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CaptainSpark thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: AnuMP



Its not our on theory. There are various versions around. Even the original is thought to have grown from 8K verses to 100 K verses. How do we know which is true?

In the Gingee performances it says, Panchali was garlanded by Kandapati (Arjun) but protected all 5. Its not really made clear if she was married to all 5. Indo version says she was married to Yudhi

I don't see that it is crystal clear at all. As Arijit says, its completely confusing and they all contradict each other



I prefer to take the Sanskrit version which is said to be written by Vyasa as the base for discussing Mahabharat or giving my opinion. Everyone wants to create their own version with their society as the base. The results are what we get today. But the authentic Sanskrit one is the one I guess is most reliable.
DharmaPriyaa thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Krishna's words: Sanjay-yaan parvadhyaya:

Then in that hall, while Krishna stood, the charioteer's son addressed her in the presence of her fathers-in-law saying, 'O Daughter of Drupada thou hast no refuge. Better betake thyself as a bond-woman to the house of Dhritarashtra's son. Thy husbands, being defeated, no longer exist. Thou hast a loving soul, choose some one else for thy lord.' This speech, proceeding from Karna, was a wordy arrow, sharp, cutting all hopes, hitting the tenderest parts of the organisation, and frightful. It buried itself deep in Arjuna's heart.

Krishna's speech before Karna vadh:


"Sanjaya said, 'Then Vasudeva, stationed on the car, addressed Karna, saying, "By good luck it is, O son of Radha, that thou rememberest virtue! It is generally seen that they that are mean, when they sink into distress, rail at Providence but never at their own misdeeds. Thyself and Suyodhana and Duhshasana and Shakuni, the son of Subala, had caused Draupadi, clad in a single piece of raiment, to be brought into the midst of the assembly. On that occasion, O Karna, this virtue of thine did not manifest itself. When at the assembly Shakuni, an adept in dice, vanquished Kunti's son Yudhishthira who was unacquainted with it, whither had this virtue of thine gone? When the Kuru king (Duryodhana), acting under thy counsels, treated Bhimasena in that way with the aid of snakes and poisoned food, whither had this virtue of thine then gone? When the period of exile into the woods was over as also the thirteenth year, thou didst not make over to the Pandavas their kingdom. Whither had this virtue of thine then gone? Thou didst set fire to the house of lac at Varanavata for burning to death the sleeping Pandavas. Whither then, O son of Radha, had this virtue of thine gone? Thou laughedest at Krishna while she stood in the midst of the assembly, scantily dressed because in her season and obedient to Duhshasana's will, whither, then, O Karna, had this virtue of thine gone? When from the apartment reserved for the females innocent Krishna was dragged, thou didst not interfere. Whither, O son of Radha, had this virtue of thine gone? Thyself addressing the princess Draupadi, that lady whose tread is as dignified as that of the elephant, in these words, viz., 'The Pandavas, O Krishna, are lost. They have sunk into eternal hell. Do thou choose another husband!' thou lookedest on the scene with delight. Whither then, O Karna, had this virtue of thine gone? Covetous of kingdom and relying on the ruler of the Gandharvas, thou summonedest the Pandavas (to a match of dice). Whither then had this virtue of thine gone? When many mighty car-warriors, encompassing the boy Abhimanyu in battle, slew him, whither had this virtue of thine then gone? If this virtue that thou now invokest was nowhere on those occasions, what is the use then of parching thy palate now, by uttering that word? Thou art now for the practice of virtue, O Suta, but thou shalt not escape with life. Like Nala who was defeated by Pushkara with the aid of dice but who regained his kingdom by prowess, the Pandavas, who are free from cupidity, will recover their kingdom by the prowess of their arms, aided with all their friends. Having slain in battle their powerful foes, they, with the Somakas, will recover their kingdom. The Dhartarashtras will meet with destruction at the hands of those lions among men (viz., the sons of Pandu), that are always protected by virtue!'"


Dhritarashtra's words about Karna:

Dhritarashtra said, ... In no time will they be appeased towards us, for though treated treacherously (by foes), yet they are righteous and good. In no case, O Sanjaya, have I ever met with any untruthfulness on the part of the Pandavas. It was by their own valour that they had won all their prosperity, and (yet) they were ever dutiful to me. Though I scrutinized their conduct, I could never find fault with them,--no, not even a single fault for which we might blame them. They always act mindful of virtue and wealth; they never give way to love of sensual enjoyments, or cold, or hunger, or thirst; they subdue steep and laziness and wrath and joy and heedlessness. The sons of Pritha, mindful of both virtue and wealth, are ever pleasant to all. On proper occasions they part with their wealth to friends. Friendship with them never loses its ardour on account of length of time; for they bestow honours and wealth on every one according to his deserts. Not a soul in the race of Ajamida ever entertains hatred for them excepting this vile, capricious, dull-headed Duryodhana, and excepting also the still more mean-minded Karna. These two always enhance the energy of those high-souled ones who have been divested of both friends and happiness.


^^^ [could not resist this one 😆 even the blind king knew his son's friend. I can remember that Gandhari too said something similar about Karna after war.]
DharmaPriyaa thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Anukramanikaa parvadhyaya of Aadi Parva has a count of verse numbers of each Parvas. We should check that number. Only then one can say which Parva has how much interpolation. Let me check about Sabha Parva.
And Anukramanikaa has a summery of whole story. it does mention VH. So I can't believe VH is an interpolation.
Edited by Urmila11 - 10 years ago
AnuMP thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Brishti_Sarkar



I prefer to take the Sanskrit version which is said to be written by Vyasa as the base for discussing Mahabharat or giving my opinion. Everyone wants to create their own version with their society as the base. The results are what we get today. But the authentic Sanskrit one is the one I guess is most reliable.


The only one we have access to is the one that has been put to paper many centuries later. Since it went from 8K to 100K verses, no one really knows which ones Vyasa wrote, do we?

Who is to say the Sanskrit version available now is not the distorted one and the southern or Nepali (considered least distorted by scholars) are not more accurate?😊
AnuMP thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

I had thought Devaki was Kamsa's sister and Ugrasena's daughter. This looks like she was Kamsa's cousin. Ugrasena did have a daughter Kanka. Haven't yet found any of her descendants or who she was married to


https://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/hv_1_37.html


King Ahuka begat two sons, who looked like the sons of celestials, on the daughter of the king of Kashi... these two sons are called devaka and ugra-sena. King devaka had four sons equal to celestials; he also begat seven nymphean daughters called devaki, shanti-deva, su-deva, deva-rakShita, vR^ika-devi, upa-devI and sunAsi... he conferred all the seven daughters on vasu-deva in marriage...


ugra-sena had nine sons of whom kamsa is the eldest. Others are nyagrodha, su-nAma, ka~Nka, sha~Nku, su-bhUmi-pa, rAShTra-pAla, su-tanu, anAdhR^iShTi and puShTimAn. These nine had five sisters, namely kaMsa, kaMsa-vati, su-tanu, rAShTra-pAli, and the beautiful damsel ka~Nka...

Brahmaputra thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
@Brishti - you have got a point there regarding original version. But if we strictly go with that, we will end up being confused. For eg, Karna, acc to Sanskrit books available today, was a student of Drona along with Kuru princes. But in the same book, there are other events & dialogues which all prove that Karna was NEVER a student of Drona. Also there are many things that conclude he was never a student of Drona. All these are found in same book. Which one will you believe? This is just an example. There are hundreds of other facts like this. All of those cannot be true. Only one can be the truth. There is the problem.
PS- I am quoting Karna only because that is the only character in entire MB I read fully about. Hope you don't mind.
Edited by Brahmaputra - 10 years ago
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Posted: 10 years ago
😆
Edited by Brahmaputra - 10 years ago
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Brishti_Sarkar

Nevertheless I believe Karna did have part to play in the dice hall. In the negative way.

May I know what makes you believe so strongly? Please don't get me wrong. I am in no way intend to argue & prove his innocence here. Just curious to know why.
Brahmaputra thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Hmmm.. So Devaki was Kamsa's cousin. I had always thought she was his sister. Now it is Kanka who is his own sister.
AnuMP thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Not only that this book says he was in love with her😆 and Jarasandh stopped him from marrying her.
Also looks like he was the product of a rape😭


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