Is hinduism on the path of extinction - Page 15

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

lol. you are assuming dogmatically again just one possibility. in this case, it's losing 90% of your money last year and making 1000% this year. just one scenario. whatever happened to considering all possibilities before investing? ab risk management aur old-fashioned warren buffet style of investing bhee toh koi cheez hai, naheen? 😛and i suppose you find big-time losers who suddenly turn things around and make 1000% next year all the time, no?😆

incidentally, for my argument to work, it suffices to show that the past can affect our current financial situation. and i have shown you a very realistic example of that at work. now even if my example worked just once in a while, my argument would hold. and as it turns out, it does hold more often than your oddball powerball jackpot examples.😆

btw, koi 1000% ideas hain toh batao. so what if it's too good to be true? lucky season chal raha hai, naheen?😛 😆

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

there is a big difference bet' invention and discovery... 😉

lol. good. if it makes you happy. point was communicated me thinks.😉

btw, ancient man should have left himself to the devices of nature, no? so what if he got hot in the summer and cold in the winter. so what if the latest tides swept him over because he did not know his moon phases. at least he was relying on "it is all nature" to get him by, no?😛😆

Originally posted by: chatbuster

lol. you are assuming dogmatically again just one possibility. in this case, it's losing 90% of your money last year and making 1000% this year. just one scenario. whatever happened to considering all possibilities before investing? ab risk management aur old-fashioned warren buffet style of investing bhee toh koi cheez hai, naheen? 😛and i suppose you find big-time losers who suddenly turn things around and make 1000% next year all the time, no?😆 assumption is your inherent trait.. did I say all the time.. Arent we still in that "world" of possibilties of yours...

incidentally, for my argument to work, it suffices to show that the past can affect our current financial situation.sure read mutual fund disclaimers...financial world?😆 and i have shown you a very realistic example of that at work. now even if my example worked just once in a while, my argument would hold. and as it turns out, it does hold more often than your oddball powerball jackpot examples.😆.. no financial advisor gurantees good returns.. otherwise all of those advisors would be sun-bathing in hawaii..ullu banane key liye junta milti hai unko... 😆 so if you are some special descendent of warren buffet please let us know everyone from IF will come over...😆

btw, koi 1000% ideas hain toh batao. so what if it's too good to be true? lucky season chal raha hai, naheen?😛 😆 my dear friend in the world of "possibilities" everything is possible...😆...logical, nahi samjhe? koi baat nahi.. think it over...😊

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

dont know about you, but most people who lose 90% of their money this year wont be around the next year to even think of making 1000%. they'd probably have jumped outa the building long before😉

want another realistic example?😛 that's someone who loses 20% of his money last year and makes 20% this year. he is still down money (not up, even though his latest return was positive 20%). now 20% is the kind of volatility we have more often per annum than the wild swings you came up with. that likely scenario also proves my point.

in any case, all i had to do was show the past can impact the current state of affairs. and i have had examples showing those. did not even have to resort to those oddball powerball examples of yours, not that they do anything to refute my point😉

Originally posted by: chatbuster

dont know about you, but most people who lose 90% of their money this year wont be around the next year to even think of making 1000%. they'd probably have jumped outa the building long before😉

want another realistic example?😛 that's someone who loses 20% of his money last year and makes 20% this year. he is still down money (not up, even though his latest return was positive 20%). now 20% is the kind of volatility we have more often per annum than the wild swings you came up with. that likely scenario also proves my point.

in any case, all i had to do was show the past can impact the current state of affairs.only if enron investors knew that...😆 and i have had examples showing those. did not even have to resort to those oddball powerball examples of yours, not that they do anything to refute my point😉

😆😆 A financial advisor who loses his clients money will be reborn as................. ( can you fill in the blank)😆

man you still talking of likely, probably... etc. when I am talking about the possibility... thats where our God resides isnt it.. er I mean your God..?.😉

Originally posted by: chatbuster

now, if you are finished denying all this, maybe we can move on to topic? whether hinduism is on it's way to extinction. what say?😊
and on that topic, yes, imo it definitely is not currently experiencing any kind of great resurgence. other religions are. if we look at the trend, it is flat to down. we cant just be smug in the fact that the ideas and the philosophy are great. other great philosophies and systems flourished only to go under later. need people to sustain any philosophy. even japan has had increasing numbers who have turned christian. similar story, different in details, for china and tibet. cant even be smug about the fact that the movement from hinduism to, say, budhism is fine since it is an offshoot. religions start with minor variations, but grow up to experience strong frictions. demographics dont support continued growth of hinduism even within our country. supports islam. am not making any value judgments on that, just saying that we cant just bank on and extol our past greatness every time to exterpolate hinduism into the future...

I would really love to see views debating these points :)
It is easy to comment on why science is a limiting factor and how scientists define where to stop. It is always the RIGHT question and the correct hypothesis and in depth understanding of potential pitfalls and alternative solutions that lead to a discovery. The best of scientists never judge any question to be foolish. No question is foolish, when asked in the right manner. Since all that would be digressing, I have been silent :) , but could not help saying this much. Coming back to religion- extinction, although I myself doubt that it is an alarming situation, I have to agree to the folowing.

Originally posted by: chatbuster

i think there is another dimension to how well hinduism is carrying on and where it might be headed. requires going beyond overall numbers to a product segmentation kind of analysis. like which class or strata of society is smoking which opium. 😆 in that respect, the well-to-do educated hindus are probably fine with the status quo. if we are doing poorly it is with the poorer strata, but that's where population growth is most rapid. it's not just about ideas and philosophy, it is as much a class thing when you are trying to reach hearts and minds imo.

fwiw, i feel it's a different story with islam and christianity. the poor have more religion imo. so many of the rich arabs can be seen in the high streets of london, away from watchful bedouin eyes. the christian celebrities on the other hand toy around with buddhism, scientology etc. Now which is more important, selling product to the upper strata which might be more intellectually driven, or selling to the masses is anyone's call. just that with hinduism, our opinion makers are very smug and given to spouting philosophies more than adhering to them. like a nero fiddling while the heat is on.
of course, added to the dynamic is population growth, increasing the overall pie to be distributed in terms of number of customers. all these are product factors which will decide whether the market for a particular religion will go under, maintain share or flourish😛

In my honest opinion, this is one of the superior posts I have seen since Priya and CB's contribution to Raksha's thread about Babri masjid issue. I hope to hear a debate really analyzing the risk of Hinduism being extinct in a few decades / centuries.. I'll sit back and relax again if you don't mind 😉- qt

Originally posted by: mermaid_QT

In my honest opinion, this is one of the superior posts I have seen since Priya and CB's contribution to Raksha's thread about Babri masjid issue. I hope to hear a debate really analyzing the risk of Hinduism being extinct in a few decades / centuries.. I'll sit back and relax again if you don't mind 😉- qt

What about my superior contribution QT?😭 Just kidding I am in no mood for debating so thought of adding a PJ.😃😳

I wish Souro was here. Rahul and Souro would have had this thread run to 100 pages😆.

Originally posted by: mythili_Kiran

Some of the abstracts of cause and effect theory of Rene Descartes!!

"By 'God', I understand, a substance which is infinite, independent, supremely intelligent, supremely powerful, and which created both myself and everything else (if else there be) that exists. All these attributes are such that, the more carefully I concentrate on them, the less possible it seems that they could have originated from me alone. So, from what has been said it must be concluded that God necessarily exists."

Descartes

Clearly, the proof depends on the fact that Descartes has an idea of God which has so much objective reality that it could not have been made by him. So, we are probably going to need the list of kinds of ideas. So:

Ideas are either innate (inborn or known from one's own nature), adventitious (come from outside me) or made by me. Formal reality is characteristic of things. Some things have more formal reality than others. To exist is to be good. Greater goodness or perfection therefore implies that some things have more existence than others. Substances have a greater amount of formal reality than modes or accidents. Infinite substances have more formal reality than finite substances. Objective reality is the reality characterisic of ideas in virtue of the fact that the idea represents some realtiy. Some ideas have more objective reality than others, depending on the formal reality of the things which they represent. There is at least as much reality in an efficient cause as in its effect. (This is revealed by the natural light.) The ideas in me are like images that may well fall short of the things from which they derive but cannot contain anything greater or more perfect. (This is revealed by the natural light.) If I can be sure that the objective reality of one of my ideas is so great that it isn't in me either formally or eminently and hence that I cannot be the cause of that idea, I can infer that I am not alone in the world--that there exists something else that is the cause of the idea. I have the ideas of myself, of God, of angels, of animals, of physical objects and of other men like me. I could have composed my ideas of animals, other men and angels. (There is a brief argument on behalf of this premise.) I could have composed my ideas of physical objects without these existing. (There is an argument to show that this premise is true.) There is more reality in an infinite than in a finite substance. The more perfect serves as a standard to judge the less perfect. I use God as the standard to judge that I am imperfect. My grasp of the infinite must be prior to my grasp of the finite. The idea of God is completly clear and distinct and contains more objective reality than any other idea. But perhaps I am greater than I have assumed and so could be the cause of the idea of a being with all perfections.
1. The gradual increase in my knowledge shows that I am imperfect. (All of these things are revealed by the light of nature)

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/philosophers/descarte s-god.html

This is great ideas from a great person. I think Descartes believed in God and so these proofs...The only thing is with values changing.. we dont know what his point 4 owuld be interpreted as... whats good he is talking about... "godd" has long since changed a lot...😊..

Hinduism has lasted for thousands of years and it will continue to do so- just look at the hundreds of millions who practice it. True, it may not have missionaries and actively convert ppl, but more and more people are becoming aware of it. For example, in the temple in my area, a lot of white people come and I'm always amazed how they know so much about the religion. But, I do think Judaism and Zorastrianism face problems since they are steadily decreasing in number and in the coming decades, may cease to exist. I hope not though because these religions have so much to offer and while I may not follow them, I definetly respect them.

Originally posted by: Maya_M

What about my superior contribution QT?😭 Just kidding I am in no mood for debating so thought of adding a PJ.😃😳

I wish Souro was here. Rahul and Souro would have had this thread run to 100 pages😆.

😭 Sweety, I left both of us out since we stopped building towers 😆.. I was reading this thread for the longest time and was waiting for it to logically come back to the topic :) It beautifully did, just how I wished for it to, and the first opportunity I got, I quoted. Yes, I also thought of Soumya and wondered about what he would have contributed to the buildings. I miss him. Now in order not to just quote you to chat with you- let me say a few😛 words.

I reckon that deep-rooted caste-system is looked at as one of the potential cuprits, but I strongly believe that it is the underlying sadness, insecurity / lack of satisfaction that mainly compells many individuals to experiment with other religions. I doubt they always attain what they seek. It makes me wonder if Hinduism is at any loss due to losing such individuals to other religions.

I would like to comment on a Marathi intellectual leader, a forward thinker- Gopal Gokhale- Husband of the first Indian Doctor- Dr. Anandi Gopal Gokhale, mocked at the practice of conversion and converted himself to Christianity and then converted himself back and recited the Holy Gayatri Mantra. 😆
In dark pre-independence times when conversions were actually diminishing numbers of Marathi Brahmins (even by fraud at times by contaminating wells by meat and such), it was a great message he provided to both- the British who forced conversions and to Brahmins who made themsleves dispensable and vulnerable due to their lack of progressive thinking.
Through his actions he suggested that one is only as converted as one allows oneself to be. One can always remain who one is. But one must be happy and content to feel that way :) Conversions don't affect such people.