Okay I went through all the pages and before I follow-up let me make few comments
Few Comments
1) I respect the passion with which girls/ladies have presented their viewpoint.
2) I expect them to be sensitive on this issue as I can never think from their point of view and imagine what they go through. I am cognizant of this.
3) Yes I used the word cognizant to show off.
4) There is absolutely no justification for rape as it is wrong, criminal, unacceptable and in the end 100 percent blame goes to rapist - men or women.
5) I made that clear in post 1. Maybe I was not able to make my point after that.
6) I am also a little disappointed that this this topic is looking more like "girls day out" than an objective, non-emotional and factual debate. I was still expecting a balance view however it seems when it comes to women's issue there is no room for debate.
7) The girls are liking each other's posts and it seems as this is a popularity contest. No I don't care for likes (though i don't mind it lol) but yes I did feel that maybe I said something wrong lol.
8) The only bright side to this is girls like TheUltimate. I want to thank her for at least entertaining the other point of view.
9) No I am not women hater, someone who thinks male are superior or a kaans mamaa. Women are free to rule this world and let me assure you wont get a reaction from me lol.
10) Please move to follow-up and conclusion
Follow-up
a) First, lets be clear on what are we debating. This debate is not a debate on rape in general but rape in a situation in which women are dressed in a particular way (i.e. short skirt) or behave in a certain manner. The question was does some blame lie on women in this situation.
i- There is absolutely no need to involve Syrian women, familial rape, rape used as a weapon etc as raised by Miss Blue-Ice
ii- If I am debating a India versus Pakistan match then we should not be talking about state of cricket
b) Second, there are different types of blames. One can be blamed for a criminal act like rape or for negligence which can increase the risk of that criminal act. When I put some blame on women (only in this situation and not in a war) then I did not mean a girl was responsible for rape. In an ideal situation yes even if a women runs naked then she should not be raped. It does not require a rocket scientist to figure that out. When I blame a girl it was blaming them for not being careful and therefore increasing the risk. I do get that risk is there always and regardless but yet the risk can increase or decrease depending upon how one behaves.
That point is applicable in other crimes, for all genders, in all situation and during all times. Just because we used it in context of rape and for women does not make this point any less. Yes it confused some however it is nothing different from a blame that I put on myself for standing in front of the train. Here I acknowledge Miss Taco's point and prehaps my example was not a good one as with train the outcome is inevitable. However I was focussing more on my role than the role of train lol. You can replace train with me jumping in lion's cage, me being careless and leaving my house door open, me jumping in front of the gun at the end of the movie or anything. TheUltimate gave some better examples in her posts.
c) Yes we should expect civility but we should not expect that civility will be there. The former is an abstract while later is reality. That was the key line which unfortunately Miss D.K. Chokri and others did not respond to and quietly ignored.
d) Miss RTH and issue of "Real Men": My issue with real men was with the mindset and not definition. I don't think we should be creating idealistic notions as to me this is a wrong way of thinking. It tells us that real men do not rape women and un-real me do. That is black and white. It is possible that a real men that we idolize are not actually that. In context of rape I would say that a rapist is not always a bad man. It could be that he belongs to "real men" club who has lived an exemplary life but one day gets drunk or loses it and ends up raping someone. That person then falls into un-real men club after the rape. However when rape happened he was in the real men group. This is important as innocent girls might get wrong message. So lets not give anyone too much importance.
An interesting example of such a scenario is movie Kudrat. (Not Govinda one but old Raj Kumar and Rajesh Khanna starrer).
5) Miss Hindu4L presented a message and with it raised a good point about society and how we treat this issue. However that is applicable for other crimes as well and in a non-ideal world I don't think there is anything wrong in that message. We will not be able to teach everyone what they should be taught and importance of the crime is such that we cannot take any risk either. So the answer is both should be there.
Conclusion
I am satisfied with the posts I made however it is possible that people did not get my point. In certain situations a woman can be blamed for careless behavior and that blame is for increasing the risk of rape and not rape. We should not be thinking in "effect - cause" but in "cause - effect" manner. If we discuss that rape is wrong and therefore this is not debatable then yes many of you are right. However objective analysis tells as that while there might not be any cause from the victim's side there can be a certain behavior that affects the cause, in a sepcific sub-type of the crime, and should be accounted for. That will happen if we analyze it properly.
Even in a non-ideal world a message that you can run naked and still should not be raped is theoretically fine and fair however practically wrong. We should in fact tell girls to be careful as sometimes it is beyond us. No need to be sensitive about it. It does not make girl's any less. It does not reduces their rights. It does not mean they are inferior. That is what everyone does in different situation. If I have a BMW and I drive carefully and follow all rules but I go into a narrow street and a rickshaw crashes into me then what? I am not responsible but yet I should not have taken it there. Similarly in a particular situation one is advice to exercise caution. Perhaps some mind it because they think certain women are being looked down at but I at least did not make my post keeping that in mind.
A woman regardless of anything should never suffer from any discrimination - rape is altogether a different matter
Thank You.
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