Dharamkshetra discussion thread 2 - Page 23

As for the name issue, I must have to say that it's my favourite character whose name is never used 😭 I have heard Yajnaseni, Panchali, Krishnaa, Kalyani, Arjun, Partha, Sabyasachi, and even Karna. But none likes to name a baby boy after Yudhi, in fact his beautiful name is used to mock people (mostly in Bengal).

sema, i know many boys/men with yudi's name...so don't worry😆.

Originally posted by: indianprincess

sema, i know many boys/men with yudi's name...so don't worry😆.

not as common as arjun but still.

btw did u happen to watch any of ekta kapoors soap, many of her male character's had that name.

Wow that's a good news 😳 thank you for letting me know. No I watch nothing except Mythological serials or films. But if Ekta Kapoor did so, please tell me few names so that I can watch just to hear the name

sema, watch "raja ki ayegi baraat" soap on youtube, its was an old star plus show (8 yrs old) lead of the show was named "kunwar yudhishtir".

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra

Amrita, I read Tagore's poem just two days ago when Brishti shared it. In Vana Parva version of Karna's birth, there is a poem of Kunti weeping while she floats Karna away. Kunti ends her cry with
"Blessed also is that lady who will, O thou that are begotten by a god, take thee for her son, and who will give thee suck when thou art thirsty! And what a lucky dream hath been dreamt by her that will adopt thee for her son, thee that is endued with solar splendour, and furnished with celestial mail, and adorned with celestial ear-rings, thee that hast expansive eyes resembling lotuses, a complexion bright as burnished copper or lotus leaves, a fair forehead, and hair ending in beautiful curls! O son, she that will behold thee crawl on the ground, begrimed with dust, and sweetly uttering inarticulate words, is surely blessed! And she also, O son, that will behold thee arrive at thy youthful prime like maned lion born in Himalayan forests, is surely blessed!'"
and walks back to palace without looking back. It is even more beautiful & painful if you read the Sanskrit version with each word carrying a thousand feelings of Kunti's heart (I guess that is a beauty unique to Sanskrit only) that really made my eyes wet. So I much did not feel anything while reading Tagore's poem. Please dont misunderstand me. I just mean Vyasa's description of Kunti is really intense with emotions when she speaks about Karna. Also in Ashrama vasika Parva, 16 years after Karna's death, we see the same helpless teenage girl who floated her baby away, crying & cursing herself for his fate and no one was capable of mitigating her pain. So at both ends of Kunti's life, we see her love for Karna, immense & endless love I would say. I personally don't think Kunti ever loved her any other child as much as she loved Karna. And yes; one has to be Kunti to know Kunti.

Jamy...u are the first Karna fan that I have come across to ever say this...
Not only these but, when Karna was crowned the King of Anga, she was very happy...
Why would she be so happy, if she didnt care about him?
Why would she send spies to see if her child had got a good place to live?

I cannot say whether Kunti loved Karna the most or not...On the surface, she did let him down...
But I hate it when people call her names for this...
I have practically yelled it a million times in various threads in the forum n even in my OS...Kunti was a shrewd woman...BUT SHE WAS A HUMAN BEING..She too had her own obligations...
She had made quite a few decisions which arent exactly righteous...n there are somethings for which she is not my favourite...
But I really support her for many things...She was not a very happy woman...

It's not easy to get accustomed to a new family...to do 'seva' of sages n get pregnant...to let go of a first-born...to get married to an impotent man..to embrace exile to hide her husband's impotency...to do 'seva' of few more sages to get children...to lose your husband (bcoz he was making love to her prettier Sautan)...to almost lose Bhima...to make sure her son got his rights in competitve environment... to watch two sons killing each other...to let one son die for the sake of the others...

So, yes...Kunti was shrewd but she had suffered a lot too...Unlike Draupadi, who was quite vocal about her sufferings, Kunti usually remained silent...n thus her shrewd side got more prominence...
I may not be a Kunti fan but I do echo your thoughts completely... 😊

Jamy...Being a Bengali n a die-hard Tagore fan, I would like to say this that maybe u didnt connect to the poem bcoz u didnt read it in Bengali...
And i didnt take ur words offensively against Tagore... 😊 U have every right to disagree with him...
Every person has the right to like/dislike a piece of art...

I was once mocked in this forum for not liking Karna, despite being a Bengali...
Supposedly, just bcoz Tagore n Swami Vivekananda liked Karna...n most Bengalis love Karna, it is compulsory for me to like Karna too... 😆
I totally disagreed...I may not like even the greatest piece of art...we all have the right to disagree...as long as we are doing it decently... 😊

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra

Brishti, I am in no mood to edit that. And I am no Bengali. I love & respect Veda Vyasa than Tagore. I cannot change that. The problem with that poem is though one feels bad for both Kunti & Karna while reading, long after he read it, it is certainly Karna who stays back in memories because we all have faced rejection at one or another point of life & most have faced problems with parents at least once. So it is easy to conncet with Karna. But how many mothers had to face abandoning their kid? Until one is a mother, it is hard to understand how horrible is that. So most ppl will fail to know Kunti. And Kunti is my fav character in entire MB, more fav than Karna. So I dont care what others think. I do respect opinions of all people, even if that is against my opinion. If one can't understand that, that is not my problem.😊
In case of Karna-Arjuna, I like them both. Arjuna I like from childhood & Karna after I began reading KMG. So I don't wanna see one in bad light for another. As per me, whether Karna was good or jealous or wicked or not any of those has nothing to do with Arjuna & vice versa. You may have a diff opinion & I respect that. Here is the citation you asked. It is from Shanti Parva. If Karna was Drona's student, he was not much aged to be not corrected by a guru. And the reason Karna was told for denying knowledge is not the reason we read just before that. So that means Drona knew who Karna was & still he denied. Drona's problem was not Karna's caste or skill, but only Arjuna.
Karna one day approached Drona in private and said these words unto him, 'I desire to be acquainted with the Brahma weapon, with all its mantras and the power of withdrawing it, for I desire to fight Arjuna. Without doubt, the affection thou bearest to every one of thy pupils is equal to what thou bearest to thy own son. I pray that all the masters of the science of weapons may, through thy grace, regard me as one accomplished in weapons!' Thus addressed by him, Drona, from partiality for Phalguna, as also from his knowledge of the wickedness of Karna, said, 'None but a Brahmana, who has duly observed all vows, should be acquainted with the Brahma weapon, or a Kshatriya that has practised austere penances, and no other.'

Thanks Jamy for the citation. I 😊seriously wasn't aware of that and now I know it had got to do with Arjun also. but there is something in bold right after that so my reasoning is not totally discarded...

Originally posted by: Adishakti

I feel the problem with Karna and Kunti is that while people look at Karna from Kaliyug perspective, they don't extend the same courtesy to Kunti

Karna was abandoned at birth by his birth mother...we keep blaming Kunti for that because being unwed mother is not such a big deal now..women are independent enough and more than that society is tolerant enough to accept them. Kunti did not have the option of keeping him

She actually did a favor to Karna by leaving him in water. he got adopted by decent parents and got a chance at life. If Kunti had not abandoned him it would have been either death or life worse than death for both of them

and the fact that vyasa mentions Surya as the father who is a God revered by Hindus completely obliterated the fact that...Kunti was 12-13 year old child, who did not have the maturity or perspective to understand implication of her actions

If the same thing happened today, by an ordinary mortal...it would have been rape and Karna would have been a rape child. And the only one who would get blamed for Karna's plight would be his father.

And actually praise Kunti for giving birth to the child and letting it go so that it adopted in a loving family.

As far as revealing the truth only before war..why not..except a couple of insults what was wrong in Karna's life for Kunti to jeopardize her other children's future for him..except Draupadi and brahmastra what else was missing in his life, for Kunti to state the truth and ruin Pandavas lives

When war became inevitable she did what any good mother would do, try to ensure her sons victory, she asked Karna to join Pandavs so that all six of them can win. and if that was not possible atleast safeguard their lives..if not all of them atleast as many as possible.. Why she didn't tell pandavs..if she told them Pandavas wouldn't fight.btheqn duryodhan and the whole world will know. Would duryodhan be nice to pandavs when if he came to know the truth. Hell would he be nice to Karna if he came to know the truth

Totally agree with whatever you said Adi... 😊

Originally posted by: amritat

😆
I actually tend to write long long posts...Brevity is something I am yet to learn...

As for Bengalis...I agree completely...Bengalis are the biggest worshippers of Karna...
Best examples of that are in this forum only...
Even KMG is often called a Karna fan n he was a Bengali... 😆

But I have also seen the same fandom in South...Someone once told me that in South India, SEVENTEEN movies in total have been made on Karna... 😆 Dont know how true that is!!
But I can well imagine how Draupadi was portrayed in them... 😉

Anyway, this is something we cannot change...
I guess because Banga is a part of Anga...n maybe that's y, there is so much of Karna worship here...
But then that should make most Punjabis fans of Panchali too...not sure wat is her status in Punjab... 😆

I agree that Michael Madhusudan Dutta was the pioneer of the Inversion Theory...
But I dont mind that unless the facts are distorted...
If someone says Duryodhan was a better warrior than Bhima...then I dont mind that...because he was.
But if someone says he asked Draupadi to sit on his thighs because he felt sorry that she was standing n yelling for so long n needed a place to sit n rest... 🤢 then... 🤢
I actually do not consider any of them as villains anymore, except Dushasen...so Inversion Theory is fine,as long as there is logic n integrity in the portayal n no intensional whitewashing of the villains...

And y do I think so about Kunti?
Well...I once read a citation...a conversation between Kunti n Lord Krishna where Kunti clearly states her motives for visiting Karna...Please check that once...I am very bad at providing citations...
She clearly states wat she want...so I cant help but feel that her intentions werent pure... 😭

And y do I think, that Draupadi's sharing was intentional?
For that u have to read all the sections before Draupadi's Swamvar thoroughly...Like u said, not everything can be proved with just citations...we need to read between the lines...Read all the sections from there n carefully observe Kunti's reactions, silence n even actions...U will realize y I think that way...

Believe me, apart from these two things, I actually like Kunti...n I HATE Kunti bashers...
Only a woman in her place would know how she felt when she had to abandon Karna... 😭

Originally posted by: amritat

Then that is great news... 😃
Even I have a friend named Yajnaseni...but that is rare in Bengal...
I guess Bengal houses both haters n lovers of Draupadi... 😆 I have seen some of the worst haters of Draupadi to be Bengalis...n some of the biggest fans as well...

As for Karna, many Punjabis are named Karan...
And it's ironic that in Bengal, most people worship Karna but I have rarely come across a man whose named after Karna...
But I know a lot of Bengalis who are named Sabyasachi, Arjun, Parth,etc...

I have heard from my grandmother that she actually fought with my dad (His name is Sabyasachi 😆) for naming me Yajnaseni...😊 I wish I was named that 😭