Dharamkshetra discussion thread 2 - Page 22

Amrita

Brishti, I am in no mood to edit that. And I am no Bengali. I love & respect Veda Vyasa than Tagore. I cannot change that. The problem with that poem is though one feels bad for both Kunti & Karna while reading, long after he read it, it is certainly Karna who stays back in memories because we all have faced rejection at one or another point of life & most have faced problems with parents at least once. So it is easy to conncet with Karna. But how many mothers had to face abandoning their kid? Until one is a mother, it is hard to understand how horrible is that. So most ppl will fail to know Kunti. And Kunti is my fav character in entire MB, more fav than Karna. So I dont care what others think. I do respect opinions of all people, even if that is against my opinion. If one can't understand that, that is not my problem.😊
In case of Karna-Arjuna, I like them both. Arjuna I like from childhood & Karna after I began reading KMG. So I don't wanna see one in bad light for another. As per me, whether Karna was good or jealous or wicked or not any of those has nothing to do with Arjuna & vice versa. You may have a diff opinion & I respect that. Here is the citation you asked. It is from Shanti Parva. If Karna was Drona's student, he was not much aged to be not corrected by a guru. And the reason Karna was told for denying knowledge is not the reason we read just before that. So that means Drona knew who Karna was & still he denied. Drona's problem was not Karna's caste or skill, but only Arjuna.
Karna one day approached Drona in private and said these words unto him, 'I desire to be acquainted with the Brahma weapon, with all its mantras and the power of withdrawing it, for I desire to fight Arjuna. Without doubt, the affection thou bearest to every one of thy pupils is equal to what thou bearest to thy own son. I pray that all the masters of the science of weapons may, through thy grace, regard me as one accomplished in weapons!' Thus addressed by him, Drona, from partiality for Phalguna, as also from his knowledge of the wickedness of Karna, said, 'None but a Brahmana, who has duly observed all vows, should be acquainted with the Brahma weapon, or a Kshatriya that has practised austere penances, and no other.'

I feel the problem with Karna and Kunti is that while people look at Karna from Kaliyug perspective, they don't extend the same courtesy to Kunti

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Amrita

Not quoting your incredibly long post😆Definitely Karna is the most popular character of Mahabharat even outside Bengal.. But it is true..atleast from my experience, that Bengalis see Karna is another light.. they workship him more than others.. in general.. And I feel Kashidashi Mahabharata, Karna Kunti Sangbad, Pother Panchali's Karna scene are highly responsible for this.. I am not blaming the authors for their creative liberty.. Ofcourse they can write. Infact they have given us some of the best literary pieces... Its not anyones fault but I feel Bengalis are a bigger lover of tragedy as a whole and also tears (Have you seen Bengali serials?😆).. The whole world are lovers of tragedy.. Hamlet and Macbeth are anyday more popular than Merchant of Venice or Comedy of Errors.. But I still feel Bengalis are a bit more inclined.. you don't have to think the same..

As far Madhusudan Dutta is concerned, I agree with every word you said about him being one of best poets Bengal and the whole of world has seen... I am again not blaming him.. But his Meghnath vadh Kavya is highly a great example of workshipping villians.. I DONT MEAN TO DEMEAN HIM. It is a classic poem...BUT...the point remains.. these poems provoke workshipping of villians as a whole.. Thinking that villians the ones we knew as bad were not actually bad..this idea..

😆
I actually tend to write long long posts...Brevity is something I am yet to learn...

As for Bengalis...I agree completely...Bengalis are the biggest worshippers of Karna...
Best examples of that are in this forum only...
Even KMG is often called a Karna fan n he was a Bengali... 😆

But I have also seen the same fandom in South...Someone once told me that in South India, SEVENTEEN movies in total have been made on Karna... 😆 Dont know how true that is!!
But I can well imagine how Draupadi was portrayed in them... 😉

Anyway, this is something we cannot change...
I guess because Banga is a part of Anga...n maybe that's y, there is so much of Karna worship here...
But then that should make most Punjabis fans of Panchali too...not sure wat is her status in Punjab... 😆

I agree that Michael Madhusudan Dutta was the pioneer of the Inversion Theory...
But I dont mind that unless the facts are distorted...
If someone says Duryodhan was a better warrior than Bhima...then I dont mind that...because he was.
But if someone says he asked Draupadi to sit on his thighs because he felt sorry that she was standing n yelling for so long n needed a place to sit n rest... 🤢 then... 🤢
I actually do not consider any of them as villains anymore, except Dushasen...so Inversion Theory is fine,as long as there is logic n integrity in the portayal n no intensional whitewashing of the villains...

And y do I think so about Kunti?
Well...I once read a citation...a conversation between Kunti n Lord Krishna where Kunti clearly states her motives for visiting Karna...Please check that once...I am very bad at providing citations...
She clearly states wat she want...so I cant help but feel that her intentions werent pure... 😭

And y do I think, that Draupadi's sharing was intentional?
For that u have to read all the sections before Draupadi's Swamvar thoroughly...Like u said, not everything can be proved with just citations...we need to read between the lines...Read all the sections from there n carefully observe Kunti's reactions, silence n even actions...U will realize y I think that way...

Believe me, apart from these two things, I actually like Kunti...n I HATE Kunti bashers...
Only a woman in her place would know how she felt when she had to abandon Karna... 😭

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra

Brishti, I am in no mood to edit that. And I am no Bengali. I love & respect Veda Vyasa than Tagore. I cannot change that. The problem with that poem is though one feels bad for both Kunti & Karna while reading, long after he read it, it is certainly Karna who stays back in memories because we all have faced rejection at one or another point of life & most have faced problems with parents at least once. So it is easy to conncet with Karna. But how many mothers had to face abandoning their kid? Until one is a mother, it is hard to understand how horrible is that. So most ppl will fail to know Kunti. And Kunti is my fav character in entire MB, more fav than Karna. So I dont care what others think. I do respect opinions of all people, even if that is against my opinion. If one can't understand that, that is not my problem.😊

Agreed completely...
In defence of Tagore, I would say that he had actually made Kunti appear more maternal than she was to Karna...
But somehow, after reading the poem, we sympathize with the abandoned child n not the mother who must have had a tough time all this while...
I seriously dont understand...y do people consider Kunti 'coward, selfish,' n so many other things?
Yes she was shrewd...but her shrewdness came because of the life she led...
I love the heart-wrenching conversation between Kunti and Lord Krishna where, for the first time, she says how her life had been...

@amrita

Originally posted by: indianprincess

@amrita

being a punjabi myself as far as my experience goes...punjabis are more into ramayan than MB.

draupadi is respected atleast in the older generationin punjab😆

i know many women of my grandmom's age who are named draupadi, even non hindus would name their daughter after her in punjab.. one being our close relative herself.

Then that is great news... 😃
Even I have a friend named Yajnaseni...but that is rare in Bengal...
I guess Bengal houses both haters n lovers of Draupadi... 😆 I have seen some of the worst haters of Draupadi to be Bengalis...n some of the biggest fans as well...

As for Karna, many Punjabis are named Karan...
And it's ironic that in Bengal, most people worship Karna but I have rarely come across a man whose named after Karna...
But I know a lot of Bengalis who are named Sabyasachi, Arjun, Parth,etc...

yes, karan name is very common especially among modern day punjabis and also delhiwallas(north indian to be precise).

I think people dont name Kunti n Gandhari bcoz they are not 'cool' enough...
In Bengal, many women are called Pritha...

Amrita, I read Tagore's poem just two days ago when Brishti shared it. In Vana Parva version of Karna's birth, there is a poem of Kunti weeping while she floats Karna away. Kunti ends her cry with
"Blessed also is that lady who will, O thou that are begotten by a god, take thee for her son, and who will give thee suck when thou art thirsty! And what a lucky dream hath been dreamt by her that will adopt thee for her son, thee that is endued with solar splendour, and furnished with celestial mail, and adorned with celestial ear-rings, thee that hast expansive eyes resembling lotuses, a complexion bright as burnished copper or lotus leaves, a fair forehead, and hair ending in beautiful curls! O son, she that will behold thee crawl on the ground, begrimed with dust, and sweetly uttering inarticulate words, is surely blessed! And she also, O son, that will behold thee arrive at thy youthful prime like maned lion born in Himalayan forests, is surely blessed!'"
and walks back to palace without looking back. It is even more beautiful & painful if you read the Sanskrit version with each word carrying a thousand feelings of Kunti's heart (I guess that is a beauty unique to Sanskrit only) that really made my eyes wet. So I much did not feel anything while reading Tagore's poem. Please dont misunderstand me. I just mean Vyasa's description of Kunti is really intense with emotions when she speaks about Karna. Also in Ashrama vasika Parva, 16 years after Karna's death, we see the same helpless teenage girl who floated her baby away, crying & cursing herself for his fate and no one was capable of mitigating her pain. So at both ends of Kunti's life, we see her love for Karna, immense & endless love I would say. I personally don't think Kunti ever loved her any other child as much as she loved Karna. And yes; one has to be Kunti to know Kunti.