US attitude With Indians - Page 5

The following is addressed to raj5000.

Mate,the very FACT that Indian Americans constitute 0.8% of the population of USA says alot...The truth is that,Indians are extremely successful and prosperous....

I'm reproducing your questions below,and putting forth my take on those questions.

Why it is assumed an Indian can work 16 hours and not an American?

Why hard wok is expected out of Indian and not American?

Why Indian are third graded to do all dirty work as compared to an Ameican?

Why is it that an American firm hires an Indian in the first place?What is so extraordinary about an Indian immigrant??...Are all Indians truly superior to the average American???

I'm afraid not.Jobs are outsourced to Indians to enable cost-reduction.If an Indian demands the same wages as an American,doesn't it defeat every basic logic and purpose...The economy of the United States of America is a capatalist one,every action is directed towards making the greatest possible profits for successful organizations,Indians are efficient,hard-working and economical to hire,which explains why there is the basic demand for Indian workers and entrepreneurs...We shouldn't forget,that Indians immigrated to the US looking for jobs,US is not our native country..Desis CHOSE to immigrate,CHOSE to live in the United States than in India in exchange for a better standard of living,healthier and cleaner surroundings and atmosphere,nothing was forced upon us....This doesn't mean that Indians should be treated with any less respect,every human being is entitled to a certain amount of respect and esteem,but one shouldn't take a mile when given an inch..I'm not saying that an Indian should be treated like a minion,self-respect shouldn't be traded for anything,dignity shouldn't be sacrificed at the altar of money,but at the same time,we shouldn't expect any preferential treatment or any excess credit...Quoting Ayn Rand, "Men of all races,came from culturally indistinguished countries and accomplished feats of productive ability which would have remained stillborn in their control-ridden native lands." Admittedly,the process has been mutually beneficial,but yet it cannot be refuted that USA has been very graceful,she has been enormously welcoming and appreciative,truly a Shangri-La. We can't ask for more.I'm simply presenting the other side of the coin.

Other then talking what does an average Ameican capable of?

This was PRECISELY the kind of attitude that I find condemnatory😆...Not every American is a wastrel,not every American is on the scrounge.Personally,I feel the average American isnt as doltish as we make him out to be,they aren't really that incompetent...Only that Indians are better and cheaper.Which explains why Indians find jobs.Some Americans made the mistake of condescending upon Indians,this supercilious attitude cost them dearly,as Indians bagged jobs right under their noses...Let us not make the mistake of accrediting the Americans less intelligence and respect than they truly possess and deserve respectively!!

Americans(whites) look downwardly for us, why?

Lesser wages,I'm afraid one can't gripe about,one signs up for that much when one takes up a job...Lack of basic respect is generally a case of sour grapes,a general escapist tendency,and an inevitable consequence ---a defence mechanism to shroud one's own bewilderment and to alleviate the subconscious terror...To give own's own ego and sense of self-importance a boost,some stoop so abysmally low that they run someone down on grounds of race/colour etcetera...Racism, in any form or manifestation, is despicable,rascist bas***ds are pathetic losers who choose to judge a person on grounds of ancestry and lineage than on grounds of individual characteristics and prowess.....If a Caucasian looks down upon one's work ONLY because one is an Asian,then he/she can be tagged a racist,and no excuse,I repeat,NO EXCUSE can be made for people of that ilk.

No place is perfect,no system is irreproachable, not every person is amicable!!...Life is(n't) just a bowl of cherries,whether one lives in India or the United States or in the United Kingdom or in Australia or in Canada or in any part of the world,one has to adjust...

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

we rarely get into the drivers seat and run the show. Americans have that drive much more than we do, they may not be as intellectual or hardworking but they have social savvy and flair. Our culture is such that we do not have that dominant drive. From childhood we were trained to follow elders and those more experienced, American culture is more of a go getter culture which pushes people to independent achievement right from the start.
It will always be that dividing factor between us and them in a professional setting until we get that drive too, but I personally do not think it is worth it.

Hear, hear!.👏 👏 👏..I vividly remember one incident which I'd like to cite...When I did my scholing in India,there was a seminar conducted.there was an activity,we were given a sheet of 25-30 questions,and one had to choose one of the four alternatives...When the answers were analysed,only 8 out of 130 odd students were pronounced having leadership traits,the rest all fell into the "follower" mould...Till the age of 21-22,the parents support the kids,a child is always under the impression that the parent would sort out every problem,in other words,one is always too dependant on someone or the other,either the parent,or the teacher,or the boss,or the spouse...Indians generally NEVER take risks,be it in cricket or professional fields...Non-conformism is repudiated,zilch freedom to pursue one's whimsical fancies,creativity is eschewed..People content themselves with run of the mill jobs and average wages,they invariably play it safe....People generally choose to stroll leisurely on the sand in a beach,rather than explore the turbulent waters....A secure protected risk free life as against an adventurous,eventful and slightly temarious one.....

Originally posted by: Maya_M

I live in a predominantly caucasian community. I have been in US for quite some time and have never experienced any such behaviour or attitude ever.

My view on this in general (not directed towards the poster or anyone) is probably as a result of inferiority complex or never trying to adapt to the surroundings.

Now I am not denying any racial discrimination. But it is same everywhere. Not a speciality of US.

Good for you!

Inferiority complex (no offense meant) has been a problem but with time the negative side of understood by at least some sections, isn't it time to also look at the other side of superiority complex (no offense meant) of some sections that needs to be pointed out.

Our thoughts are driven with what one reads or hears or experiences, it's not rightly justifiable to negate what's going on generically in different profession/walks of life; we need to have an eagle eye. That said, I agree this issue raised here is not solely on America or India its global problem, but there has to be start with the best acquaintances of references and example.

Originally posted by: Believe

Well said👏

Thanks all to acknowledge the points, Believe, RTH, Joe...

Originally posted by: Believe

You can find many who have similar views like mine if you broaden your thinking. --ok i love to give n take free adivice (jo use nahe kartha give others thats my policy)..thanx let me say one thing , you people getting angry so fastly if someone talk against your views....ye ek successful women ko shooba nahe dheeta...😉😃 this is debate na fight with my views no probs bt dont be serious.....ok👍🏼

My view is if anyone struggling to get success that people feel these things(i mean raj's points)..if someone already success...sometime they not feel racism or other things.

When racism exists everywhere then why blame US alone was my point.😛--This thread is realted to US thats why maya...😊

It is sad to see we reach to this level of conversation and most generically posted points should not to be taken personally, until unless confronted, to understand the real intend of poster. Yes there are definitely differences in opinions and can be handled in more amicable fashion, am learning and trying, hope the same for esteemed members of the forum, will benefit all.

Pls PM me, if there is any misunderstanding.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Some excellent questions. I will answer to the best of my abilities.

I have found two kinds of discrimination in the United States.

One is racism, an outright malicious discrimination where they feel they are superior to others for color of skin. These are the people who feel that immigrants are there only to menially serve them. There is no logic or justification for it and it is completely wrong. Such attitude needs to be weeded out.

The second kind is pure ignorant discrimination. Some really nice folks but plain ignorant. They have been brainwashed that immigrants are stealing their jobs, taking their money abroad, destroying the future of their children etc. A lot of these people will express great bias against Indians, Mexicans etc. However, when you meet them they are not malicious. They are not sure how to treat you whether to like you or dislike you. A big mistake many people make is assuming this uncertainty, insecurity and bias factor as racism. But if you give these people a chance they will respect you and start learning to respect other Indians.

As for hard work expectations it is always not to be taken in negative connotation. A professor for one of my class said, he loved having Indian students because they were so hardworking and willing to learn. It made him gain a sense of achievement and contentment as a teacher to see someone with diligence. A manager at one of my workplaces let it slip that even though there is EEO she tended to be partial towards Chinese and Indian workers because they are so reliable.

One of the reasons why some Americans tend to look down on us in professional job related setting is because while we as Indians are intelligent, hardworking and get some damn good paying jobs we rarely get into the drivers seat and run the show. Americans have that drive much more than we do, they may not be as intellectual or hardworking but they have social savvy and flair. Our culture is such that we do not have that dominant drive. From childhood we were trained to follow elders and those more experienced, American culture is more of a go getter culture which pushes people to independent achievement right from the start.
It will always be that dividing factor between us and them in a professional setting until we get that drive too, but I personally do not think it is worth it.

"The second kind is pure ignorant discrimination. Some really nice folks but plain ignorant. They have been brainwashed that immigrants are stealing their jobs, taking their money abroad, destroying the future of their children etc. A lot of these people will express great bias against Indians, Mexicans etc. However, when you meet them they are not malicious. They are not sure how to treat you whether to like you or dislike you. A big mistake many people make is assuming this uncertainty, insecurity and bias factor as racism. But if you give these people a chance they will respect you and start learning to respect other Indians. "

Can I agree more, great POV's👏

Originally posted by: joie de vivre

The following is addressed to raj5000.

Mate,the very FACT that Indian Americans constitute 0.8% of the population of USA says alot...The truth is that,Indians are extremely successful and prosperous....

I'm reproducing your questions below,and putting forth my take on those questions.

Why it is assumed an Indian can work 16 hours and not an American?

Why hard wok is expected out of Indian and not American?

Why Indian are third graded to do all dirty work as compared to an Ameican?

Why is it that an American firm hires an Indian in the first place?What is so extraordinary about an Indian immigrant??...Are all Indians truly superior to the average American???

I'm afraid not.Jobs are outsourced to Indians to enable cost-reduction.If an Indian demands the same wages as an American,doesn't it defeat every basic logic and purpose...The economy of the United States of America is a capatalist one,every action is directed towards making the greatest possible profits for successful organizations,Indians are efficient,hard-working and economical to hire,which explains why there is the basic demand for Indian workers and entrepreneurs...We shouldn't forget,that Indians immigrated to the US looking for jobs,US is not our native country..Desis CHOSE to immigrate,CHOSE to live in the United States than in India in exchange for a better standard of living,healthier and cleaner surroundings and atmosphere,nothing was forced upon us....This doesn't mean that Indians should be treated with any less respect,every human being is entitled to a certain amount of respect and esteem,but one shouldn't take a mile when given an inch..I'm not saying that an Indian should be treated like a minion,self-respect shouldn't be traded for anything,dignity shouldn't be sacrificed at the altar of money,but at the same time,we shouldn't expect any preferential treatment or any excess credit...Quoting Ayn Rand, "Men of all races,came from culturally indistinguished countries and accomplished feats of productive ability which would have remained stillborn in their control-ridden native lands." Admittedly,the process has been mutually beneficial,but yet it cannot be refuted that USA has been very graceful,she has been enormously welcoming and appreciative,truly a Shangri-La. We can't ask for more.I'm simply presenting the other side of the coin.

Other then talking what does an average Ameican capable of?

This was PRECISELY the kind of attitude that I find condemnatory😆...Not every American is a wastrel,not every American is on the scrounge.Personally,I feel the average American isnt as doltish as we make him out to be,they aren't really that incompetent...Only that Indians are better and cheaper.Which explains why Indians find jobs.Some Americans made the mistake of condescending upon Indians,this supercilious attitude cost them dearly,as Indians bagged jobs right under their noses...Let us not make the mistake of accrediting the Americans less intelligence and respect than they truly possess and deserve respectively!!

Americans(whites) look downwardly for us, why?

Lesser wages,I'm afraid one can't gripe about,one signs up for that much when one takes up a job...Lack of basic respect is generally a case of sour grapes,a general escapist tendency,and an inevitable consequence ---a defence mechanism to shroud one's own bewilderment and to alleviate the subconscious terror...To give own's own ego and sense of self-importance a boost,some stoop so abysmally low that they run someone down on grounds of race/colour etcetera...Racism, in any form or manifestation, is despicable,rascist bas***ds are pathetic losers who choose to judge a person on grounds of ancestry and lineage than on grounds of individual characteristics and prowess.....If a Caucasian looks down upon one's work ONLY because one is an Asian,then he/she can be tagged a racist,and no excuse,I repeat,NO EXCUSE can be made for people of that ilk.

No place is perfect,no system is irreproachable, not every person is amicable!!...Life is(n't) just a bowl of cherries,whether one lives in India or the United States or in the United Kingdom or in Australia or in Canada or in any part of the world,one has to adjust...

First of all thanks for response, love the points made here.

Its high time, if this was said 3 years ago would have not agreed less, but time has changed even Indians/Asian are competitive with leadership skills that was thing of west.

Yeah hardwok of Indians can be justified with the financial/living standards etc but with

1. Rupee being strong.
2. Ample of oppurtunities back home with good wages.
3. Infact Americans opting fo Indian schools and companies.
4. India making great progress in all sectors .

Unable to understand the point.

Basically US claims to be EOE, no racism etc etc, but its prety evident in some sectors of work culture. American are great in leadership, is thing of past , Asian apart from skills you mentioned are geat learners, agreed with paralysed communication skills / vocab, still they can do wonders. obviously not accepted, not only whites anyone from any county won't like it, but high high time world economy leaders acknowledge and respect the value asians in particular Indians are bringing to them. This is not only true for adult but kids also, any school that has 60% Indians, is of high ranking. So respect and accept the facts... might be tue for some sections... but its the truth... will add more after a break... tc

Indians have different philosophy and they are going to be butt of racism somewhere little or more... some of the fairer indians who almost can go around as westerners - mostly the punjabis cant get any acceptability....so I think the racial bias against most indians in inevitable... on the contrary.. a chinese who most americans and me indian dont understand when they talk english... are better accepted for their adaptibility and comingling attitude...its something to do with stereo-typing... If there are some indians who feel they are not being biased against... I think they should take a trip to New Jersey or some such place... all that cocooned misconception will wear out... 😊

Originally posted by: raj5000

First of all thanks for response, love the points made here.

Its high time, if this was said 3 years ago would have not agreed less, but time has changed even Indians/Asian are competitive with leadership skills that was thing of west.

Yeah hardwok of Indians can be justified with the financial/living standards etc but with

Rupee being strong. Ample of oppurtunities back home with good wages. Infact Americans opting fo Indian schools and companies.
1. India making great progress in all sectors .

Unable to understand the point.

Basically US claims to be EOE, no racism etc etc, but its prety evident in some sectors of work culture. American are great in leadership, is thing of past , Asian apart from skills you mentioned are geat learners, agreed with paralysed communication skills / vocab, still they can do wonders. obviously not accepted, not only whites anyone from any county won't like it, but high high time world economy leaders acknowledge and respect the value asians in particular Indians are bringing to them. This is not only true for adult but kids also, any school that has 60% Indians, is of high ranking. So respect and accept the facts... might be tue for some sections... but its the truth... will add more after a break... tc

you advertise something that no one is likely to buy otherwise... so when americans say they are not racists... they actually are... when they say they believe in fair trials... they just mean trials not fair outcome... so american double speak is well known dont go by its advertising..

On the other hand if India is seeiing growth not because we are brightest but rather we speak english and come about cheap....if we do one mistake like china did in its toy market.. we will lose that advantage and china or some other country will gain one in its place...

^Cos of racism US drop atomic bombs n Hiroshima n Nagaski , 😳 a type mentality or thought to rule ovr the rest of the worlds populations 😳

A Big brother mentality........😕