understanding Jodha with kindness - Page 4

Originally posted by: sashashyam

I would like to congratulate you on a sophisticated, cohesive and very persuasively argued post. I have reservations on various points made here, however, and my comments are @blue below. They have all been made in perfect good humour, and without any expectation that you will agree with them!

However, I do not see how you can argue that the character Jodha should be off bounds for criticism, as distinct from the actress who portrays her. This is an untenable position. In fact, all members are free to criticise any character as much as they want, within the norms of decency and the IF rules.

Secondly, I do not really see where the historical Jodha comes in for any kind of defence. She is not at issue here. Or the historical Akbar, for that matter. The onscreen Jodha's halo gets brighter by the day, and Rajat's Jalal has enough deewaanis to keep him afloat no matter what!😉

In fact, if at all any of the Jodha Akbar characters needs to have something said in her defence, it is not Jodha, who is by now a typical Ekta heroine who can do no wrong, with a certificate to that effect from none less then her saas, thus turning all the rules of the saas-bahu soaps on their head!😉

It is Ruqaiya Sultan Begum, who was, according to historians, a very dignified, caring and warm hearted lady, but who has here been reduced to a plastic, vampish harem superintendent. She should have the most to complain to Balaji about, for her image has been irretrievably ruined in the eyes of the huge teleaudience, in India and outside. In fact, a thread bringing out these distortions of Ruqaiya Begum's character would be in order, and you might like to try your hand at that next as you are interested in history.

Incidentally Queen Nefertiti must have been a fascinating study.

As for the abundance of instinctive feminine solidarity with Jodha in much of this forum, I would not normally object to that, for all things being equal, I would side with the woman, but the problem here is that all things are not equal.

I wanted a Jodha who would be feisty and intelligent and coolly self-possessed, capable of holding her own against an emperor without being petty or smart alecky or plain rude. One who could face any calamity with fortitude and resourcefulness, instead of weeping like a tap in full flow and lamenting her fate to Moti. I would have cheered myself hoarse for that Jodha as she brought a turbulent, haughty and arrogant Jalal to heel in slow stages.

I would grant you her courage, her truthfulness, her affectionate and caring nature towards everyone except her husband. What she lacks is, firstly, an ability to judge others and secondly, a modicum of commonsense and street smartness. The latter is exemplified by her boasting to Sharifuddin about her daasi act and her personal knowledge of his plotting on the Ratanpur fort issue. I was delighted when she pulled that stunt of hugging Mahaam and begging everyone's pardon - it was splendid tactics - but alas, a mere flash in the pan.

In her place, for example, I would have pre-empted the latest blow up with Hamida by going to her Ammijaan and telling her the whole of my side of the story. Having by now at least some idea of my husband's integrity and his loyalty to his word as given - he had after all been ready to give up the throne just to keep his word to her, which is surely NOT a minor gesture - I would have at least considered the possibility that both of us might have been deceived. Jalal does that, which is why he consults Salima; why can Jodha not be shown to have the same good sense?

Instead, she goes to Jalal and lectures him on trust. But how much trust can she demand from him when she gives him none at all, and is ready to believe the worst of him at the first opportunity? That line about vaasna ki poorti ke liye anek saadhan the was ugly coming from her. Very few normal husbands would have let her hold out indefinitely as Jalal does, and waited for her pleasure. She does not seem to understand or appreciate that at all.

It is another matter that Jalal's bewildering I did IT, I did not do IT, as summed up in Lashy's delightful post of that title, is enough to scramble anyone's brains!😉

To revert, what we have had here so far is very different from the Jodha I was looking forward to. To my mind we are getting stuck with a typical Ekta female lead, who is always right no matter what she does and how she behaves. Jodha to me now looks much like Archana and Purvi of PR, whose main characteristic is that they can do no wrong.

Why, which bahu gets a saas like this one, who loves her more than she loves her son? If she had been in Meerabai's place, she would have seen what a true blue saas and nanad can be like. Or a hostile sasuraal. Here Jodha has not only her Ammijaan's triad to back her, but Salima Begum and Bakshi Banu and many more. How then can one say that she is in a uniformly hostile environment at Agra?

Hamida's outburst against her Jodha beta was an aberration that was instantly reversed thanks to Jalal, and the cheerleading was restored in no time, thus ensuring that Jodha learns nothing from this, or from the next disaster which is surely round the corner, and sees no need to do so either.

But why should she, when she is always lauded to the skies for her real and imaginary acts of commission? For example, Hamida praises her for having saved Jalal's life, forgetting that it was her folly that nearly killed him in the first place.

Have you ever seen Jodha introspecting over anything that she has said or done, and maybe, just maybe, concluding that she was wrong? The Green Jodha-Yellow Jodha scene was the one exception, and that has never been repeated.

The upshot of all this is that I am, increasingly, unable to relate to this Jodha at all. She is a major disappointment: opinionated, obstinate, blinkered, and weak and and weepy to boot. Where is the strong, intelligent, resourceful Diana-cum-Juno that I had wanted? Nowhere that I can see.

In fact, Jodha's lack of good sense seems to be catching, for we now have Jalal who, instead of simply saying that Jodha is not expecting at all and was the victim of a plot,indulges in the kind of "hate me, do!" convolutions that one expects from the typical virtuous bahu in every single soap. She usually trashes her own reputation for the (obscure) bhalayi of her husband or some member of his family. Here, Jalal does it for Jodha's sake.

This is a truly revolutionary role reversal, of which Balaji can be very proud, and probably are!😉

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: sashashyam

I would like to congratulate you on a sophisticated, cohesive and very persuasively argued post. I have reservations on various points made here, however, and my comments are @blue below. They have all been made in perfect good humour, and without any expectation that you will agree with them!

However, I do not see how you can argue that the character Jodha should be off bounds for criticism, as distinct from the actress who portrays her. This is an untenable position. In fact, all members are free to criticise any character as much as they want, within the norms of decency and the IF rules.

Secondly, I do not really see where the historical Jodha comes in for any kind of defence. She is not at issue here. Or the historical Akbar, for that matter. The onscreen Jodha's halo gets brighter by the day, and Rajat's Jalal has enough deewaanis to keep him afloat no matter what!😉

In fact, if at all any of the Jodha Akbar characters needs to have something said in her defence, it is not Jodha, who is by now a typical Ekta heroine who can do no wrong, with a certificate to that effect from none less then her saas, thus turning all the rules of the saas-bahu soaps on their head!😉

It is Ruqaiya Sultan Begum, who was, according to historians, a very dignified, caring and warm hearted lady, but who has here been reduced to a plastic, vampish harem superintendent. She should have the most to complain to Balaji about, for her image has been irretrievably ruined in the eyes of the huge teleaudience, in India and outside. In fact, a thread bringing out these distortions of Ruqaiya Begum's character would be in order, and you might like to try your hand at that next as you are interested in history.

Incidentally Queen Nefertiti must have been a fascinating study.

As for the abundance of instinctive feminine solidarity with Jodha in much of this forum, I would not normally object to that, for all things being equal, I would side with the woman, but the problem here is that all things are not equal.

I wanted a Jodha who would be feisty and intelligent and coolly self-possessed, capable of holding her own against an emperor without being petty or smart alecky or plain rude. One who could face any calamity with fortitude and resourcefulness, instead of weeping like a tap in full flow and lamenting her fate to Moti. I would have cheered myself hoarse for that Jodha as she brought a turbulent, haughty and arrogant Jalal to heel in slow stages.

I would grant you her courage, her truthfulness, her affectionate and caring nature towards everyone except her husband. What she lacks is, firstly, an ability to judge others and secondly, a modicum of commonsense and street smartness. The latter is exemplified by her boasting to Sharifuddin about her daasi act and her personal knowledge of his plotting on the Ratanpur fort issue. I was delighted when she pulled that stunt of hugging Mahaam and begging everyone's pardon - it was splendid tactics - but alas, a mere flash in the pan.

In her place, for example, I would have pre-empted the latest blow up with Hamida by going to her Ammijaan and telling her the whole of my side of the story. Having by now at least some idea of my husband's integrity and his loyalty to his word as given - he had after all been ready to give up the throne just to keep his word to her, which is surely NOT a minor gesture - I would have at least considered the possibility that both of us might have been deceived. Jalal does that, which is why he consults Salima; why can Jodha not be shown to have the same good sense?

Instead, she goes to Jalal and lectures him on trust. But how much trust can she demand from him when she gives him none at all, and is ready to believe the worst of him at the first opportunity? That line about vaasna ki poorti ke liye anek saadhan the was ugly coming from her. Very few normal husbands would have let her hold out indefinitely as Jalal does, and waited for her pleasure. She does not seem to understand or appreciate that at all.

It is another matter that Jalal's bewildering I did IT, I did not do IT, as summed up in Lashy's delightful post of that title, is enough to scramble anyone's brains!😉

To revert, what we have had here so far is very different from the Jodha I was looking forward to. To my mind we are getting stuck with a typical Ekta female lead, who is always right no matter what she does and how she behaves. Jodha to me now looks much like Archana and Purvi of PR, whose main characteristic is that they can do no wrong.

Why, which bahu gets a saas like this one, who loves her more than she loves her son? If she had been in Meerabai's place, she would have seen what a true blue saas and nanad can be like. Or a hostile sasuraal. Here Jodha has not only her Ammijaan's triad to back her, but Salima Begum and Bakshi Banu and many more. How then can one say that she is in a uniformly hostile environment at Agra?

Hamida's outburst against her Jodha beta was an aberration that was instantly reversed thanks to Jalal, and the cheerleading was restored in no time, thus ensuring that Jodha learns nothing from this, or from the next disaster which is surely round the corner, and sees no need to do so either.

But why should she, when she is always lauded to the skies for her real and imaginary acts of commission? For example, Hamida praises her for having saved Jalal's life, forgetting that it was her folly that nearly killed him in the first place.

Have you ever seen Jodha introspecting over anything that she has said or done, and maybe, just maybe, concluding that she was wrong? The Green Jodha-Yellow Jodha scene was the one exception, and that has never been repeated.

The upshot of all this is that I am, increasingly, unable to relate to this Jodha at all. She is a major disappointment: opinionated, obstinate, blinkered, and weak and and weepy to boot. Where is the strong, intelligent, resourceful Diana-cum-Juno that I had wanted? Nowhere that I can see.

In fact, Jodha's lack of good sense seems to be catching, for we now have Jalal who, instead of simply saying that Jodha is not expecting at all and was the victim of a plot,indulges in the kind of "hate me, do!" convolutions that one expects from the typical virtuous bahu in every single soap. She usually trashes her own reputation for the (obscure) bhalayi of her husband or some member of his family. Here, Jalal does it for Jodha's sake.

This is a truly revolutionary role reversal, of which Balaji can be very proud, and probably are!😉

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: Paru...

😕

@Red Ruqaiya?😕from where did she come from?.i felt this topic is about jodha and not Ruqaiya.As far as i know this serial is about love story of Akbar and jodha and not a triangular love story of Akbar-jodha -ruqaiya.😳

Originally posted by: sashashyam

In fact, if at all any of the Jodha Akbar characters needs to have something said in her defence, it is not Jodha, who is by now a typical Ekta heroine who can do no wrong, with a certificate to that effect from none less then her saas, thus turning all the rules of the saas-bahu soaps on their head!😉

It is Ruqaiya Sultan Begum, who was, according to historians, a very dignified, caring and warm hearted lady, but who has here been reduced to a plastic, vampish harem superintendent. She should have the most to complain to Balaji about, for her image has been irretrievably ruined in the eyes of the huge teleaudience, in India and outside. In fact, a thread bringing out these distortions of Ruqaiya Begum's character would be in order, and you might like to try your hand at that next as you are interested in history.

Incidentally Queen Nefertiti must have been a fascinating study.

Edited by sashashyam - 11 years ago

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Paru,

There is no rule that every reference in a thread has to deal only with the main subject, so long as the response does not go completely off the serial concerned, in this case, Jodha Akbar. If you applied your rule, which in any case does not exist under the IF regulations, across the board, hardly any thread would survive.

This said, Ruqaiya is, both historically and here, a major and permanent part of Jalal/Akbar's life, and so she is there all the time. My comment was in essence a suggestion to the topic maker and thus concerns only her. Of course it is for her to take it or not. I personally think that if she tried her hand at it, she would make a very good job of it, but naturally it is for her to decide.

She also mentioned Nefertiti in her response, and I referred to Nefertiti too, if you read both comments carefully. Now that was clearly off topic from both sides, was it not? Nefertiti is not a part of the Akbar Jodha love story and is in fact not even in Jodha Akbar. But it is these kinds of off topic references that make a post extra interesting.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Hi dear,u have written a paragraph about Ruqaiyya.so i genuinely felt it was off topic.in my view point i felt Ruqaiyya like a kaabab mein haddi.😊my post was neither to apply any I-F rules nor to offend u.😳.actually i do'nt know much about Ruqaiyya.(i was a science student).i think i will have to ask our forum member history_geek about it.may be he/she can help me.🤔

i am extremely sorry if i hurt u.😳i have this habit of asking questions.😳

Originally posted by: ann2012

Wonderful post! 👏

I just love Jodha's character. The way she is potrayed on-screen.. so forthright, honest, righteous to a fault just makes her very believable. The part about psychoanalysis in your post that such upright people are like that in all the aspects of their life, whether it comes to their family or enemies, is so correct. Jodha is pure iron, literally. She will break before she bends.

People rarely seem to remember how Jalal treated her initially and what kind of place she is living in. Jalal has become nicer to her only recently after he explicilty blamed her for the MC track and is slowly falling in love. But what about Jodha? She never imagined to be a third wife living among many other wives and concubines. Jalal is not the perfect prince charming, he comes with a lot baggage too. Also, Jalal did humiliate her family. But his recent actions redeemed him in her eyes. She started to respect him and talking to him cordially. That is a big step for Jodha.

There romance will be really slow and would take a lot episodes. It can't and shouldn't just happen overnight, it would totally be out-of-character for Jodha. Her hate intensified over various epis so will her love. I am so happy someone shares that sentiment! 😊😊