Where do you think we came from? - Page 102

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Vintage.Wine thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago


What is touch? How do you acquire the sense from touch?
Let me ask you another question, do you think a blind person dreams?


Oh! That's a pretty simple one to answer ...See the touch is felt when the femions from different bodies come into a close contact with each other. Femions which may have different spins and differently charged ...So when they interact a stimuli response is generated ..

But the story doesn't end just there ...The response engendered by the brain after decoding such signals depends on various factors ..like the then circumstances ..the mood the emotional, physical condition you are in ...<<<<< Which means the mind, conscious and subconscious too plays an important role in the same. With many more senses involved in the process ...Simply touching ain't nuff I guess...Unless you are Helen Keller re incarnated ..😆...Can you identify who touched you with your eyes closed ? That one guy who lives down the road from you who is notorious of touching women ? or someone who is your dearest ? ...😛...So although the touch might feel the same your reaction to that same action would vary depending on what your other senses fed ya with ..

In the same way you need another sense (Apart from the known ones ) to know that YOU as in Aatman shrouded inside you ..Which you currently seem to rebuff ...A soulless body ? ...Hahaha... 😆 ...Its like rejecting your own existence I guess ...But anyways with meditation and other such processes you can introduce you to yourself ...And then comes a stage where you would wanna go a step ahead and understand your true self ..as that one great soul, the energy that fills up the Universe, even yourself ..But not until you don't become ready to accept ...<<< All this might sound like magic to you ...But then even the Airplanes and the Trans Atlantic ships too did ( Sound like magic ) to the humans back in time ... ..Do ya believe in the existence of Atoms ? ..And that the light has Photons in it ? ...<<<<Tell me who on earth has ever seen those particles ? ...Who knows their true nature ..They were all surmising ..and called that volatile or uncertain ...Um ..That makes me wonder ..Do ya believe in ME ? ...Birdie ? or um ..K ? ...If you do ..tell me which of your six known senses persuaded ya of that ...Cause I too wanna use the same and believe in Myself ...😆

And for your other question ..Why don't ya just refer to http://sleepdisorders.about.com/od/doihaveasleepdisorder/a/Do-Blind-People-Dream.htm
^^^^^ This link ? ..And there are many more that discuss blind people and their dreams ...😛 ( At your soul discretion ..Cause I'm notorious for sending malware and viruses ..<< Just kidding ...😆 )

Vintu ...😛






Vintage.Wine thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: K.Universe.



We could certainly get into specifics but the bigger question that we are addressing is this: where is the seat of cognition?

You seemed to have implied that the brain is the seat of cognition and consciousness / mind arises out of that organ.

I cited unicellular organisms without a nervous system / brain but which are capable of regulating nutrient supply, processing signals, reproducing, forming colonies and so on. A lot of it what we humans too with brains do.

We want to know what is the driving force in both cases. It doesn't look like it is the brain driving these actions.



True that...And why just Unicellular systems ...Consider the Viruses too ..They are nothing but DNA / RNA structures in protein shells ...And they are darn too smart ...See how accurately they choose the correct cell outta many million that exist inside a body. ...How they engraft themselves in a astoundingly complex process inside a living organism's cell ...They replicate and they even become immune to medication ...<<<< So they too are conscious in a way ..subtle ..but yeah ...😊

Vintu...😛







Vintage.Wine thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: _Angie_

Stop the leg pulling Vintu, but there is actually a map and also a key with a password 😆
Only the bravehearts get to be in that expedition ...which in all probanlity could be one way journey
BTW I dropped the idea of hacking as it would be ...uh..improper😆


Right ...The problem with me though is that I have a key ...But I just don't know where exactly the lock is ...And I won't unless someone who knows that tells me of its whereabouts. ..Um ..You ? Will ya tell me that ...Hahaha ...😆 ..And then there is this thing called Ethical Hacking you see...which is used for noble causes ..😛..And there is nothing improper about that ...So quit thwarting my efforts to reach the lock ..Err! Moksha I meant ..😆 ..Or just tell me you don't want me to attain that state ...

Vintu ...😛
Edited by Vintage.Wine - 12 years ago
K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Vintage.Wine

True that...And why just Unicellular systems ...Consider the Viruses too ..They are nothing but DNA / RNA structures in protein shells ...And they are darn too smart ...See how accurately they choose the correct cell outta many million that exist inside a body. ...How they engraft themselves in a astoundingly complex process inside a living organism's cell ...They replicate and they even become immune to medication ...<<<< So they too are conscious in a way ..subtle ..but yeah ...😊





And viruses are exactly in the middle when considering life and non-life. They are neither life nor non-life.

It's as though all possible values are defined in the universe. True, False and Unknown. Or the Unknown is the superposition of True and False.

BTW, Vintu, it's clear that there is a connection between consciousness and life (life as in even those organisms without a brain or a central nervous system) and consciousness and semi-life (viruses) but what about consciousness and non-life? How do we establish a connection there?
K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Instead of saying "it has consciousness", the it being any entity, it's probably more appropriate to say that "consciousness has it"?

In other words, whatever exists, exists in consciousness. If consciousness is not conscious of it, it doesn't exist.

I peer into the telescope, I observe constellations and galaxies, I am conscious of the constellations and galaxies, so they exist.

What I don't observe, I am not conscious of it, hence it doesn't exist.

The word observe can be substituted with the word measure.

I read somewhere that consciousness could be the cause of the collapse of the wave function and it makes sense if you think about it.
Vintage.Wine thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: K.Universe.


Instead of saying "it has consciousness", the it being any entity, it's probably more appropriate to say that "consciousness has it"?

In other words, whatever exists, exists in consciousness. If consciousness is not conscious of it, it doesn't exist.

I peer into the telescope, I observe constellations and galaxies, I am conscious of the constellations and galaxies, so they exist.

What I don't observe, I am not conscious of it, hence it doesn't exist.

The word observe can be substituted with the word measure.

I read somewhere that consciousness could be the cause of the collapse of the wave function and it makes sense if you think about it.


K ...This argument is of utmost important and it perfectly abides by the Multi World interpretation ..And the superposed state of the Universe ...I was telling the same so far in a fragmented way. Now that you have brought up this point let me elaborate on my idea of what I believe is the entirety ..

Can an observer exist if there is nothing to observe ? ..In the superposed universe where multiple worlds including the observers therein overlap to form one common image...Even if the observers are actually many different entities at many different locales. The feeling of SELF ..causes the wave function of such observing entity to become determinate and at the same time limits what can be observed to their own frame ( Scope ) of reference. Thus making the other infinite wave functions of Universe ( where many unknown things might exist ) indeterminate and perhaps outta their scope. It's like the convex or concave glasses ...You focus on the nearer objects and the ones that are far from you get blurred...

So it's a collapse of a frame of reference as in the major part of the wave function of the universe that sneaks outta the observer's frame. And this is why when we see through a telescope, we observe the Stars, galaxies, the clusters ...that lie within our frame of reference while the other major part of the universe remains indeterminate.
Hic !

Vintu...😊





Vintage.Wine thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: K.Universe.



And viruses are exactly in the middle when considering life and non-life. They are neither life nor non-life.

It's as though all possible values are defined in the universe. True, False and Unknown. Or the Unknown is the superposition of True and False.

BTW, Vintu, it's clear that there is a connection between consciousness and life (life as in even those organisms without a brain or a central nervous system) and consciousness and semi-life (viruses) but what about consciousness and non-life? How do we establish a connection there?


In a way illustrated in the Vedic scripts K ...😆 ...Everything, all creatures and nature is ONE system...Us ( The creatures with that special feeling of self..The Ego..😆 ) , the Oceans , the Mountains, Valleys ...Stars, planets ..are ONE SYSTEM ...And why ? ..Because everything including ourselves is being observed by us .The separateness is illusive...We say we are conscious cause we can act and react ..But isn't everything made of same particles /energy ? What might differ is the molecular arrangement ..Oceans exist because we exist ..Our consciousness about that exists ..<<<So the higher the level of consciousness, the more things we get to see ..A virus particle too is conscious but in a limited sense ..It can't know of the ocean ..<<So for it oceans do not exist ...Right ? ..😆

All I wanna say is that the particles characteristics, the energies and the forces in nature that we all abide by in a magical way remain the same ...The only difference is ..Water molecules ...Air molecules ...have no feelings of Grief, Joy ..Which is connotative of the state of Moksha I guess ...The nature around us is the best example of that state ...There is no association of mundane feelings with their existence ...So that's the clue the Nature gives us ...

After all the creation started where there was only one force in nature ( Super gravity ) ..We were there in some form ..But did we have that felling of self? ..Hahaha ..No way ...😆

Vintu...😛




CuckooCutter7 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Vintage.Wine


In a way illustrated in the Vedic scripts K ...😆 ...Everything, all creatures and nature is ONE system...Us ( The creatures with that special feeling of self..The Ego..😆 ) , the Oceans , the Mountains, Valleys ...Stars, planets ..are ONE SYSTEM ...And why ? ..Because everything including ourselves is being observed by us .The separateness is illusive...We say we are conscious cause we can act and react ..But isn't everything made of same particles /energy ? What might differ is the molecular arrangement ..Oceans exist because we exist ..Our consciousness about that exists ..<<<So the higher the level of consciousness, the more things we get to see ..A virus particle too is conscious but in a limited sense ..It can't know of the ocean ..<<So for it oceans do not exist ...Right ? ..😆

...


great post V!

i think the mistake we make is in thinking that things are separate. We're already finding however that there's no clear separation between brain and its functioning on one hand and body on the other- our thoughts seemingly are happening over the entire body. Similarly, it is possible that thoughts too don't necessarily happen in one body. They are probably happening 'all over', in the entire field around 'us'. I think we probably have one consciousness expressing itself through different brains. It would explain the personal reality we individually experience and might simultaneously explain how particles far away can instantly 'interact'- spooky interactions at a distance...


_Angie_ thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Vintage.Wine


K ...This argument is of utmost important and it perfectly abides by the Multi World interpretation ..And the superposed state of the Universe ...I was telling the same so far in a fragmented way. Now that you have brought up this point let me elaborate on my idea of what I believe is the entirety ..

Can an observer exist if there is nothing to observe ? ..In the superposed universe where multiple worlds including the observers therein overlap to form one common image...Even if the observers are actually many different entities at many different locales. The feeling of SELF ..causes the wave function of such observing entity to become determinate and at the same time limits what can be observed to their own frame ( Scope ) of reference. Thus making the other infinite wave functions of Universe ( where many unknown things might exist ) indeterminate and perhaps outta their scope. It's like the convex or concave glasses ...You focus on the nearer objects and the ones that are far from you get blurred...

So it's a collapse of a frame of reference as in the major part of the wave function of the universe that sneaks outta the observer's frame. And this is why when we see through a telescope, we observe the Stars, galaxies, the clusters ...that lie within our frame of reference while the other major part of the universe remains indeterminate.

Awesome posts K and Vintu !!! The bold coud be the reason for all the myriad forms of manifestations ...a means to experience the different potentialities of ones own Self 😊 The limits of ones own frame of reference as a determinant of observaion is a nice way to put it !
_Angie_ thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Vintage.Wine


Right ...The problem with me though is that I have a key ...But I just don't know where exactly the lock is ...And I won't unless someone who knows that tells me of its whereabouts. ..Um ..You ? Will ya tell me that ...Hahaha ...😆 ..And then there is this thing called Ethical Hacking you see...which is used for noble causes ..😛..And there is nothing improper about that ...So quit thwarting my efforts to reach the lock ..Err! Moksha I meant ..😆 ..Or just tell me you don't want me to attain that state ...

Vintu ...😛

The key belongs to the lock, right ? So if the key's with you the lock's got to be with you too Tongue hmm...but its not just one lock but seven ! So the challenge is one key, seven locks with separate passwords, all seven to be kept open simultaneously Tongue if you are one good hacker you could do without the passwords I guess . So get set going...to Moksha...where else? Bon Voyage !😆

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