Chandra Nandini 23-25: Helen 2.0 - Page 11

Originally posted by: shailusri1983

Aunty supposing this Patalgram and other areas were not under Magadh or any particular kingdom. They could be small village hamlets or principalities skirting Magadhan kingdom and nearby the Former Greek ruled areas in India. This chap, Durdhara's dad could be the Chieftain of these regions. This could also work. Moora was running for day/days together in pregnant avastha. So she could well have crossed the borders of Magadh before she was recaptured by the Magadhan soldiers.

Chandra was irritated by the love soap opera tune of his foster mother so he never visited her. But he kept visiting Durdhara who was his childhood friend occasionally whenever he had vacations at Taxilla gurukul!

Originally posted by: shailusri1983

So aunty, since you specially asked for a reason why Chandra marries Durdhara, Shailu dimag ki ghode daudarahi hai! Let me guess!

Chandra's royal birth truth is out. This bloke for all his misleading appearances, is a Naataamai type man(village pradhan) not just of one village but 14 villages in a very strategic location of Magadh. That's not all!

He is the president of a prestigious merchants's cartel in Magadh. He is actually one of the richest men in the kingdom of Magadh. He is willing to finance Chandra's war campaigns provided he marries Durdhara, wins the war and makes Durdhara a Maharani too! Moreover he too has a private army of servants and overseers working in his "huge estates". He tells he will get these men to join Chandra in the war.

Piplivan Praja on knowing that he is their King are ready to fully support and back Chandra. They have mutinied against Nand already. The Suraksha Kar is making Nand highly unpopular.

A number of other kings who did not support Chandra as they despised his low birth, i.e they thought he was a cowherd; but now they are behind him because he is Chandragupt Maurya, the son of Suryagupt Maurya, the former king of Piplivan. These kings hated Nand for his low birth, i.e for being a Naapit in the past. They did not support Chandra earlier because they thought he was a cowherd as well, which he is no longer now that his royal birth truth is out. So looking at the present situation, Chanakya and Helena advise Chandra to close in with the offer of Durdhara's father and clinch the deal with a marriage to Durdhara.

Originally posted by: shailusri1983

Ankita I typed a whole big post and it just went missing. So you will have to make do with whatever little I have time to type. Who decides the upper and lower limits of revenge? Which revenge is noble and which revenge is selfish?

I guess that revenge is revenge. There is nothing noble about one kind of revenge and base about some other kind of revenge. It is an all consuming emotion like love or hate. It does not seek or do anything by halves. It seeks perfect annihilation. I feel that you are judging things in an ancient context with modern sensibilities, niceties, code of honor, ideas of right and wrong.

Supposing we meet with an injustice, our recourse to justice is perhaps easier. We have the courts and police to go to. It was not so in those days. It was all a game of power politics. The weak would keep on getting exploited and cheated as long as they remained weak and did not protest. To make a big line of inequity shorter without rubbing it, there were times when you had to draw a bigger line of retribution beside it. I am not using the word righteousness or goodness here.

Those days you could perhaps not set a wrong right with righteousness alone. You had to get down into the slime and the swamp of badness yourself without completely drowning in it to clean or fill it up. You couldn't be very finicky about how you set right wrongs done to you in that particular period. The means to the end were not always right. The final destination was always what mattered in the period we are discussing about.

You had very few options and opportunities you could try. You had to take them. Helena took whatever opportunities came her way. The means never mattered as long as you reached your end. You call Chandra's revenge noble because he has more grounds for justification and Helena's revenge "bad or selfish" because according to you she has less grounds of justification. But the truth remains that no revenge is completely good. It razes and annihilates everything that comes in its path, both good or bad.

Moreover, Helena is not an actual instrument of war. She is just catalyzing it with her help and support. You think you would have praised or been impressed with Helena if she just kept quiet, crying in a corner for everything Malay did to her without seeking justice and suffering away like patience on a monument? She impresses by the very fact that she challenges these social stereotypes and goes beyond them unlike Nandini who never goes beyond the set patterns and conditioning with which she is brought up. She never crosses the Lakshman Rekha drawn by a patriarchal society.

To this day, there are people in the society who blame Draupadi for precipitating the Kurukshetra War. There are many who say. "So what if you were insulted. Wear a saree and stay at home! Why do you seek revenge? What wrong did all those thousands and thousands who died for the sake of this revenge do? They were entirely unconnected to any of this!"

Will you call this criticism on Draupadi right or wrong? You may call her right because she was disrobed in public so she had to be avenged in public as well. Just because Helena's body and soul were stripped in private, and her insult happened within a tent, she had to let go the insult, forgive the person who wronged her and doesn't feel even an ounce guilty about his behavior, and move on? Anyway this war was destined to happen long before, the day Shishnaag and Suryagupt were cruelly killed and Moora was imprisoned. It was ignited the day Chanakya was insulted in the Sabha by Nand and he made that Pratigya.

Regarding Nandini, I agree she rubs Chandra the wrong way. Aunty calls her Chandra's Bete-Noire, or that is how he sees her equation with him at the present. I have always called her the collateral damage in this war between Nand and Chandra. This girl has simply been caught in the crossfire and there have been occasions when Nand has fired over her shoulder while there have been yet other instances when she has been used as a shield by Chandra. But in all this firing and cross firing, this girl pretends to be clueless and ignorant. This cannot be! Which means she knows and yet pretends not to know; or she knows and has no problem with it.

I personally have no qualms with her being grey. I will accept her like that too. I only would like to see her honest with herself and know what she really is and not to pretend otherwise. If she tells, "I know my Dad is not very good. But I love him and will support him all the same as a good daughter. If somebody harms him, I will punish that person", I will actually sympathize with her and definitely support her. But I would certainly be peeved and irritated if she spouts sermons or tries to act blind, try to whitewash that awful Dad of hers at the cost of the whole world, and condemn someone else who is really not at fault and condemn him/her for something they are well-justified in doing.

If it is not any of the above it means she is plain dull, bull-headed, and mulish, one whose cranial cavity is stuffed with cotton wool and the best sound, sense and logic proofing that nothing or nobody can penetrate so easily; and will take a lot of persistent dinning in from all sides for months together before anybody cracks even a tip of the ice berg.

I know that according to the show she is supposed to turn into this. But I find this last scenario of her character sketch hardly inviting, appetizing or appealing in interest to me. Goodness does not mean priggishness and insipidity. I would rather love her as a grey character and accept her like that as well than with a mulishly good one. However I know for sure we are ultimately going to end up with the cranial cushioning mulishly good version of Nandini. If that really happens I may continue watching the show for other reasons, but Nandini would hardly figure in that list of "My Reasons for Watching CN". This is my feeling about the topic. You could differ from me; or both of us could always pleasantly agree to disagree.


PS: There is a lot in history that is controversial. It is not like we support someone because their cause is right and noble, and we don't support someone because it is just a power trip! If that is the case, I think all of us should give up on one of our greatest national icons, Ashok, CGM's grandson. He was all that Helena is now! So should we castigate him too?

Originally posted by: durgeshnandini

Saradindu babu has a different nuance altogether as he ventures through lives and narrates stories.

Absolutely, specially the way he draws a clear picture of the little details of that age... Whenever you are reading his narrative you can actually feel like walking through the street of Ancient patliputra/vidisha!... And his characterization of every single character is perfect.. Be it male or female protogonist or may be the side characters even if she/he had very few scenes in the story... still they are beautifully crafted.

Kumarsambhaver Kobi, is the finest example of his narrative diction whereas the prologue of Tungabhadrar Tire steals my heart. Never before has any one likened the flow of history with rushing sands on a river bank washed by tide. Then you have the subtly flourishing lovestory of Kalidasa, and his vision of Saraswati as a little girl by a pool of white lotus... the descriptions are so vivid 👏

Tungabhadras Tire and Kaler Mandira were absolutely charming!! His narrative is magic in one word!! I couldn't fetch out the best out of him. be it Kumarsambhaver kabi, Maru O Sangha, Rakta Sandhya or Amitabha...I made one of my friend read Tungabhadrar Tire in english version. By far this was the only english version of his novel i found... nd there was another book 'when the earth was young' which includes a few of his shorts like Vishkanya... she absolutely loved them.

Tokas' Chandra, reminds me to the likes of Chitrak Verma from Kaler Mandira, whereas the Chandra - Durdhara chemistry is very like Sadashiv and Kunku... and yes Pragoitihasik, that's another tale, but very wittily crafted.😛 When it comes to Saradindu babu, I can go on and on, till Shymala Aunty spanks me for converting her episode discussion thread into a Saradindu FanClub 😆

Wow.. Tokas as Chitrak Verma!!👏👏... I wonder who can be a perfect Ratta yashodhara opposite to him!😳

At the very first promo of Chandra Nandini.. Nandini somehow reminds me of Somdutta... Though I knew really well that its not possible for EK maiya to etch out a finest bold character like Somdutta!!..😆😆... But yeah Shweta's overall appearance reminds me of the iconic character.. I would love to see Shweta and Rajat as Somdutta and Ishanverma... (Weird i know..😆😆)

Mahnnn we have converted Aunty's eps discussion thread into our bong adda and sharadindu fan club!!..😆😆

Originally posted by: BabyHimavari

Originally posted by: durgeshnandini

Glad you liked my musings 😳

Originally posted by: BrienneOfTarth

I get your point shailaja. Maybe I am looking at it from my present pov and I should put myself in that time frame. Its just when I see helena I see so much potential yet she is wasting her time over a useless fellow like Malayketu. Its such a waste of energy. I'd rather see her move on to seducing someone worth her time like CGM. LOL. Every scene she will mention Malayketu atleast once and I feel annoyed that she has chosen such a idiot to waste her energies on. She should be ofcourse seek her revenge but the cost is so big for her!!! All this for Malayketu...ugh...the guy is not worth it. For that she has left her country her family...forsaken everything in this quest...just to avenge a heartbreak...she is so intelligent ...i just find it a total waste that she has put her future at stake for such a guy.

Nandini is blind and bullheaded. Too much love and not enough brains from childhood will make anyone that way. She says it to her mom twice now...she won't, absolutely wont listen to anything against Nand. Her loyalty and trust is just that absolute. Its a dangerous quality that usually backfires because even those we trust are erring humans so we should not put hem on a pedestal. This girl has not understood that.

Ashoka was called Chandashok because of his merciless attitude at one time. He killed alll his own brothers to get the throne.It is only after he repented for Kalinga massacre that people began to see him as a benevolent king. Anyway, I am miffed at them both for their pigheadheaded obstinacy. Ofcourse as I said before this is hoe i see them. No offence. :)

😉

Originally posted by: sashashyam

I have been looking for that stout slipper I keep for spankings, Adwitiya, but I seem to have mislaid it. So carry on for now! 😉

Seriously, when I came back after a couple of hours yesterday afternoon and found that the page count had shot up by 4, I thought for a moment my old Chipmunk gang was back! Now those were the days! It used to be such riotous, but nice fun.

Well, they are not back, but I enjoyed looking at the output of your Bong adda as well, and then again it has a lot more of literary merit! I am very pleased that my thread is providing you young people with a platform for these reminiscences and animated discussions. Have fun!

I am not posting anything today as there is not enough material. So you will have another day on this thread. Aim for 20 pages, and let me see if you get there by tomorrow afternoon!

Shyamala Aunty

@sashashyam

Auntyjiii, I finished a crucial bit of the work last night, and so my dimaag gave itself permission to chill out for a short while😆. Logged in here and read your reply. It has prompted me to type a looong reply.

Arre auntyjii, I am notorious for my nautanki here, there and everywhere😆. Don't believe me? Oh... you do😳😆. Right then. Err...let's move on...😆

Oh yes, I forgot to mention the photo in my previous reply. It is perfect😃. That was the precise moment that caught my attention😆

I'm glad you feel I might have something worthwhile to contribute regarding Helena. I have my doubts😆. But a couple of points did occur to me while I watched some scenes and then read your lovely post, though they are based on my instinctive feelings about the thought-processes of the CVs rather than an analysis of the character and her actions. First, I'll share my current thoughts on the overall depiction of the character, which are based mainly on your posts since I've only watched 3 episodes so far, quickly before my conscience hauls me away.

The writing with respect to Chandra-Helena has been good. But the tenor of the writing, including Ekta's Bharat Mata's (who shall henceforth be referred to as EBM in my posts because I cannot let that feckless mind and voice even pretend to be the real thing🤢) preposterous vishesh tippanis, is obvious and off-putting.

While I don't feel any empathy or affection for the character yet, Helena is undeniably tough. She can think coolly, act bravely, make intelligent plans, and she doesn't let emotional weakness come in the way once her mind is made. Hence, she is a good partner in war, but but but but she is unworthy of qualifying as a man's soul-mate, which is what every woman aspires to be😆. As you've mentioned, if these same qualities had been depicted in a man in any show, he would have been deemed an alpha male, born to be drooled over😆.

The few Chandra-Helena scenes I've watched so far, even the ones that are outwardly positive, give me a feeling the CVs are going to great trouble to show that Helena's interest in Chandra is by and large tactical, with the foundation of respect and a sprinkling of affection. In the post-defeat scene, Helena encourages him and infuses fresh strength into him. And she is certainly affectionate. But they don't allow her to express genuine warmth towards him. At least, I didn't get that feeling. Don't be gussa on me, but, this time, I felt I was watching the owner of a sports team bolstering the confidence of the favourite/star player after a crushing defeat in a match. I feel the CVs don't want the audiences to forget this is a partnership of convenience, obviously in preparation for the explosion of passion that is going to occur between the titular characters and melt everyone's TV screens😆.

Chandra-Helena first night- Loved your take😆. Yes, it was a good and surprising scene in many ways. However, here again, I sensed a slightly malicious motive behind the writing😆.

Look at the scene. It is the bridal chamber...where she is supposed to be Rambha herself, seeking only to please her husband *rolling eyes a hundred times per minute*😆. But what do we see? A calm woman who is fully in control of the situation. Lying sinuously on the bed, she laughs and confidently asks her husband to come closer. Then she proceeds to unveil a battle strategy😆. Now contrast that scene to the traditional, and highly popular, idea of an Indian bride on the wedding night - a shy, afraid and breathless young woman sitting on a flower-strewn bed, shrinking coyly from the advances of her husband😆.

In the show, Chandra displays no sign that he is tempted by her looks, or (unless I'm forgetting any scenes mentioned in your posts) even seeks her company of his own volition when he is downcast. And Helena's behaviour is shown to be cold and bold - two things a woman ought not to be😲😆😆. So yes, while it was a good scene, it appeared to be an attempt to underpin the Truth that she is, after all, a firangi aurat, devoid of shame/shyness, and holds no real attraction for the Indian hero. A woman of the world' as opposed to innocent Indian beauties who merely seek to kill their husbands with spiky armours on the wedding night😆. That said, I do have a soft corner for Nandini for reasons that only have a little to do with the show😆.