Suman : the anti-thesis of what Shravan is looking for in a partner - Page 4

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JJKKL thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#31
I have not seen the episode yet. But your post is very beautifully written. Looking back - maybe the CVs are brilliant. Each and every scene is there for a reason.

The sudden proposal for Preeti. Note that it is not for Suman. The proposal is just to bring to focus that Suman has to get married first.

Suman manipulating Shravan's marriage discussion. Note that this came after her "advice" on his taking over the company. The latter he let go because she said she could not lie about it. But not the former. It was clear manipulation. Which made him erupt.

Ramnath's crash was probably not to highlight his love for his father. But for Shravan to remember later how Sumo cared for him. How she stood by his side.

It is like connecting the dots which make more sense once it is connected. So I guess we have to give them time and see what they have in store.

And now to that famous letter. Maybe Shravan still holds on to it as it defines the boundary where his bad times started with Sumo. The letter was the highest point of his affection for her and their friendship. From there on it was downhill. Hence his holding onto it for so many years.


indranigupta thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#32

Bang on post Sammy

Excellent review👏

Your title reminds me of my post which I had written few weeks back titled Order and Disorder...

Well.. Shravan Malhotra surprised me today with the kind of venom he spewed today. There were signs of it earlier but yesterday... by far, was the worst example of how negative his views of women can be and regressive as well.

Anti-thesis to what Sumo had been expecting of her so-called tests. 😆

But, if you look beyond the collage we saw yesterday with so many jerks and unnecessary piling of flashbacks, I found certain signs of synthesis as well...

Sumo for all the negative things she had heard him spew earlier.. still went upstairs and though she knocked she did not forsake him. That is enough of a synthesis to tell you that the future might not be rosy yet this girl will be there for him. Hovering in the background. Cut back to the traumatic scene few days back when she did not leave for a second. Hugging him as if it was her very life

Reminds me of the time when young Sumo fought on his behalf with the lady... something which both of his parents failed to do.

Sumo is also an independent girl like his mother, fighting off odds on a daily basis yet look at the way she nurtures her family... cherishing the very memory of her past.

Something which Ramnath failed to aspire in his son... the son looks at the memory of his mother and is filled with bitterness. A bitterness which colours the best parts of his personality in black

Nirmala wanted to give her son a good life and insisted on the money angle when she was arguing with the father

Sumo also wants a good life.. remember the first episode when she bought the trench coat (something like that) and yet willingly gives it to her sister. Sumo wanted to save the house from the clutches of Khosla yet she did not consider a 6 crores cheque enough... why because money cannot buy Truth or Love.

And lastly, Sumo knows of the letter and is aware of her own feelings for him and yet she allows him to move on... the day of his goodbye (50th and 51st episode)... Move on, sacrifice her own feelings so that he could be happy. Even if that meant her own life coming to a standstill

Coming to the play out of the promo.. pyaar vs samman, Sumo will move on from this MCP Shravan but yet shall treasure the image of her teenage, nerdy friend in her heart. Only the teenage, nerdy friend you say...

And Shravan, presently, is in fact, the very image of anti-thesis to Sumo, believing in the adage "Frailty thy name is woman"

Yet.. is it so simple as that?

Why did Shravan come back to give a swing to Sumo? Who was that Shravan? Simply a friend, well then he is great friend😆

A friend who values the simplest and the most heart-felt wishes of a young girl can he be simply termed as MCP? This is how he has become... from a good friend to a really bad species of the male order (which he did encapsulate in yesterday's episode, btw😡)

He was good and now he has moved on to be a bad specimen... Anti-thesis

That one smile, the last smile he tried to put on his friend's face can it be simply that... a one good gesture among the many bad ones that he does or shall set out to do in the near future

Winning the case for her, for her Nanu for the home, for the memories, for Truth. And learning through her example that good things in life matter more than giving in to family pressure... Is it all an example of his negative traits that was so explicitly shown yesterday?

Who was the guy who managed to see through Sumo's pushing him and even cutting his hand?

And mind you she was a woman and yet he could see it was he who was wrong

Sumo's inane tests shall come in handy one day to tell us beyond this conundrum of anti-thesis/disorder... there is a man who was willing to wait for his friend not only at the parlour but also, willing to carry an image of the girl (example of female species he hates and despises) he locks up in that letter. JJ said the letter is resplendent of a time when his affection was at its peak and then the downhill started. Yes but for me,little more than that. The letter stands of a realization that she, Sumo was always special... one who he wanted to keep beside himself. She who was a woman and not merely his friend. The letter is also of a belief that there are other times, other meanings to life, to relationship, towards love and of what he has gathered in these past ten years about who is a woman.

Pyaar vs samman

Yes, Sumo should and would choose samman and yet

Pyaar would play its part as it did with the Khosla case

If earlier he came back from the airport, having managed to stifle the heart-vs mind conundrum to rediscover himself... this anti-thesis shall play its part to bring forth synthesis we so much look forward to.

Sammy you say, that Shravan has moved on to the very-anti-thesis of Sumo's wanting a woman who who should be at his beck and call; yet a man who at a very young age was willing to let go of his wife if she cooked what he did not like went on to relish the same dish made by the same woman. Moved on usually means moving from one point to another... Where has Shravan Malhotra moved on to? From young sensitive boy to an image of what we saw yesterday... yet, this same Shravan is the first one to seek the rekindling of her friendship, terming it as the most beautiful ehsaas.

He will move on one day to the that time in the night when he was all alone, literally and figuratively and there was only one person to support him. A woman and an orphan. He will move on to that image. He will move on also to the fact this women tried to make him articulate what he could not do or wanted to do. That he loves somebody and has always done so. And to whom, voila! as Lalaji said, ladki se😆

He will be the first one to understand the meaning of that plane crash of his father which never happened... that all women are not the same. Some are special... and meant to be with each other for ever. And this was always there, this small voice within him one which made him not write that letter and yet to keep it safe with him for these so many years. He will move on probably (I believe) to add something more to the letter... after as you say he has moved on

Well, we have been going on about the promo now being played out to its full potential. True. Yet, if you remember the first promo, Sumo after hearing that he has moved on flings the pictures she carried with herself and leaves. Yet, as the pictures fall all over the place, at the center of it all is Shravan lingering behind her.

We want to see them together.. but right now.. there still a long way to go. Even for Sumo... how long can she dependent on the meaning of a letter written ten years ago? He might have moved on as we all are carping on. So, on learning this fact where will Sumo move on and how?

And for once, I have started to like this Preekar relationship... one thing which is sunny among the darkness of the past, present and future of our lead couple.

Great post Sammy

Loved it to the core

Edited by indranigupta - 9 years ago
redwine1 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#33

Originally posted by: AyeChavanni


Just wanted to discuss some of the major parallels I noticed in today's episode between Ramnath/Nirmala & ShraMan..

Seems like the real theme of the show - Self respect VS love is coming into play finally. IMO this show was never just about 2 friends reconciling & becoming one.. that is just part 1 of the story which we've finally crossed. Now comes the second part - the real deal.
ShraMan's connect was always there even when they were apart from each other. They were out of sight, but never out of each other's mind & hearts. The love was always there. Getting to the confession is not a problem either, because its only time that they will realise their feelings for each other. The real conflict IMO has always lied in their different outlooks towards life which have been shaped by their own circumstances & prejudices.

Suman is ambitious & wants to be independent. She wants to earn money, pay off the debt that didn't let her parents live a peaceful life. Nanu wants to find a man for her who will support her in fulfilling her dreams & ambitions.. question is will Shravan be able to support her?
The answer is not that easy.

Shravan has decided to move on from the past & start afresh with Suman as a friend. But has the past been forgotten? NO. The past holds memories of his mother leaving when he needed her the most. It holds memories of Suman breaking his trust when he needed her the most. As a friend he can overlook what Suman did, but as a husband will he able to overlook what she did?

Shravan wants a woman who will never leave his side.. and today he questioned his mother's absence for the last decade.. did she ever check up on how he is doing? Parallel. Did Suman contact Shravan over the past decade?

Shravan wants a woman who will wait for him "ladkiyon ko wait karaya jaata hai" & won't think too much. Quite unlike what Suman is.. quite unlike what his mother was. Parallel.

Shravan wants a woman who isn't manipulative & a woman without an ego. Quite unlike his mother who two-timed (even though its not the truth). Quite unlike his mother who was persistent in proving herself right against Ramnath while her son lay in bed. She even left him. Quite unlike Suman who "manipulated" Ramnath & Lalaji into coaxing Shravan for marriage & did not give him his space.

Also its interesting that Ramnath noticed Suman's independence (her working which he disapproved of in the first episode) as well as her ability to balance family (Ramnath thanking Suman for taking care of Shravan).. something Nirmala was never able to do.

Shravan may love Suman from the depths of his soul.. but in his practical mind (at least until he realises his love for her) she will never be his choice because she is not the kind of life partner he is looking for. She is quite the anti-thesis of the woman he is looking for. He has truly moved on in that sense.

Looking forward to see how Shravan moves past his prejudices to accept that it is Suman for him, even though she isn't the one he has been looking for. And that Suman is able to recieve the much needed love in her life without compromising her self respect.
Kyunki mil jaate hai dil jo bane.. Ek Duje Ke Vaaste❤️


Do share your thoughts.

Cheers,
Samridhi



Hi Samridhi

AM coming in very late in this discussion .. i see some pages already filled with thots ...
Thank u for the write up .. i loved the parallels u have drawn ... very interesting ..they make one think

I would love to answer most of the queries u have raised here ... but a lot of the queries ... are answers that will be given in due course of the show ... my answers will simply give the plot away ...

heres a thot ... Kamini chachi .. is she wrong in the show .. or is she a mother who wants her sons right ... a son Pushkar .. who stood by Ramnath & assisted him .. he is the one who knows the working of Malhotra associates .. he is truly the right hand man for Ramnath .. he is being shunted to the side .. infact he is not even in consideration ... just because the son of the owner is back ... NEPOTISM at its best ... is she wrong in wanting equality for her son ... ???

No she is not ..her ways may not be right ... & this aspect of Kamini ... Shravan understands .. a mother who stands strong & is willing to sacrifice everything for her son ... maybe he craves ... she is hence a grey character ... not a negative

Suman .. he is angry with her when he comes back .. but he patiently hears her side of the story .. he also has seen the altruistic side of Suman .. its after he sees the multiple sides which make up suman .. he offers her a life long attachment ... FRIENDSHIP .. for him thats the ultimate thing he can offer . since the institution of marriage & love to him are not reliable emotions .. he knows friendship ... its friendship which survived the test of time ...

Is she anti thesis of the woman who he is looking for??? .. he said i want a woman .who will not quit on me .. who will be standing by me when i am at my lowest ... who will support me in my life's struggles ... a woman who will be his strength ... who will lead him right ...

All of which SUMAN has already done ... hence the 'duniya ka sabse khoobsurat ehsaas' dosti was offered to her .. for him the biggest platform or commitment he could offer .. the one commitment which he has MADE for LIFE & that to by his choice ...

So heres my question .. how is she anti thesis of what he wants .. unlike his father .. he is the one who has supported her in her work endeavours .. he has understood that she has ethics & he has respected that ethic ... he did take back the 3 lacs she gave him back ... he also took the fees ...from her ..in kind in promise .. but he understands her self respect hence takes back the 6 crores ... if he did not recognise this .. would he have offered the duniya ka sabse khoobsurat ehsaas' dosti to her ?

Did they Shravan & Suman ever sit & discuss what happened that fateful that 10 years back .. no it was a simple discussion .. where she told him .. what she was .. she showed him her flawed side .. she made a mistake .. & she apologised for the same ... she was a kid who craved attention .. that was not a grave mistake .. he immediately put her back on the pedestal he had sat her 11 years back .. coz he was a guy ..who did not have prejudices .. he had questions .. he was a thwarted lover ...
The questions were answered & back came the friendship on track ... any guesses will the thwarted lover get his answer .. its in the promo which ran before the current one ...

Is it possible .. that what Shravan seeks now is answers ... a very interesting thing in todays episode was ... he kept calling his mother ... NIRMALA AHUJA ... does he already know a bit about his mother .. & what was most interesting his major grouse with his mother is .. SHE WALKED OUT ... & THAT SHE DID NOT EVEN CONTACT HIM ...

I thought that was very mature ..he realised .. couples part ... but mothers don't part from their kids ... i thought that was a very sublime thot ..

Its ofcourse a wait & watch to see how the story unfolds ...











indranigupta thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#34
So heres my question .. how is she anti thesis of what he wants .. unlike his father .. he is the one who has supported her in her work endeavours .. he has understood that she has ethics & he has respected that ethic ... he did take back the 3 lacs she gave him back ... he also took the fees ...from her ..in kind in promise .. but he understands her self respect hence takes back the 6 crores ... if he did not recognise this .. would he have offered the duniya ka sabse khoobsurat ehsaas' dosti to her ?
This is one of the best things that Shravan did. He allowed her independence to shine through. He valued her ethics and her integrity. Also, to a certain extent his random observations about women to Sumo was because she was objectively outside this picture of women he has nurtured over the years. During their conversation together yesterday in spite of his anger he took her by her shoulders tried to explain those feelings which he has kept suppressed for long. Yet, he was not manhandling her. He allowed her to intrude into his subconscious which I believe even his father has not been able to penetrate.



@ Red we have been speaking in the same language... You have influenced me badly. (Do check my post on page 4 of this same post)
But, I love you for this. 😳
Edited by indranigupta - 9 years ago
redwine1 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#35

Originally posted by: indranigupta

So heres my question .. how is she anti thesis of what he wants .. unlike his father .. he is the one who has supported her in her work endeavours .. he has understood that she has ethics & he has respected that ethic ... he did take back the 3 lacs she gave him back ... he also took the fees ...from her ..in kind in promise .. but he understands her self respect hence takes back the 6 crores ... if he did not recognise this .. would he have offered the duniya ka sabse khoobsurat ehsaas' dosti to her ?
<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="3" color="#cc0000">This is one of the best things that Shravan did. He allowed her independence to shine through. He valued her ethics and her integrity. Also, to a certain extent his random observations about women to Sumo was because she was objectively outside thispicture of women he has nurtured over the years. Duringtheir conversation together yesterday in spite of his anger he took her by her shoulders tried to explain those feelings which he has kept suppressed for long. Yet, he was not manhandling her. He allowed her to intrude into his subconscious which I believe even his father has not been able to penetrate.</font>



<font color="#cc0000">@ Red we have been speaking in the same language... You have influenced me badly. (Do check my post on page 4 of this same post)</font>
<font color="#cc0000">But, I love you for this.😳</font>




Love u 2 ... Oops or let's just be friends

Why do v need to compartmentalise the characters ... this shows is incredible coz of the simplicity of the narrative ... Look at the past of shravan & Suman the maturity of the writer shone thru then ... It's about an immature displaced girl who was desperate to "fit in"
There was no jugglery in the narrative

I think what the writer is trying to say thru his narrative is not everything in life is black & white .. Grey exists & in real life there's more grey than a black & white
For a marriage to break it takes 2 people ... As off now the blame has been on the mother ... It would be interesting to see her PoV
sanfan thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#36
Samridhi,

A wonderful post...👏makes you interpret the track in different ways..

Before coming to the anti-thesis conundrum..I want to share my understanding of where the track is placed (i could be way out in my interpretation too😆😆)

I see the current track as a detour in story telling to position the actual story at the point of the original promos of the show...this detour was intentional in my view (my hindsight knowledge really) becos if this was the Shravan we had met at the start of the show as per the promos...i doubt we would have had too many takers for his side in the story or would have given this love story a chance..The detour was primarily taken for us to give us a real glimpse of these two characters Shravan and Suman...the two lovers-to-be

Today, we are looking at Shravan, with new eyes becos he had given us several glimpses of his goodness despite us having an inkling of his distrust of women. Well... nothing is as off-putting in a man as the trait of misogyny...maybe a bit of a strong word but yes, personally I have little sympathy for a character who uses a warped vision of the world to justify his prejudices. Actually, reformative love is a favourite theme in love stories (the reel ones only I hope) but honestly not every such theme can be appreciated because soaps use very strange methods to go about the process. I hope EDKV is different in its treatment..so far it has been decent...

The only reason I look out for this character is because, I see that he can reassess his understanding based on new knowledge. As Indrani/Red correctly pointed out, despite his warped understanding, he has been able to make a distinction between the position of mother and wife. He carried a wound to his heart for 10 long years, plotted revenge when goaded yet he was able to make a distinction between real and imagined slights to his ego. He was able to restore his and Sumo's relationship to past glory (almost😉) after a meaningful exchange on the terrace about "ehsaas"

Red's point about Chachi is very important in this discussion...He was able to appreciate Chachi's position becos he saw her looking out for her children, something his mother had not done in his case. So, he values that aspect even if he may know that her means to achieve it may be underhand.

So, in other words, this detour of letting us have a real glimpse of Shravan before his vulnerable side is now on full view (and not all of it pretty) was intentional so that we like Sumo have a better understanding of this man.

However, this story is Sumo centric so it means that this understanding that Sumo gains or Sumo applies will give new meaning to this love story. The promo said at the start "kya chunegi Suman" so there most likely is going to be a reapplication and readjustment of all relations...Interesting I would say..

Shravan's own knowledge is going to get revised and he is going to find new meanings to old defintions.

-Rushali- thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#37
At first, hats off for such a well drafted analysis👏 It was indeed a complex scenario..but you've done it with extreme brilliance⭐️

Some of the folks here didn't like yesterday's episode much..I agree it wasn't a 'feel-good' type..but it was a high octane episode, from the 1st scene till the precap..And I quite liked it. Also its the landmark episode..bcoz finally the actual story kick started!

Samridhi..I'm in sync with everything you said..and I couldn't agree more when you said, the confession isn't the big deal here. Exactly!! We haven't sign up for a 'boy-meets-girl' story..its much more mature & real. Love is there and will always be..but just bcoz they are in love..they are not identical personalities or some reincarnated soul mates from past life! They have different persona & mindset formed by their own set of life experiences..so they gotta have conflicts like real ppl! Here love is not at all 'tailor-made' and for me, that's the beauty of the story👍🏼 The crux of this story was always Shraman's journey to discover love..and to rediscover themselves!

Apart from this, I've loved the way you've structured the parallels Likewise wanna list out some, which shows 'exception' is the word for Suman..from Shravan's standpoint. As you said, Shravan wants a woman who will wait for him "Ladkiyon ko wait karaya jaata hai"..but when it comes to Suman, this conveniently becomes "Mujhe toh aadat hai tumhara intezaar karne ki" Also, he seems to be a guy who never forgets & forgives..again when its Suman..he can very much forget as well as forgive..that too with least persuasion! This is really amazing to watch..that he consciously claim to have 'moved-on' but ironically his unacquainted love for Suman still rules his sub-conscious!

He says, "Suman, kuch nahi badalne wala" lekin kuch badlega toh Suman ke haathon aur Suman ke liye hi badlega! But for that to happen Suman needs to grow up from her mills&boon phase and stop imagining Sharvan to be her destined prince charming! She needs to evolve herself in order to become the lady who can accept the fact that "Pyaar aur Sanman ke alag alag hai raaste"..but at the end hopefully she will get both😃

Lastly, there is an uproar in the forum about Shravan being an MCP or not? From my pov..definitely he is! And that's been implied from the 1st promo of EDKV itself!! But Shravan is not an MCP by choice..rather driven by circumstances! That's why he has a chance to 'recover' and love will surely overpower his hatred😊



Edited by -Rushali- - 9 years ago
OmaRamdass thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#38
Sam you are so awesome in your analysis
You are very insightful


puba thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#39

Originally posted by: AyeChavanni


I totally agree with you on one point - I would run the moment I encounter a man like Shravan. Women often see men like Shravan as a project who they want to understand & change. That's why the love for the bad guys. Its the trend, be it on Indian TV or American TV. I'm so glad that Suman is not like that.. her love & her reasons for staying, stem from Shravan the man she once knew, who was soft-hearted & kind, & not because she is attracted to his cold, angry young man personality.

Shravan's charcter is flawed, but I don't think his characterisation is flawed. His dislike for women in general was there since day 1 & throughout the series, there has been subtle hints of his misogynistic thinking that he inherited from his father. And that is Shravan the man. With Suman, he is not Shravan the man, he is Shravan the friend. We have different sets of expectations from our friends & from our life partners. For instance, many men find it OK to have women friends who sleep around but in a wife, most men want a virgin Same for Shravan. When Shravan returned from London, he was still seeing Suman the woman & thus he got even. His anger, his bitterness somewhere stemmed from being hurt as Shravan as the man, who she constantly belittled & ultimately mocked in front of the entire school. But with Khosla's track, & their reconcilation, he re-discovered Suman the friend.. so the woman took a backseat & Shravan was able to let what she did in the past slide (though its not forgotten) & 'move on'. But with Suman's 'manipulation' in Friday's episode, Suman the woman resurfaced for him & so did the past. It doesn't help that Suman never apologized truly for what she did & is not giving him his space.

I don't think Shravan's accusation was general, though it sounded that way. I feel he was spewing all that venom in a very general way because of the incidents he's had with woman. His mother, Suman, Chachi, Urvashi, Suman's mami & masi.. all the women he's seen around him have been double-faced. Notice the only woman he treats with genuine affection is Vandy because she's so transparent & he can see that. And even Suman because he associates his good memories with her.. but then there is the bad too, which resurfaced.

I hope I made sense.😆


The accusations sounded quite general to me! The concept of making Suman a friend at will and a woman when the need be...ammm...not quite realistic according to me. Trust me...in today's day and age only a minority of women will be willing to take wrath of this sort from men...first the revenge drama and now unrealistic levels of animosity! Yeah...Suman will hang around and try to transform him. But really...this whole process would have been quite a treat to watch had they shown Shravan not believing in marriage or relationships! This general hatred for women is off putting! And then again we will see the female lead trying to understand him and his side of the story and trying her best to transform him into something else! Yeah okay fine...apparently that's our job...to fix emotionally messed up men...who think women are jerks!

Pure duniya mein humein isse zyada productive kam milne se toh raha! I have said this before too...Suman has a lot of qualities...and so just by being with Suman...Shravan should realize what women can be like! If they go this route...instead of showing Suman's efforts in changing Shravan...I would be very glad. The man needs to realize by himself how wrong his ideologies are!
Edited by puba - 9 years ago
TheTVAficionado thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#40
Samridhi!
OMG. You're so good with words.

So, I started the show without any background of promos, etc. And at first glance, it seemed to be a story of friends, who'd drifted apart, but whose love transcended space and time.

And I think somewhere around episode 40, I saw all the promos of the show.

One promo which struck me was the one in which Shravan has a broken leg and Suman visits him and he belittles her with his 'mard ko dard nahi hota' rant.

And that's when I wondered that well, that's not the Shravan the show has sold to us. This is like a completely different person.

The MCP traits that the promo showed weren't really predominant. Perhaps masked by his charm and wit. But they definitely weren't in your face.

So, I like that the show didn't forget this part and is exploring Shravan and his distrust of women.

While watching the episode today, all I could think was if Shravan thinks that way of all women, where the hell does that leave Shravan and Suman? Because no way in hell, will I want to Sumo to compromise on anything for Shravan. All I wanted to know in that moment is if Shravan thought the same of Suman.

She is definitely the polar opposite of his expectation of a partner. She expects equality and he, a follower, a doormat even.

And I have faith that this show is not going to wuss out and make Sumo a caricature of her present self.

So, yes. As you said, I too am looking forward to see how the show takes us through Shravan overcoming his prejudice.

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