Documentary Nirbhaya India's Daughter - UPDATE Admins reply pg29 - Page 64

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990853 thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: LovelyPlanet

its such a shame to come from a country where some men talk like this about women🤢puke

Once upon a time in a small village, there lived a boy named Changu. Now changu had problem that his face carried one pimple, changu was smart and intelligent and he stood first in the class but he had pimple which was embarrassing to him. The news became wildfire and it spread not only in his class but globally. BBC became interested because they saw story in it which could be sold in millions. BBC comes and dissect the pimple and shows how ugly Changu's pimple look like. Soon the government comes to know someone from BBC has taken Changu's pimple video and they want to promote it globally how ugly changu look like.

Changu's half of the village protest against BBC documentary but half of them thinks pimple is global issue and we need to show how pimple monster really looks like and what he thinks of himself. After few day BBC makes million and moves on to new documentary, Government moves on to new controversy but changu's pimple hasnt gotten away infact it became worst.

Whom should we blame, whats the causes, problem and solution? I have a flight to catch but I hope someone can use this fishbone diagram and come up with solutions.


Blaming or feeling ashamed is never the answer
iMini thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
@9tanki
I get what you're trying to explain.
It would have been better if they invested a little more into showing that it's a universal issue.
I am not saying they should have deleted any part of it,rather just add more to it.In its current form it's serving no real purpose. Indians are right in feeling both good and bad about it's release,but majority of people from other nations feel like:-'Its their problem,a huge one.We're certainly better than them regarding this.'
touch_of_pink thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Here's what Freida Pinto had to say about gender inequality

March 16, 2015 aditi.chandra07

Freida Pinto attended the premiere of Leslie Udwin's documentary India's Daughter' in New York recently. The documentary is based on the brutal gangrape of a 23-year-old medical student on December 16, 2012.

Freida gave her closing remarks on gender inequality and sexual abuse post the premiere. Here are the excerpts from what she said.

"I recently visited my dear friend Zoe's beautiful six-month-old-baby girl, Orla. When I looked into her big bright eyes, I saw a raw spark of pure light ? alive, dancing to its own tune, full of potential, oblivious to skin color, status or gender.

But in more places around the world than we imagine, a newborn girl child has been damned, undervalued, called a burden, or even been killed before she was born. Because to be a female in today's world is at best an exercise in subtle injustice or at worst a living hell.

In the film India's Daughter you heard an educated lawyer claim that "in our culture there is no place for a woman." He is obviously not alone in his sentiments. But I don't want to indulge in a full cultural history of woman-hating ? suffice it to say that from the earliest written accounts, it has been so. From the Book of Leviticus which said 'menstruating women are unclean and whoever touches them will be defiled' to Aristotle who referred to a female as "an incomplete male or a deformity", from Confucius who felt that a hundred women weren't worth "one testicle" to a certain public figure who stated "boys will be boys". And that was 2013.

So today in 2015, despite the vast improvements in the last century, a complex network of ideological and cultural norms continue to make global misogyny, in my opinion, the great scourge and most pressing issue of our age.

When we watch India's Daughter and imagine Jyoti's harrowing ordeal, there is a visceral reaction; a physical body clamping that makes logical discourse very hard. I remember being in Mumbai when this happened, and I remember my private body parts cringe and recoil in horror, disgust and rage. And this reaction was not just limited to my sex. My male friends and family members pretty much experienced the same.

But make no mistake. Female subjugation is not restricted to the third world. While it's all well and good to be mortified by the state of women in India or Pakistan, it will take further introspection before the First World acknowledges the same dynamics within their own culture. And I'm not just talking sexual crimes which are a grim reality in countries like the US as was evident in the Vanderbilt University gang abuse case this year. I'm talking about something that belongs to the modern or so-called civilized world, such as the refusal to pay a woman the same as a man for the same job. And often those jobs come with a tough climate with women having to stay silent or even laugh amidst misogynistic remarks in the setting of a male boardroom. And yet to speak out is to get tainted as the "uncool" girl or the "feminist". I can't wait for this generation of women to understand that claiming to be a feminist simply means asserting that they share the same spiritual and economic value as a male.

So I ask you today to stand with me to be the new Greatest Generation that makes misogyny and violence against women and girls recede into the past. You may ask ? how?

To begin with we must take hope ? not just from the courageous women who marched on the streets of India after Jyoti died ? but from the men. We have met them at work, at home, at church, at play. I have them in my life, and I am my father's proud daughter. These men are the enlightened torch bearers. These are the men who we call to fight, to stand up for what is honourable, and to speak out vociferously against sexism at the workplace and violence at home. We equally call upon men who don't believe in equal rights. This is your fight too ? to defeat and transcend your own mindsets. We also call upon the men of the future, teenage boys, to not succumb to the pressure to shame girls at parties and online with lewd posts and videos. With you men as our allies, women have hope.

Secondly, I call upon policy makers to redefine social and economic policy to reflect the need to focus on girls' education globally so they can participate and raise the next generation of enlightened males. We need the "democracies" of the world, and specifically the democracy of India to be unafraid in facing the dark reality of sexual violence. There is no shame in admitting it exists. Shame lies in the act of NOT speaking out. A ban serves no purpose in addressing the reality of the situation. It only makes one question if we truly can boast to be a democracy that allows freedom of choice, expression and speech. We need to know what we are up against in order to deftly and strategically deal with the ongoing sickness of certain mindsets.

And to religious leaders, please consider the magnitude of your influence. You have the power to grant women honor or disrespect within all of your faiths. Please choose the path of honor.

Finally, I call upon women to make each other's welfare a priority and to refuse to shame another woman for her choices. Refuse to internalize or project the centuries of woman-hating, hard as that will be. With all of us doing these things, and educating our children to do the same, we may have the chance to finally shift the paradigm which led to the despicable and heart-rending events of this film.

We will all inevitably and quite naturally return to our lives in a minute. There is no judgment in that as it is human nature. But let's for a moment imagine being in the presence of a bright light. That light is Jyoti, which literally means "light". Jyoti, our sister, who was gang-raped and tortured to death. And all she is saying to you is, "Please don't let anyone put me out again."

CREDITS: PINKVILLA
Edited by touch_of_pink - 10 years ago
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Posted: 10 years ago
This debate is still goin on?
Ok, ans some simple questions in yes or no... if u can.

-Does rape only happens in India and nowhere else?

-Did Indian police acted fast and caught the culprits and did Indian society made headlines all over the world for their disgust for the crime?

-Do u think that 6 men represent Indian society or the millions that came out in support for the victim and family?

-Do u think every rape case is the same?

-Do think all men r rapists?

-Do u think democracy means some foreign journo breaks the rule and makes a docu and flee and call whole Indian society as sick?

-Do u think all men r safe in India and in the world... just coz they r men?

-Do u think its the problem of sexism... men vs women?

-do u blv in precautions.. better to be safe than sorry?

-Has anybody talked the guy frnd of the girl in this case and what he went thru?

---------- There r just some 12 questions.. easy to ans. yes or no.




990853 thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: iMini


It would have been better if they invested a little more into showing that it's a universal issue.

Another major issue is law student and professional lawyer are failing to do their job. It takes 3 year to execute people like kasab and about10 -15 year on average to sentence the guilty. 76% of the cases are termed as fake in rape cases or half of witness get tired after 10 -15 round of court hearing. Most of the law are either outdated and half of policemen have no idea about the law because many get the job though some recommendation/bribing. If i just compare law with any other field i feel they are lacking vision and they have no vision of improving society. Had some people not thought about changes in technology field we would have never got wifi or smartphone. With time law needs to be changed and made faster. We are still following ancient law made under british rule. This thing needs reform but the corrupt policitican ill never allow them to pass
AnuMP thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Hi there
I have never posted in the Debate Forum before. But, I do feel compelled to answer this post

-Does rape only happens in India and nowhere else? - No, it happens the world over. The percentage of women who have been raped in some of the African nations are shocking. And that is actual rape, not just unwanted sexual advances. In the West, the reporting rates are higher but having lived in both India and in the west, I can clearly tell you that in most parts of where I live now, I have an expectation of safety at any time of the day (or night) even if I am by myself. But does that mean no one should make a documentary about what happened in India?

-Did Indian police acted fast and caught the culprits and did Indian society made headlines all over the world for their disgust for the crime? Yes, it did. But the documentary was not about police action or inaction. Neither was it about delays in the judicial system. I fully agree with due process, btw, and the justice system should take and adequate length of time to deliberate before handing out sentences

-Do u think that 6 men represent Indian society or the millions that came out in support for the victim and family? I hope not. If you have time, there was an NDTV debate on this very issue which you may want to watch. They had some shocking numbers about thoughts on women's rights from school children, SCHOOL CHILDREN, in Haryana. I am happy that men came out to support their fellow human beings. And that is as it should be. But the attitudes in ex-urban areas are a lot different

-Do u think every rape case is the same? No. Nirbhaya's case shook India and the world because of the sheer brutality. I mean, when the rapist puts a hand in her and pulls out her intestine and then chucks it out the bus, I don't think you can even call it rape anymore, can you?

-Do think all men r rapists? Thankfully not. But did the documentary say that?

-Do u think democracy means some foreign journo breaks the rule and makes a docu and flee and call whole Indian society as sick? What rule did the journo break? The case is not under trial any longer. That part is done. It is in the appeals process. I don't think even the perps are claiming innocence. So, exactly what rule did the journo break? Please cite the IPC number.

-Do u think all men r safe in India and in the world... just coz they r men? No they are not. But 90% of reported rape victims are women. We should be talking about both. This is just a start. But if our society has been known to penalize female rape victims, I am not certain what male victims will face, are you?

-Do u think its the problem of sexism... men vs women? A sizeable chunk of it is due to sexism. If a person believes that all men and women are created equal (not the same), that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness (sorry, plagiarized from US constitution), then he/she would not attempt rape. Rape is at its heart a crime of power and violence, it is definitely not a crime of passion. If we believe another human being is equal to us, then we don't feel the need to overpower or violate that individual, correct? On the other hand, if we do not believe women should have the same rights, that is when we feel a need to punish a woman venturing out in the world, a woman who says the wrong thing at the wrong time, a woman who may have fired you from your job, a woman who may have rejected you and so on. So, yes, sexism plays a role

-do u blv in precautions.. better to be safe than sorry? Absolutely. But that is for the individual and the family to take. The government's job is not to tell me what I am doing wrong. It is to keep law and order. Let them do the jobs they are paid to do and allow me to pursue my path. If they did their part, I could actually be more productive as a citizen of my community (I mean that in a secular sense)

-Has anybody talked the guy frnd of the girl in this case and what he went thru? He was not quoted in the documentary which I found strange. Then I read a very strange interview of his where he seemed more miffed about the tutor being given space than anything else
Edited by AnuMP - 10 years ago
990853 thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: AnuMP



-Do u think democracy means some foreign journo breaks the rule and makes a docu and flee and call whole Indian society as sick? What rule did the journo break? The case is not under trial any longer. That part is done. It is in the appeals process. I don't think even the perps are claiming innocence. So, exactly what rule did the journo break? Please cite the IPC number.

Lislee udwin was on visa for documentary filming.

Just check this page what rule she broke.

She was under the oath

"
4. I/we also agree to show the film to a representative of the Government of India, If so required, at least two weeks before final telecasting /screening, and furnish in advance a full translation , In English , of the commentary where required. I/We further agree to work constructively with the Government of India representatives to remove deviations, if any, from the approved treatment/ Script of the film and thereby achieve a balanced and accurate exposition of the theme."



"Visa for Documentary Film Making in India by Foreign Audio Visual Agencies

Obtaining visa for the purpose of documentary film making in India is a two stage process:

a) Applying for clearance of documentary film

Documentary film makers are required to obtain approval/clearance of the Government of India for filming a documentary in India, which may take 2 to 8 weeks' time to come through. For obtaining clearance for a documentary film, the following documents are required to be submitted to the Embassy: "

983175 thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
I haven't watched the documentary yet & looks like i may have missed my chance, but from whatever little i know about the content of the documentary , it seems to be disturbingly sickening ... and when i heard about the ban , i was like , what even ?! .. running away from the truth does not change the truth - this ostrich mentality ain't gonna do any good .. as horrifying as it is , people need to sit through it & grasp the extent of the problem in order to even think of arriving at a feasible solution..

All that was good , until i saw this :-


^^ So , its the sweeping xenophobic generalizations that i see here 🤓.. or may be it seems so because the words have been taken out of context ( media always does that 😆) , so if anybody has the full context , please do post it ..😳 .. looks like now i am back to the same old , same old - context & intent discussions ... 😆

Bottom line , as an Indian , i do admit that like every other society out there , we too have our share of problems as a developing nation ( some have disturbingly severe consequences that makes our blood boil ala rape ) & we need to work on it , however , that alone is not enough to justify Udwin's dubious intentions .. at the end of the day , its all just business & i am not ok with it being at the cost of intentional unnecessary mudslinging at Indians & Indian Culture & that too after visiting jails & making national cultural spokespersons out of rapists, who by default are supposed to have a sick mentality ...

Moreover , i was not in favor of the ban on the documentary (i still am not, though i haven't watched it , i ll have a much more concrete opinion when & if i get a chance to watch it ) but the fact remains that the film maker has tainted it with her rather insightful views outside of the documentary, which in effect affects the credibility of the documentary whether you like it or not ..
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: iMini

@9tanki
I get what you're trying to explain.
It would have been better if they invested a little more into showing that it's a universal issue.
I am not saying they should have deleted any part of it,rather just add more to it.In its current form it's serving no real purpose. Indians are right in feeling both good and bad about it's release,but majority of people from other nations feel like:-'Its their problem,a huge one.We're certainly better than them regarding this.'


That's it ! It surely would have made it look more unbiased and avoided the ensuing controversy.

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