice going, Adiana - your take reads, as usual, beautifully in its lavish emotionalism - and Khushi, thanks for sharing this with us.

Now I have one question. Take the part in blue below, then go back and rewatch Jalal's bitter outpourings in the takht burning scene. If you want to save time, you can look up my post on that episode, Jodha Akbar 318: Imperial Escapism on Divya's thread here at

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/112610252,

where I have set down his tirade almost verbatim.

Now tell how you can rationalise Jalal's behaviour then, which was AFTER the scene of the curse, with Adiana's superb explanation, which I am afraid I do not buy at all. Jalal is raging and crushed by the curse more than by anything else, and if his initial reaction was so wise, so understanding,so forgiving, then why does he rant like that when he is burning his shaitaani takht?

Nor has there been a single line that he has uttered since then that would buttress the theory that "he has held back from visiting her becoz he does not want to cause her pain of having to see the murderer of her son ". On the contrary, he clearly tells Jodha that there is not even a vestige of insaniyat left in Mahaam, and the wording of his strictures against her visiting Mahaam make it clear that he is afraid that such visits could be dangerous for Jodha and the babies.

If he was so gentle and forgiving and understanding vis a vis Mahaam, and avoided meeting her only to spare her pain, why does he get upset with the idea of Jodha visiting her? Surely Jodha did not have anything to do with Adham's death?

Plus, I object strongly to the use of the phrase "the murderer of her son". Jalal did NOT murder Adham, he meted out just punishment for Adham's innumerable crimes, and we at least should not be using such a term.

To sum up, one cannot construct a theory, no matter how appealing, by omitting contradictory and inconvenient facts. A theory, as Hercule Poirot never tired of stating, has to explain every single fact, or be discarded.

Shyamala /Aunty

Originally posted by: sashashyam

So you are an escapist as well, are you? "A few inconvenient facts", forsooth!😉

Your @blue is true, my dear, but that does not affect my analysis at all, for my take, based on what Jalal raved about in the takht burning episode plus all that he had said about Mahaam subsequently, is that Adiana's interpretation of his behaviour does not hold.

And why do you need to sugarcoat Jalal in this fashion when you can see for yourself that he is no such thing? I love him as he is, and I would love him a lot more if there was a bit of Rhett Butler in him, instead of large dollops of Ashley Wilkes!😉

Shyamala Aunty

Jodha Akbar 334: Mahaam triomphatrix!

Yesternight - I caught the 11 pm repeat telecast and was pleased to see that some of my predictions of the day before, on this thread, had come right;

1) Mahaam did NOT repent for anything she had done for which she had been caught and found guilty - neither the Atifa plot nor even the baddua. No question, therefore, of her confessing and seeking forgiveness for her hidden crimes, beginning with her serial killings of Jalal's unborn children. This was no whimpering, apologising weakling. Good for her.

So there was no question of Jalal giving absolution to a "repenting mother". Sorry, Khushi dear !

It is another matter that Jalal, who is busy first reminiscing about his childhood with his badiammi and then weeping all over her, does not know about 90% of Mahaam's crimes against him and his family. I would have thought the Atifa track would have been bad enough, but apparently all is forgiven provided the criminal is clever enough to be dying. Still, I wonder what he would have done if he had read the whole catalogue of her crimes, beginning with the serial miscarriages.

Jodha of course would not acknowledge these crimes even if they stared her in the face, for she is now fixated on playing the angel of mercy and forgiveness.

2) Mahaam finally deigned to "accept" Jodha, and exactly as I had predicted, Jodha was all gratitude for that and overflowing with respect for the woman who had nearly got her husband assassinated, and had kept Chand Begum in harsh custody for decades out of sheer greed, and managed to drive her out of her mind. Jodha is not bothered now about any of that, for after all Chand Begum was not Mainavati. Or maybe she would have been as full of forgiveness even if it had been Mainavati! Come to think of it, I am sure she would.

3) Mahaam condescended to lift the baddua ( which seems to be like a purchase in a US department store, returnable at will😉 ) not because she had changed her mind, but as a quid pro quo for Jodha having given her the great happiness of getting her Jalal to see her at long last. Now that too was interesting, and in character. I liked the fact that Mahaam kept her end up till the last.

It is another matter that the baddua, like a shraap in the Hindu tradition, apparently cannot be taken back, at least as per Shaguni Bai, and so Hasan and Hussein will have only very short lives, and Ruqaiya's hard own gains will soon be as dust and ashes.

4) Jalal wept enough to flood Agra, again as I had known he would. As for the rest of the grieving multitude, they seemed to be operating on the principle that all is forgiven to one who is dying. 😡

The triad of principals - Jalal, who looked throughout like an undertaker's assistant (who is duty bound to look even more mournful than his boss the undertaker😉 ) and wept like a tap in full flow, a wailing Mahaam who pulled out all the stops and drowned Jalal in an ocean of treacle (it was noteworthy that she had now completely stopped coughing, and was able to deliver all those long lines without being short of breath! 😉) , and Jodha, properly tearful and secretly rejoicing that her "reverse psychology" had worked at last - all hammed away to glory.

The final lesson to be drawn from this display of unbridled emotionalism was that one need not spend one's whole life being loyal to the emperor, ending up by saving him even with your dying breath, as Atgah Khan did, to merit such a grief-filled farewell. Mahaam, by trumping Atgah effortlessly in this regard despite her endless crimes, proved that it is possible to fool at least some people all the time.

Especially those like Jalal who, as I wrote yesterday, seems to be an emotional haemophiliac, bleeding all the time for the assurance that he was truly loved.

I don't know about you folks, but I was hard put to save myself from being drowned as well in this sea of facile sentimentality. Oof...!

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: ---Khushi---

Aunty...the baddua itself was so meaningless...toh the taking back of the baddua was even more meaningless na...😆...

& then Shaggy in the precap...glorifying MA'S curse ...I wish I was a historian, so that I could have sued EK...

They made the most evil person of the show appear like sort of a mini Goddess yesterday...who saluted another one yesterday...😆

Now tell me Aunty, isn't a leap more exciting, with a fresh start?????...These r the very reasons why I feel that maybe a leap could provide a new lease of life to the show...else, this nonsense will continue...😕

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My pet,

I am glad you and I and perhaps Gayatri can form the minority of 3 for this frightful episode. I could hardly sit thru it. But why did you agree with my take only in bits and pieces? I thought you would complain only that it was not harsh enough! And I left out Rajat's awful tuneless warbling, which had me reaching for my (non-existent) ear plugs.

However, I have noted that in a rather sharp comment on Divya's latest thread, where my pieces would surely be totally at odds with 90% of her readers! But I always march to the beat of my own drummer, and this incomprehensible sentimentalising over a dyed in the wool villain who would make Lady Macbeth look like a choir girl is, for me, insufferable.

As for the leap, my dear, take my word for it, it will be worse than what we have now. There is no even passable Salim that I can think of, though it is true that I do not watch more 3/4 serials, and how long can even Ekta drag that track? And Rajat's Jalal will be even more diminished than he is already.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Jodha Akbar 334: Mahaam triomphatrix!

Yesternight - I caught the 11 pm repeat telecast and was pleased to see that some of my predictions of the day before, on this thread, had come right;

1) Mahaam did NOT repent for anything she had done for which she had been caught and found guilty - neither the Atifa plot nor even the baddua. No question, therefore, of her confessing and seeking forgiveness for her hidden crimes, beginning with her serial killings of Jalal's unborn children. This was no whimpering, apologising weakling. Good for her.

So there was no question of Jalal giving absolution to a "repenting mother". Sorry, Khushi dear !

It is another matter that Jalal, who is busy first reminiscing about his childhood with his badiammi and then weeping all over her, does not know about 90% of Mahaam's crimes against him and his family. I would have thought the Atifa track would have been bad enough, but apparently all is forgiven provided the criminal is clever enough to be dying. Still, I wonder what he would have done if he had read the whole catalogue of her crimes, beginning with the serial miscarriages.

Jodha of course would not acknowledge these crimes even if they stared her in the face, for she is now fixated on playing the angel of mercy and forgiveness.

2) Mahaam finally deigned to "accept" Jodha, and exactly as I had predicted, Jodha was all gratitude for that and overflowing with respect for the woman who had nearly got her husband assassinated, and had kept Chand Begum in harsh custody for decades out of sheer greed, and managed to drive her out of her mind. Jodha is not bothered now about any of that, for after all Chand Begum was not Mainavati. Or maybe she would have been as full of forgiveness even if it had been Mainavati! Come to think of it, I am sure she would.

3) Mahaam condescended to lift the baddua ( which seems to be like a purchase in a US department store, returnable at will😉 ) not because she had changed her mind, but as a quid pro quo for Jodha having given her the great happiness of getting her Jalal to see her at long last. Now that too was interesting, and in character. I liked the fact that Mahaam kept her end up till the last.

It is another matter that the baddua, like a shraap in the Hindu tradition, apparently cannot be taken back, at least as per Shaguni Bai, and so Hasan and Hussein will have only very short lives, and Ruqaiya's hard own gains will soon be as dust and ashes.

4) Jalal wept enough to flood Agra, again as I had known he would. As for the rest of the grieving multitude, they seemed to be operating on the principle that all is forgiven to one who is dying. 😡

The triad of principals - Jalal, who looked throughout like an undertaker's assistant (who is duty bound to look even more mournful than his boss the undertaker😉 ) and wept like a tap in full flow, a wailing Mahaam who pulled out all the stops and drowned Jalal in an ocean of treacle (it was noteworthy that she had now completely stopped coughing, and was able to deliver all those long lines without being short of breath! 😉) , and Jodha, properly tearful and secretly rejoicing that her "reverse psychology" had worked at last - all hammed away to glory.

The final lesson to be drawn from this display of unbridled emotionalism was that one need not spend one's whole life being loyal to the emperor, ending up by saving him even with your dying breath, as Atgah Khan did, to merit such a grief-filled farewell. Mahaam, by trumping Atgah effortlessly in this regard despite her endless crimes, proved that it is possible to fool at least some people all the time.

Especially those like Jalal who, as I wrote yesterday, seems to be an emotional haemophiliac, bleeding all the time for the assurance that he was truly loved.

I don't know about you folks, but I was hard put to save myself from being drowned as well in this sea of facile sentimentality. Oof...!

Shyamala Aunty

Death makes a notorious villain into a diety to be offered final regards and cried tons and buckets by an emperor. I just cannot believe what jodha did, she knew maham involved in killing Akbar's unborn baby, she knew from beginning what maham is because all her plans were exposed be it trapping moti in adham's crime, killing unborn babies, creating misunderstanding between JA, treating hamida badly and acting possessive of Akbar and what not. The biggest issue is Akbar is in delusion o his badi ammi's love and not aware of her deeds except the atifa track and sujamal misunderstanding track. Hence Akbar going to her is not truly great as he is unaware of her many crimes in first place. So what sort of acceptance of a badi ammi or forgiveness is this? If he knew all her crimes and then went I would say bravo because only a brave and strong person can forgive sins committed against them

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Jodha Akbar 334: Mahaam triomphatrix!

Yesternight - I caught the 11 pm repeat telecast and was pleased to see that some of my predictions of the day before, on this thread, had come right;

1) Mahaam did NOT repent for anything she had done for which she had been caught and found guilty - neither the Atifa plot nor even the baddua. No question, therefore, of her confessing and seeking forgiveness for her hidden crimes, beginning with her serial killings of Jalal's unborn children. This was no whimpering, apologising weakling. Good for her.

So there was no question of Jalal giving absolution to a "repenting mother". Sorry, Khushi dear !

It is another matter that Jalal, who is busy first reminiscing about his childhood with his badiammi and then weeping all over her, does not know about 90% of Mahaam's crimes against him and his family. I would have thought the Atifa track would have been bad enough, but apparently all is forgiven provided the criminal is clever enough to be dying. Still, I wonder what he would have done if he had read the whole catalogue of her crimes, beginning with the serial miscarriages.

Jodha of course would not acknowledge these crimes even if they stared her in the face, for she is now fixated on playing the angel of mercy and forgiveness.

2) Mahaam finally deigned to "accept" Jodha, and exactly as I had predicted, Jodha was all gratitude for that and overflowing with respect for the woman who had nearly got her husband assassinated, and had kept Chand Begum in harsh custody for decades out of sheer greed, and managed to drive her out of her mind. Jodha is not bothered now about any of that, for after all Chand Begum was not Mainavati. Or maybe she would have been as full of forgiveness even if it had been Mainavati! Come to think of it, I am sure she would.

3) Mahaam condescended to lift the baddua ( which seems to be like a purchase in a US department store, returnable at will😉 ) not because she had changed her mind, but as a quid pro quo for Jodha having given her the great happiness of getting her Jalal to see her at long last. Now that too was interesting, and in character. I liked the fact that Mahaam kept her end up till the last.

It is another matter that the baddua, like a shraap in the Hindu tradition, apparently cannot be taken back, at least as per Shaguni Bai, and so Hasan and Hussein will have only very short lives, and Ruqaiya's hard own gains will soon be as dust and ashes.

4) Jalal wept enough to flood Agra, again as I had known he would. As for the rest of the grieving multitude, they seemed to be operating on the principle that all is forgiven to one who is dying. 😡

The triad of principals - Jalal, who looked throughout like an undertaker's assistant (who is duty bound to look even more mournful than his boss the undertaker😉 ) and wept like a tap in full flow, a wailing Mahaam who pulled out all the stops and drowned Jalal in an ocean of treacle (it was noteworthy that she had now completely stopped coughing, and was able to deliver all those long lines without being short of breath! 😉) , and Jodha, properly tearful and secretly rejoicing that her "reverse psychology" had worked at last - all hammed away to glory.

The final lesson to be drawn from this display of unbridled emotionalism was that one need not spend one's whole life being loyal to the emperor, ending up by saving him even with your dying breath, as Atgah Khan did, to merit such a grief-filled farewell. Mahaam, by trumping Atgah effortlessly in this regard despite her endless crimes, proved that it is possible to fool at least some people all the time.

Especially those like Jalal who, as I wrote yesterday, seems to be an emotional haemophiliac, bleeding all the time for the assurance that he was truly loved.

I don't know about you folks, but I was hard put to save myself from being drowned as well in this sea of facile sentimentality. Oof...!

Shyamala Aunty