my short skirt says he is not rapist - Page 4

I don't think anyone denies it is better to be safe than sorry.

However, there is a major fallacy in the arguments of those who propose 'modesty' as a means to prevent rape. The argument that 'modesty' can prevent rape would hold water if there was any sort of correlation or causation between 'modesty' and 'instances of rape'. The truth is that rape has absolutely nothing to do with modesty. There is not even a remote correlation between rape and how the victim was dressed. Anyone can get raped – a modestly dressed women, a school girl in uniform, an innocent child, an elderly person and yes even men – it depends very arbitrarily on what drives a rapist and what they prey on.

Rape is actually less about 'sexual gratification' and more about things like power, control, subversion, punishment and humiliation. A rapist is not deriving their pleasure from the actual 'sexual experience' but from the power or control they exert over the victim.

A man with sociopathic ego who cannot stand rejection, will rape a woman who denies their romantic advance irrespective of whether that girl was decent or provocative. A man who has a sociopathic ego to be in charge will rape their wives, prostitutes, women they work with simply when they feel the urge to show who is in charge, the modesty of the woman is irrelevant. We wouldn't advice women to accept all romantic advances lest the man be sociopathic or succumb to a dominating male lest he rape to exert it.

This 'power trip' aspect of rape is why it is such a common occurrence in war. Clearly entire villages are not dancing in front of insurgents or invading armies showing cleavage or behaving in a titillating manner to make men lose control. It is the need for dominance and subvert others that triggers the rape in this situation. That is why sometimes you even have otherwise straight men raping and sodomizing boys and men as well.

This fixation on 'modesty' focuses on the wrong and statistically insignificant cause of rape. Instead of minimizing rape risk the fixation on 'modesty' aggravates actual instances of rape. It incorrectly infers that modesty and rape are correlated, and hence incorrectly concludes that modesty would have prevented rape. This in turn implies that the victim is partly to blame for their fate.

Rapists and sexual abusers take advantage of this incorrect but prevalent attitude in society. In order to reduce their sentencing or even get away with it altogether they try to push the blame on the victim, humiliate or bully the victim to give up or recant accusations by trashing their 'modesty'. Law enforcement also shirks their responsibilities of investigation and justice by blaming the victim and refusing to acknowledge it was a genuine crime. They can get away with this because society is fixated on 'modesty'. However, In most of the cases the victim was just accidentally in the wrong place at the wrong time or being punished/dominated over for turning down or standing up to a man and not actually provocative or immodest.

Women get aggressive for their freedom not because they want the freedom to be s**ts or prance around naked – but because genuine cases of rape have been discarded or not convicted for flimsy reasons such as a short skirt or skinny jeans.

If people are genuinely concerned about rape, then we have to stop making excuses. A rape is a rape and when it occurs the only concern should be investigating and prosecuting it to the full extent of the law. A victims modesty is irrelevant and out of the equation. Make law enforcement and society more accountable and responsible in protecting women. Send a clear message that criminals cannot get away with flimsy excuses. Emphasize self defense and empowerment of women so they can stand up for themselves and not be victimized.

'Be more modest' is just flimsy meaningless advice that does absolutely nothing to minimize and reduce the risk of rape.

"Exercising caution" is a valid point, and I don't only mean this in terms of rape scenario, or "protecting women's innocence" (the latter is mostly nothing but sexist nonsense). If you are in a nude beach, or a more liberal place where nudity is not frowned upon and the public is more civil, you can walk around naked and no one should have any issue with it (assuming no one is being harmed).
However, if you are walking in the middle of a dark, narrow alley, at midnight in a violent place where sexual harassment is rampant (even street rapes are not unheard of), isn't it more logical and sensible to "exercise caution" unless you move out to a new, better place with more safety? Yes rapists are scums of the earth, and there is not an iota of fault in the part of the rape victim, but if you can avoid such a horrendous situation from taking place, then why not go for it (though that's a temporary solution, not a permanent one - read below*).
And I say this as I have experienced hijacking, theft and other unwanted situations here. After losing my mobile in the hands of a couple of hijackers, I don't go out at night with my new expensive set unless I have a car. Now that's one form of "exercising caution" and it would be foolish of me to venture out in such an unsafe place without precautions. Sure there is no fault at my end, and yes, the hijackers are to be blamed, but unless situation of Bangladesh gets better, it is sensible of me to take as much necessary precautions as possible to avoid such crime scenes. I think that's what King Anu was trying to imply - not justify rape, or put any blame on the victim, but rather to minimize the harm, even if temporarily + explain why people use that line of argument.

But I hope people also realize that only one side exercising caution is not only unfair, but it's also not a permanent solution to the problem. Even if every other women in the world was about to be boxed within a veil, sexual harassment would still take place. So putting all women in burkhas for the purpose of stopping sexual harassment is just plain ridiculous. Statistics show sexual harassment is as much prominent in more "sexually conservative countries"as it is in more sexually liberal ones. Some reports even say that sexual harassment, STDs and unwanted pregnancies are more prominent in conservative places (again, read below*). While exercising caution is a sensible and valid step for people who are prone to become victims, that alone is not going to work. Police enforcements should be stronger, societies should be more educated, etc - now those are real, practical, fair and permanent solutions to this problem, not exercising caution from the victim's side (though the latter could work as a temporary solution to some, but only temporary).

And I'd like to point one more thing out that, even though this is only based on personal experiences, I think this theory of mine holds water. In more sexually conservative areas, where men and women are separated at birth and are not allowed to mix with each other, show more sign of sexual frustration and lack of knowledge regarding these issues, all of which can lead to serious sexual perversion and crimes.
Men are often made to believe that women are just there to bring "your" child into the world, and that is pretty much everything being woman is about. Such men hardly grow up respecting women because they see women less as separate individuals, and more as "tools" to use for procreative purposes (and how can we blame them entirely when our social awareness and upbringing system is so flawed). Women are made to believe that their bodies belong to their men and they can use it for their own gratification; their (the women's) own sexual ventures are secondary to their men's wishes.
Lack of interaction between the two genders in conservative societies also lead to people to be more sexually frustrated. You can literally see the frustrations in their face, both the men and the women. Some cultures even prohibit masturbation, and that coupled with lack of sexual encounters will only bring about more frustration in a person! Men being more boisterous mean only (or mostly) they get the chance to take perverted passes at the other gender, sometimes without even understanding its effects.

When you let boys and girls grow with each other, they understand each other more, understand each others worth, place and importance. They see themselves as equal (not identical) as human beings, and respect one another more in the process. You let them be separated, and they will forever remain aliens to each other.

Originally posted by: Dexterkichokri

The ones who don't are evolved, the ones who do are neanderthals.

But neanderthal was a separate species that had nothing to do with homosapiens, no?

Oh and Dex, you should know better by now. N Kapoor should have taught you some lessons. Avoid trolls at all costs, and not just in the Bollywood section. 😆

Nobody here has claimed any direct correlation between clothes and rape. People are just too emotional about this issue. The "modesty" seems to be a low-hanging fruit. People are putting words in other people's mouths and then shooting down those arguments with inane posts.

OK - here we go again. Rape (and other crimes, for that matter) has existed forever. Just like every other crime, there is a punishment attached to rape. Some countries do really good job at punishing the the rapists than the others. Strong punishments are great deterrents. Of course, death penalty does not stop murderer but the rate of murders go down. That is just one part of the equation.

Over the years, women have learned to be more aggressive in the time of conflict, more defiant towards the attackers and overall more cautious. Good progress.

We have to assume that rapists are going to exist unless we develop a "Minority Report" kind of technology where we can see future criminals. I would root for federally funded abortions of those males. Fantasies.

So, two things need to happen. Women need to be more and more and even more vigilant and the punishments need to be stricter to deter the psychos.
Only these two things are relevant to the discussion of rape. Other than that, it is given that rape is wrong and a raped woman is not at fault etc. etc. All that is just plain empty rhetorics.

Labib, forgive me for I err.😆 I wasn't acquainted with the trolls of this section. As for neanderthals, I like to call all devolved men neanderthals. Forget the technicality. 😆

I don't understand why women needs to be more and more cautious while the other gender can hop around freely shirtless. 😆

Sure, in the short run, make sure you are well protected, and if that means dressing more conservatively, then it's only sensible to go for that instead of facing attacks (unless you move to a more secured, safe place). Same goes for a man who faces the risk for sexual harassment, theft or anything at all.

But a serious, long term solution should be more about the "victims being careful". It SHOULD be about the actual culprit.

Originally posted by: Beyond_the_Veil

I don't understand why women needs to be more and more cautious while the other gender can hop around freely shirtless. 😆

Sure, in the short run, make sure you are well protected, and if that means dressing more conservatively, then it's only sensible to go for that instead of facing attacks (unless you move to a more secured, safe place). Same goes for a man who faces the risk for sexual harassment, theft or anything at all.

But a serious, long term solution should be more about the "victims being careful". It SHOULD be about the actual culprit.

Yes. It should be. The practicality says that for whatever reasons the perverts exist out there in all sizes and shapes - may it be child molester, a rapist, an eve-teaser or serial killer. We, as a society, have not been able to eradicate them.

Assuming that to be a trend and we are not going to get anywhere near to "perfect" world, I see those two options. You may have more.

Originally posted by: Dexterkichokri

Labib, forgive me for I err.😆 I wasn't acquainted with the trolls of this section. As for neanderthals, I like to call all devolved men neanderthals. Forget the technicality. 😆

It's okay. Familiarize with this place more or else you will fall into useless traps, and post your pearls of wisdom here more often as well. We seriously need more straight shooters here. The place is getting dull. 😆

1) Victims need to be safe from any potential harms so criminals can't take advantages from them.

2) The crime should be minimized as far as possible by a more efficient law enforcement, proper punishment for rapists, educating the public, etc.

Problem with focusing too much on option (1) is victims may not always know about the potential harm involved. Let's face it - rape is not always done by strangers in dark alleys or bars. As horrifying as this may sound, a large section of rape cases, unfortunately, involve very close relatives, friends, often spouses/partners, and even family members taking advantage of the victims. How much more can people "stay safe" from their own spouses, family members, or close friends?
And baring a few exceptional cases, most people do take as much precautions as possible, not just from rape, but all the other potential harms involved - and that did nothing to minimize rape as much as it was thought to have done. So I don't buy focusing too much on option one.

Option (2) is where the focus should be. Sure, this is not an ideal world, so rape is not going to come to an end, sadly. And neither is murder, and other violence against humanity. But the law should do as much to minimize these crimes, and ensure innocent civilians do not fall prey to predators as much. Aren't proper education (which might help the future generation to not indulge in such criminal activities), punishments (that would deter potential criminals from not committing these crimes either), etc not better alternatives than ask people to "stay safe 24X7"? Because even if you are inside your tent, there is still a chance you can be raped by someone very near to you. Yes, that's the bitter truth of the matter.