NO SORRY - Page 5

Originally posted by: AnuN

All, those who are still blaming Geet for forgiving Dev, I gave some eamples, but ppl wanted to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.. So here I have finally found some thing very close this situation and trying to think too much..

Has anyone watched movie called 'Pinjer'? A movie that deals with most complex human emotions of love, hate, pain, agony, accusation, frustrations, sacrifice, and forgiveness..

I have watched this movie twice.. when I first saw it, it left me shocked, pained and crying with so much to absorb.. I felt as if I have seen something that can cut my heart apart.. I still dared to watch it second time after few yrs when it was coming on TV as its the most touching story of a girl, I could ever see onscreen.. I have watched movies of Dilip Kumar (tragedy king), moving of Meena Kumari (tragedy Queen), but had never cried so much ever before..

So here is the story -

Puro, daughter of the wealthy family, leads a happy life in Amritsar. Her family returns to its village, Chatwal, west of Amritsar, where her marriage is arranged with Ramchand. She dreams of herself as Janki of Ram... Loves him from depth of her heart.. And is waiting to get married. Puro's dreams of a happy future are shattered when, one evening, she is kidnapped by Rashid. He is looking to settle a family score that goes back two generations. Rashid, who has by now fallen in love with Puro, confines her to his house in the same village. When he tells her they are getting married, a desperate Puro manages to escape. But an even crueler fate awaits her: her parents tell her they cannot take her back. When a heartbroken Puro heads to the village well, she finds Rashid waiting to take her home. They get married but for, Puro, this marriage is akin to death. She wastes away, becoming a pinjar (skeleton) who exists but has ceased to live. For her, she has gone through a false marrige and its a rape too.. To save the family izzat, Puro's sister Rajjo is offered in marriage to Ramchand. But Ramchand does not agree as he still loves Puro and says he will wait for her forever. So Rajjo is married to Ramchand's cousin, while Puro's brother, Trilok marries Ramchand's sister, Lajo. Puro cannot forget Ramchand and her family and dreams of being re-united with them. Trilok, who has never given up his search for his sister, returns to Chatwal. He soon finds out that she was kidnapped by Rashid and burns Rashid's farm, destroying the harvest. Rashid is broken but refuses to seek revenge, pointing out that if someone's sister had been kidnapped, this was the least he would do in anger. And he asks them to let him pay for his sins.. In mean time, Puro if found to be 4 months pregnant and she tells Rashid, she hates herself for carring his sin for 4 months now. She later has a miscarriage and she has no regrets as to her it was sin anyways.. Partition is announced and everyone's world comes crashing down. Ramchand's family is forced to flee eastwards, towards India. On the way, they are attacked by a Muslim mob and a pregnant Lajo, Ram's sister, who had returned to her parental home to deliver her first child, is kidnapped by a Muslim. Puro meets Ramchand at a refugee camp for Hindus and he pleads with her to find his missing sister. Rashid promises to help Puro so that he may redeem himself in her eyes. Puro finds the kidnapped Lajo and Rashid helps her escape safely back to her family. Ram and Tilak ask Puro to come with them too as Ram is still ready to accept Puro.. But Puro refuses... She finally forgives Rashid and accepts him as her husband.. And Ram, he is really greatest person, who immidiately accepts this and sacrifices his love and returns back to India with his sister and Trilok..

When I compare what Geet has gone thru, nothing compared to Puro.. She had Maan by her side, but Puro was all alone staying with person she hated most.. Geet atleast did not know Dev is cheating when Dev raped her.. so she atleast loved her baby.. Puro knew and was being raped mentally and physically for some family enimity.. So for her, even the baby was someone's sin..

So when Puro can forgive Rashid and accept him as her husband, Geet just forgave him and know him as just a person there and nothing much.. Yes she accepted his color of holi, but Puro even accepted Rashid as her husband..

Originally posted by: kuls11

They were weak before I accepted where I denied but one emerged as rebel as fighter after Maan came to life'.and other remain week and became more of acceptor type after Rashid came to her life. I explained their difference in above post so I cant go on counting them again and again. What was difference'They were different'.If person is born weak that doesnt means he/she will remain like that for all her life. Trauma and Tragedy change everyone for better or worst. For Geet case she changed from meek submissive girl to strong women who fought for her rights. For Puro she became more meek and submissive and added one more quality that was acceptance to whatever fate throw at her.
Yes Brij might have killed her but you forgot that its GEET who in front of whole world exposed his own brother anc claimed entire family GEET will now be only GEET that statement showed how she emerged as winner fighter. Why you are complaining apple or orange'.IF your stance I can give 100 real life not fictional example where women killed her rapist '(my frnd who despite fighting for 7 years when her fake husband cried begged for pardon went for justice'..when she was alone with her kid''still she fought) ..So Geet should do that''They are different character and I explained in minute details , I will not repeat again and again if you bring same point after accepting they were different'.

Sita and drapadi'''.Remember Sita was questioned of charcter from husband right Draupadi was used as object and was used as bet ''Unke pati ne unhe dhaav pe lagya tha''What more worst according to you'''Dhaav pe lagna or character per shak karma''''why they have different solution ''''.why draupadi didn't left home and went to exile and why she took oath to kill her abuser but never left her husband while other did''Let me add one random analogy like you did as Puro did GEet should do same. Why you compared Puro with Geet why not compare with Rani padma vati to save her honor she burned herself alive and was sati'''Why not GEET chose same option and killed herself as soon as she came to know of her rape'I don't believe in it as for me both are different

I don't get it are you defending your self or against yourself because half of you statement give me idea you want to convey exactly what I am saying. Like Jhansi ki Rani Statement she fought for right, she never forgave any enemy'She fought she killed she was winner therefore she made name in real history. Please read my statement I never said all women of that era were meek and weak.
But there were unlimited Puro's in that era why no one is there our history why they were not remembered as women of that era. Puro was fictional imagination of Amrita Pritam, for what she saw around her'.not reality but why we don't have single biography of brave women like Puro of era who forgave and accepted her destiny, fate never fought back whatever life thrown at them.

Because for historians they were not the one to idolize or remembered in future what they did was not miraculous not different as 99% of women were like this only one percent those who were fighters are usually remembered

''.My whole idea of this thesis is 'GEet and Puro are different....a lioness cant be compared to lamb....Geet was lioness and Puro was lamb.......... different people have different solutions for different problems of life'.But you are harping everyone on this earth will behave in exact one manner'''.if one did this 1947 other will do same in 2010''.era was different context was different'''.and most importantly now women is different 'during that era women rarely stood for their rights'they were considered as object for sex 'children '.marital rape was not considered as rape then'..But if in that era women liked to live as object this era women should live like this'.why women now complain for marital rape'.domestic violence.

If you believe a women should forgive her abuser rapist when he ask for forgiveness than its your belief. I don't question yours But my belief says a women should fight for any kind of domestic violence, rape and never forgive culprit until whole justice done to set example for these abuser that you can't get away with what you did to someone soul and life with your crocodile(for me) or real(for you) tears.

Originally posted by: acjanfeb1

ACTUALLY ,THAT IS A BEAUTIFUL NOVEL WRITTEN BY AMRITA PRITAM ONE OF THE FAMOUS HINDI LAURETE IN THE INDIAN LITREATURE .HER BOOKS ALWAYS SHOWS RARE INSIGHT OF HUMAN EMOTIONS ESPECIALLY WOMEN .YES .THE CLASSIC EXAMPLE YOU HAD GIVEN MAY HELP THE GEET HATERS TO UNDERSTAND OF THE PSCHOLOGY OF GEET AND ONLY WOMAN HAD ENPOWERED THE RARE GIFT OF FORGIVENESS BY ALMIGHTY . I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU TO BRING PINJAR TO MAKE US UNDERSTAND THE WOMAN POV .KUDOS TO YOU.

Originally posted by: AnuN

Hey, lets keep deleting older replies, to keep it small..

To me when she said in one breath 'I forgive you' it was not really taking a strong step.... it just came out instantly.. and yes then she realized she has let it go.. Forgiving is sure not a weak.. but it was in her case as she was not forgiven for some unknown sin and had lost baby in her own words..

But even if you do a noble act unintentionally or unknowingly, it gives you peace.. thats what she got.. And I agree she should have asked Maan, but Maan has never put conditions on her to ask him before taking any decisions.. Love is to support decisions of your loved ones.. Thats what Maan's love has been always.. and Maan would have accepted her decision, if he had got explanation in right time.. he was in pain, but he was not hating or accusing Geet.. He was thinking why she did that.. one explanation at right time could have saved it all..

And I have always said, Maan's anger was justified, but his words were not..

Maan has used harsh words to tell her to be strong in HP and then in office as well, I never told those as his mistakes.. but he did utter some disgraceful words sometimes, still ppl defend them.. I atleast dont defend Geet for blaming Maan in front of Media.. For me if she is wrong, she and same goes for Maan.. Lets not make any one of these as God

Originally posted by: AnuN

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So was it Puro's fault that no Maan came to her life.. And the only reason, I compared these were not because of circumstances or anything else.. no 2 ppl will have same life .. same problems, same help.. I used to it say Rapist was forgiven by Puro too.. As you had said no woman can forgive a rapist.

I'm not here to just be against you.. Like for Jansi ki Rani, I quoted as you had mentioned Geet is from 2010.. I just meant women can be strong in each era and if you agree, then we are on same page for that.

Also, regarding Rani Padmawati, who knows Geet would have not thought of commiting sucide.. she just found it in Amritstar and was walking on road, would have got killed if Maan had not saved her.. She went to Gurudwara and got peace and time to think before react.

You are taking about era and I'm talking about Geet;s upbringing.. even in this era, she was same as Puro.. So when I compared, it was mostly for sin that had happened and there was a forgiveness in the end.. Now acceptance as you mentioned will be diff. Thats why I only compared to movie. And, yes, one became lioness as a lion came to her life and other was not so lucky and so stayed lamb.

And ofcourse, culprits should be punished. I have just defended Geet personally forgiving at spiritual level,. Dev's case should still be pending and law will take its own take on whole pic.. I never claimed he should not be punished lawfully. I have always tried to defend Geet for her acts at spiritual level only.. Dev should go to jail.. And one more thing, law and spirituality are diff.. I am on same page with you for me rape is bigger sin than murder. But then, I dont think thats the case in law.

Originally posted by: -Rati-

For you may be but not for me, she sure meant & knew the impact - graveness of her forgiving him. Yes indeed it gives peace & Maan put no restriction on her , if not anything then this freedom of decision making makes her owe it to Maan to share & discuss, count his opinion not just do it be it in spur of the moment & later move on with it.

Maan's words to me were justified coz being a woman me too felt the same & wanted to question her sense of self respect. Again my pov it hardly matters to me if anyone agrees to it or not.

Well to each their own you yourself might not feel that you are being biased as I or they who you talking of don't feel about their opinion.

Originally posted by: kuls11

There is saying ...maine kaha AAM tune kaha Imli............same you are doing.......going on marry go round
When I said Puro was at fault please bring that statement here ...all I said was she was weak charcter who never fought back in life........I never said she was at fault for being like this........
.......see I am not interested in Puro charcter.......I was talking about GEET charctaer and her charcter only....................you read my take...I clearly mentioned they were changed after tragedy before both were same...Geet never tried suicide even in Amritsar.....she was strong women by then..........I mentioned they changed after targeday one of good other for worst...........For your kind information now you are defending Puro........See I am not interested in her character I replied to you because you brough this analogy.......What you wrote abiove one became lioness other became lamb..........So what should I do about it............I am not interested about Puro I brought her here because you started this random analogy not because I m interested in her plights or Divine forgiveness.

...Please stay to point we are talking about GEET and GEET only.........This discussion was started for GEET and Puro was just analogy.............just to extend this discussion for eternity now without any logic you shifted your focus to Puro and started defending her .....See I am not interested in her character i have drank...understood her charcter very well...she was victim and always remained a victim to me.....thats all my verdict on her.........
Please only discuss GEET as main topic and Puro as analogy dont make Puro as topic of discussion I have better job to do than discussion on forgotten heroine of a novel.....of 1950s
..
Last what law consider a rape as its more or less to murder it doesn't matter but it does consider that as crime and criminal deserve punishment before redemption even if its for 7 years. Does Dev served his punishment before giving lecture....Let him serve his punishment and come back and ask for forgiveness.........I have rest my case here.........Hope you get point ...I believe what I believe....I don't want to attain Nirvana .........Let me be human.........I love that way

Originally posted by: AnuN

I agree to disagree.. I know we all have many things to take care of and not just Geet.. But it was nice to know the views of others.. I never disregard anyone's views. Btw, just to let you know, I used to hate Indian law for not keeping death sentence for rapists.. But I have come way ahead in the spiritual level in last 15 yrs.. Now I dont bother even if they dont get it.. they will pay much more in life here after.

Originally posted by: AnuN

My stand is still the same, if Puro could forgive Rapist, Geet can do the same. Just because you think she stayed a victim, thats does not mean she did.. She had been indifferent to Rashid when she was a victim, but in the end, she had tears rolling and she hugged him.. This shows getting back emotions to me. And per the movie reviews, if I remember it said something about pain and all but it say in end it shows there is a hope. Since I have not read the novel, I can not claim what it is there. And so I'm refering to the movie char, I told so many times.. if its diff from novel char, cant do much. So I feel Puro forgave rapist and so did Geet. Just because she is strong, does not mean she can not forgive Dev to let it go and get peace.. I have never asked you to attain Nirvana.. You sure can stay as human.. 😊

Originally posted by: kuls11

underlined
Asusual not interested in Puro plight already mentioned in my post....
amrita Prtiam herself mentioned her heroine were always mere victim of fate era and social norms of that era ....so do I think her heroines were.
Okie than my stand is still same too.....I dont want Devto be in peace till he serve his punishment MY stand is same too ..If I don't support rapist forgiveness in real life....I have mentioned when my friend didnt forgive her husband and fought for justice even when he begged for forgiveness.... Geet didn't do right in my eyes......My frnd is sure human and idolizing one too me....I am human only and preach or hate human qualities or flaws.or crime ...dont go for divine solution......