The Final Battle! A letter to the Shehenshah. - Page 4

Created

Last reply

Replies

56

Views

4.7k

Users

24

Likes

229

Frequent Posters

RadhikaS0 thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 11 years ago
#31

Originally posted by: minnie2308

Well...I am too busy for debates... and not in a mood for arguments. I did find the first Red 1 a lack of chivalry and concern. Even if she says she wants to sleep outside, he should have better sense to know it could be because of something Ruq said...!

Crying your eyes out and howling about love is not love. Need to follow it up with actions. Jo was trudging the countryside in frail health as an 'aam admi' and sleeping in the Khema was out of principles of the whole travelling- as-common man exercise. Why sleep in Khema and let one wife sleep in and let other sleep out?? He should have made sure the Khema was abandoned and no one slept inside. But offcourse, majority go by your view and its just me.
Anyhow, my views!
Off course they both had no qulams, only I have.
Again in the 2nd one, I am still maintaing the undue use of word guroor.
I form views based on my perceptions and they change very little with what anyone says.
I was anyways not in mood for debate...
You have a good time posting and responding to others.
You also clarified your non-feminism? Was it because you thought I am?
In that case you are correct ...I am😃


Hi Ladies,

Enjoyed your discussion and am so glad to see both of you being able to defend your POV so well.

I just want to say one thing Minnie. I haven't found any mention of non-feminism in Kaana's writeup. At most she indicates that she is not taking sides. This is quite fair. Many writers on IF are either impartial or partial to both JJ. This does not in any way make the writer either non-feminist or feminist. Feminism is a different ball game altogether, quite different from looking at characters with an unbiased eye.

Anyway, I am happy to note that you are a proud feminist! 👏 Good going!
minnie2308 thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#32

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0


Hi Ladies,

Enjoyed your discussion and am so glad to see both of you being able to defend your POV so well.

I just want to say one thing Minnie. I haven't found any mention of non-feminism in Kaana's writeup
Radhika, In that case you must read in more detail...She started it with this sentence in a way negating what I am saying to be something out of a femenists mouth. And off course, I have no qualms accepting that I am a feminist. Anyhow, my views were backed up with argument, if anyone cares to read...There was no need to talk about feminism while responding to me.
. At most she indicates that she is not taking sides. This is quite fair.
Again, where have I taken side? I did not appreciate one act and wrote about it... whats so heartbreaking about it?
Many writers on IF are either impartial or partial to both JJ. This does not in any way make the writer either non-feminist or feminist. Feminism is a different ball game altogether, quite different from looking at characters with an unbiased eye.
About looking at characters, I am generally more fond of Jalal than Jo. Jo to me is an apt companion to Jalal. He is a strong man and would want a strong woman companion.

Anyway, I am happy to note that you are a proud feminist! 👏
But off course why should I not be?
Good going!

history_geek thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 11 years ago
#33
Hi Kaana,

Buddy delete some messages from your inbox. Seems the inbox limit has been exhausted.
Even inbox has a limit.😉

As you are a newbie, there is a restrcition on sending PMs per day, limited posts per day, and also limited inbox size.

Abhay
MaddyO thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#34
Kaana - the tent scene was one of the most horrible of all scenes of JA.
I lost something for Jalal when they showed him sleeping beside Ruk in the tent leaving just recovering from death Jodha sleeping outside in the open.
I remember it was shown as precap on Friday and we all were hoping it is Ruk's imagination and Jalal will sit outside with Jo.

You wrote perfectly - he should have realized Ruk said something to upset Jo!
Also HE came on the trip with Jo and just cos Ruk deemed to join them to separate his and Jo's growing closeness - he just abandoned the one he came on the trip with to what might have been unsafe environment?!

Forget a husband NO MAN should do that to any woman!
Certainly not a loving husband whose wife is recovering from poison dose taken to save HIS life.

It remains my most detested scene of JA.
Somehow more than the rage at Jodha even though that was also horrific for his hair pulling etc.
Atleast there he was angry and lost control - NOT defending or justifying!

Here in tent scene he had confessed to loving her in his mind. This is the way he showed his love? It created a forever doubt in my mind about his love!

Love means standing up for your loved one - he has rarely done that for Jodha AGAINST others - stood up for her but NOT against his MA or Ruk (except Murti kand but there also he DID NOT reveal Rukayya's truth to everybody, by not accusing the real culprit he just said Jodha cannot do this. That does not mean he made sure everybody KNEW Jodha was innocent. If at all he protected Ruk!)

ann2012 thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#35
Wonderful post Kaana 👏👏⭐️

The comparisons that you made were marvelous. He is still treating her like an object and sees her own will as bloated ego. Jodha is definitely proud and has an ego, agreed. But her ego isn't bloated. The pride demeanor is a part of her. And he means to break it 🤢

Talking about his own hurt, love and pain. But is it enough? Shouldn't he ask her about the betrayal she feels? She laid bare her emotions in the letter and in the monologue after Jalal rescued. But dearest Shehenshah, did you actually understand all of it?

After Jodha's monologue, Jalal said he knew he had caused Jodha pain but now since he had travelled and pinned for her, he deserves her forgiveness. He saw her agony but did he understand the reason? If he did, then he wouldn't have asked for her forgiveness so directly without even completely grasping the gist of the problem. He preferred to label her as an egoist and believe that he had done his part in the reconciliation.

But that is classic Jalal. Reaching a rapid conclusion based on half-baked information and understanding
Edited by ann2012 - 11 years ago
minnie2308 thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#36

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Kaana - the tent scene was one of the most horrible of all scenes of JA.
I lost something for Jalal when they showed him sleeping beside Ruk in the tent leaving just recovering from death Jodha sleeping outside in the open.
I remember it was shown as precap on Friday and we all were hoping it is Ruk's imagination and Jalal will sit outside with Jo.

You wrote perfectly - he should have realized Ruk said something to upset Jo!
Also HE came on the trip with Jo and just cos Ruk deemed to join them to separate his and Jo's growing closeness - he just abandoned the one he came on the trip with to what might have been unsafe environment?!

Forget a husband NO MAN should do that to any woman!
Certainly not a loving husband whose wife is recovering from poison dose taken to save HIS life.

It remains my most detested scene of JA.
Somehow more than the rage at Jodha even though that was also horrific for his hair pulling etc.
Atleast there he was angry and lost control - NOT defending or justifying!

Here in tent scene he had confessed to loving her in his mind. This is the way he showed his love? It created a forever doubt in my mind about his love!

Love means standing up for your loved one - he has rarely done that for Jodha AGAINST others - stood up for her but NOT against his MA or Ruk (except Murti kand but there also he DID NOT reveal Rukayya's truth to everybody, by not accusing the real culprit he just said Jodha cannot do this. That does not mean he made sure everybody KNEW Jodha was innocent. If at all he protected Ruk!)

Maddy...Kaana feels it was ok for him to sleep inside with Ruq...it was me who found the scene detestable:-)
Yup, I saw how everybody was hailing him for siding with Jo during the moortikand. It was infact because of the fact that he already knew the culprit was Ruq. He has definitely stood against Jo for his other beloveds Ruq and MA. I am waiting to watch him with Jo against the rest too if the situation arises.😊
Kaana thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#37
@Minnie - my comments in blue. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts here.
Edited by Kaana - 11 years ago
Kaana thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#38

Originally posted by: minnie2308

Maddy...Kaana feels it was ok for him to sleep inside with Ruq...it was me who found the scene detestable:-)

Yup, I saw how everybody was hailing him for siding with Jo during the moortikand. It was infact because of the fact that he already knew the culprit was Ruq. He has definitely stood against Jo for his other beloveds Ruq and MA. I am waiting to watch him with Jo against the rest too if the situation arises.😊

Thanks Minnie for clarifying.
Yes Maddy, I am fine with the tent decision taken that day. There were situations later also, when Jalal yielded to Jodha's wish , example: voted in favour of Ruqaiyya during Harem election. Even Salima did that.
minnie2308 thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#39
😊 Kaana! Thanks for clarifying.
I really do not see anything wrong in being a feminist.
I have always hailed Jalal/ Jo for all their good deeds.
But here, yes, upon siding with Jo there are chances of being called a feminist!
You write well. Please continue
Kaana thumbnail
11th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#40

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Hi Kaana,

Wonderful post. 👏

You always present Jodha's POV lucidly. and in a very calm and unemotional manner. I like this very much.

Jodha needs time to heal from her earlier hurt and now she is hurt again by what she perceives as Jalal abandoning her yet again (by his departure to Agra). The precap shows how hurt she is by his going away - her mother says she has not eaten or stepped out of her room in 5 days. Imagine a Jodha who was hurt when he told her she was free now. She was not keen on going back to him because she was fearful of being abandoned by him yet again. And here she is, even before she went to him, he himself came to her and "abandoned" her yet again.

I know he has good reasons to go back because he is a king and has to look after his kingdom. I know he is hurt and frustrated by her refusal to forgive him and return to him. I know he does not know how relationships work and how to win her back.

I have already seen things from his perspective in my thread. Now I am trying to see things from your perspective of Jodha's POV. This girl was able to lead a comparatively normal life in Mathura. Then what has happened that she is now restricting herself to her room and not eating? Seeing Jalal at close quarters again, she had started yearning for him yet again. All the feelings she had suppressed under a thick layer of anger and hurt started bursting out again. And then he walked away, leaving her to pick up the pieces of her yearning and feelings once more.

Possibly she is now even more afraid of going to him, because how many times can she watch him walking away from her? Even if he does some "Actions" likely to impress her, will she be able to win over her fears and return to Agra? Again and again, I'm confused about what possible actions he can take to win over her fears and reassure her of a secure future with him? The separation can increase her yearning for him but will it be able to crush her fears? Till she conquers her fears, she cannot return. Till she returns and lives with him, she will not know that her fears are now without any foundation. So what should she do?


Hey Radhila, lovely to have you back. And as always there is no death for your extra kind words. Thanks a bunch.

You have given me an assignment now, asking such a question!!!!

My quick response here to your query. I owe Rima one too and hopefully it might provide some answers too.

Pl bear with me, and if I can share my thoughts too while I respect your views, I am not sure if I would want to agree with two things stated - Jalal abandoned her yet again, Jodha's fear of being abandoned again. In my humble view, based on my understanding so far, this is not in their character. A quick reason: he did not just abandon her when she committed suicide, twice?, Jodha's temperament and Rajvanshiness may not lend this fear possible.

Jalal's POV - no point in continuing on a relationship which has fallen apart. And does it make sense to continue to live together in the palace in such a state? So, in this situation, as understood then by him, only option is to separate and he freed her of the rishta. Giving an ultimatum to leave by the first ray of tom morning, was an emotional outcome of a devastated soul. Is it justified? Yes and No, in my view. I suppose, earlier also when he was ready to give talaq, he was trying to do a prayaschit for his act of cruelty to her so long. This was not abandoning as such - but done with a genuine intent to relieve her of the pain she undergoes here and send her back to a place where she will be happy. However, whether this act per say is right is something that is questionable. In the process he has caused more pain to her. That is the Jalal!!!!

Jodha's POV - trust fallen apart, relationship broken and abandoned, vachan not adhered to, would like to move out. It is a fact that she also wanted to move out, though husband order has been given as a reason and maybe a reason also. For that matter, technically, she has abandoned him at all these times stated. So per say fear of being abandoned by someone may not fit in well for her is my view, I may be wrong also. But she is very much disturbed, not happy and tired of Jalal's two way behaviour.

Life at Mathura: It was not a normal life in that she was getting depressed by Jalal thoughts. However, it was normal compared to now Amer or even before Jalal came to Mathura. This in my view could be because, till the time she saw him at Mathura, there was no clue that he is coming to get her back. She could have resigned to her new life of her own, pained and lonely life, which she is now coming to terms with. She had then no option of going back anyway, not that she wanted to. She accepted it as the way forward and was trying to settle in it.

But at Amer, things are different - she is pressurized on all possible grounds to return with him by Jalal, she is asked to go back in a way by her own folks, she cannot be not going back given her feelings for him and she does not want to go back being let down. And, there is an option to go back now, unlike before. She does not want to avail it, but do not want to let go it as well. So, when Jalal chose to return without her (not abandoned her - he had no option and was repeatedly asked to leave anyway), which maybe was quite unexpected by her, she is unable to come to terms with it. I am happy with this act of Jalal, she needed this jolt to come back to reality and now take some concrete steps, even if it takes some time. But without this, she may just be only sulking away and maybe in self sympathy while missing him also. But now, she is pushed to some action. Unlike Mathura, she cannot find any comfort in this state as she now very much has the option to go back to Jalal now (which is very much there at the bottom of her heart).

Regd your point 'Leaving her to pick up the pieces of yearning and feelings once more' - am not sure of this, as this is the first time this is happening after he knows of her love for him (may not apply to showdown night also). All these days, he was not even sure of her feelings. Again, he cannot be held responsible for leaving to Agra without her, it is absolutely Jodha's decision.

And to specifically answer your last Q, the transformation has to happen in both and it is a gradual process. And there are no stated or specific actions that could instill any new impression or bring it to the desired state. Just like situations, approaches, behaviour, actions and reactions and impressions played a role in building the trust that was before this track, same even now.

Separation is also expected to reveal a lot to Jodha herself. And, the new built trust in Jalal cannot be based only on Jalal's effort, but Jodha has a role in it too. She has to do her homework as well. Likewise, it cannot be achieved just by Jodha too, with her own self realisation. It has to be reassured by Jalal as well. So, both have a role to play to bring them together on a safe, strong ground.

Hope that I have been even partially successful in my attempt to answer you. Awaiting to hear your thoughts too. And you by now know how my brain works 😊, just tried to look at both sides!

Edited by Kaana - 11 years ago

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".