My two cents on Alia Bhatt's Controversial Ad - Page 5

Originally posted by: CrimeMasterToto

That is nice to read and thanks for sharing it. I did not know most of it. I then refered to this, and you are quite right: https://penguin.co.in/understanding-the-kanyaadaan-ceremony-an-excerpt-from-vedic-wedding-book/

But one point I still find troublesome.

With this in my mind, and with this ritual and before the ceremonial water is poured,

May I offer you, who are in the form of Vishnu, my daughter

in the form of Lakshmi.

Incarnation of Goddess Lakshmi (bride) is still being offered to incarnation of Vishnu (groom), while the opposite doesn't happen. It does come down to ownership of the woman being carried over from the parents to the groom and his family.

And that is also fine, really to an extent. The real problem IMO is, some of these rituals have gotten corrupted over time - by us practicing Hindus and the preachers, to suit one gender. Kanya being interpreted as Godess Lakshmi has led to the tradition of dowry which leads to other domestic crimes against women. There is no justification for dowry, especially in well off families, but it still happens even in the biggest metros and cities and with the richest families. Aur rural areas mein toh rehne hi do. And this is despite it being illegal.

The other issue is, there is no such tradition for the groom. The Groom is being called the all powerful Vishnu reincarnation and is not offered to incarnation of Goddess Lakshmi.

There are many such issues that have crept in which stand against women empowerment. If people in power positions are bringing light to it, I do not see a problem with it.

Offered word is misinterpreted in translation. You cannot offer something which already belongs to someone else.

We cant degrade a religion because of the corrupted people. Pandit are the worse. I follow my own religion and connected with god in my own way. There is no middlemen involved. Coming to the point of Vishnu and Lakshmi there is a backstory here as well which cannot be explained in just posts. I can only direct you to path to seek the truth the rest is on your curiosity to seek that.

Originally posted by: CrimeMasterToto

Girls are doing jobs which put them in danger as well now - the tradition should extend the other way really, else it will always be frowned upon as unequal and unfair. Rightfully so

Read the entire post please!. Rituals and customs have evolved.. at least in family where couple keep karva together .. but why are we stuck up on just the fasting part there are so many facets to this festival which I have mentioned in that post. and still we end up fighting why wife only fasts. Sigh!

Originally posted by: Zeal17

Offered word is misinterpreted in translation. You cannot offer something which already belongs to someone else.

We cant degrade a religion because of the corrupted people. Pandit are the worse. I follow my own religion and connected with god in my own way. There is no middlemen involved. Coming to the point of Vishnu and Lakshmi there is a backstory here as well which cannot be explained in just posts. I can only direct you to path to seek the truth the rest is on your curiosity to seek that.

This is a bestseller and here too you say it is misinterpreted. The author is actually trying to show kanyadan in a good light, and it still comes off as not that great. Surely there is some issue here then.

You can blame the teachers and preachers all you like, but a religion will be judged based on the practices followed by the common man. You may have your own religion to follow my friend and that is all well and good. But the majority do not follow it like that and have middlemen/women to facilitate their faith.

As I mentioned in the other thread. We had a panditji come and recite Garuda purana. And it was basically saying that you need to have a son to achieve moksha and cross hell. Getting your last rites done by a distant relative who is a man, is better than getting it done by your own daughter. Things like these are wrong and need to be questioned. And now if you come and tell me that this is an issue with how that panditji interpreted the Purana, then basically we need to question how did the religious system get so corrupt that we have reached to a stage like this. You cannot keep blaming someone or the other for a problem that you are a part of.

Originally posted by: Zeal17

Read the entire post please!. Rituals and customs have evolved.. at least in family where couple keep karva together .. but why are we stuck up on just the fasting part there are so many facets to this festival which I have mentioned in that post. and still we end up fighting why wife only fasts. Sigh!

Because that is the biggest bone of contention here. The other parts of the story and not what is popular in mainstream. Every family I know where KC is celebrated, including mine, the idea is ki 'pati ki lambi umar ke liye vrat karo'. That is the essence of the festival in today's time and it is bound to be questioned during times when the fight for women's equality in all fields is raging.

My wife doesnt do it, and I am absolutely glad that she doesn't do it. Pisses off my relatives so much. I do not want her fasting for my health by making that sacrifice. That too when she is spending as many hours as me at the office. Makes no sense, regardless of what happy stories might be associated with the festival historically

And Zeal17, before you question my questioning your posts as being Hindu-phobic and pro-Islam, let me just put out this statement (even though I dont NEED to)

I think Islam is one of the most regressive religions in the world today and has failed to adapt and evolve with times. The subjugation of women that it encourages is pathetic

I just looked up and saw the ad. In my personal opinion, it was respectfully done. I didn't find it to be shunning or dissing tradition, just questioning it and modifying it. As it is wedding rituals vary so dramatically by community even within Hinduism, I see no harm in changing/updating some rituals. I don't get why people are offended.

I think questioning customs and traditions is a good thing. You don't have to stop following it or change your mind. But instead of finding anything blindly, I think it's important to learn how and why traditions came about and if it makes sense for you. I think rituals become a lot more meaningful when you know the story and context behind it. If people find sense and meaning in kanyadaan or karva chauth so be it. And it harm none, do as thou will.

Personally, for me, both kanyadaan or karva chauth don't make sense. A while back, I would have fought that everyone should reject those traditions. But I've seen so many women and families take joy and meaning in these rituals. If it fulfills people, who am I to oppose. The only time I will question it is if people cannot explain why they celebrate or what meaning it gives them.

Originally posted by: CrimeMasterToto

This is a bestseller and here too you say it is misinterpreted. The author is actually trying to show kanyadan in a good light, and it still comes off as not that great. Surely there is some issue here then.

You can blame the teachers and preachers all you like, but a religion will be judged based on the practices followed by the common man. You may have your own religion to follow my friend and that is all well and good. But the majority do not follow it like that and have middlemen/women to facilitate their faith.

As I mentioned in the other thread. We had a panditji come and recite Garuda purana. And it was basically saying that you need to have a son to achieve moksha and cross hell. Getting your last rites done by a distant relative who is a man, is better than getting it done by your own daughter. Things like these are wrong and need to be questioned. And now if you come and tell me that this is an issue with how that panditji interpreted the Purana, then basically we need to question how did the religious system get so corrupt that we have reached to a stage like this. You cannot keep blaming someone or the other for a problem that you are a part of.

It may not come out as great but it isn't an evil as projected in society today. And people are all fighting just by the word Kanya and Daan. It doesnt starts with that and doesn't ends on that.

So you are telling me that because ill practitioners we overlook the good side of religion. Ab mein kya bolu Today generation wouldn't deep dive to seek the truth., Our society is heading for wrong path.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

I just looked up and saw the ad. In my personal opinion, it was respectfully done. I didn't find it to be shunning or dissing tradition, just questioning it and modifying it. As it is wedding rituals vary so dramatically by community even within Hinduism, I see no harm in changing/updating some rituals. I don't get why people are offended.

I think questioning customs and traditions is a good thing. You don't have to stop following it or change your mind. But instead of finding anything blindly, I think it's important to learn how and why traditions came about and if it makes sense for you. I think rituals become a lot more meaningful when you know the story and context behind it. If people find sense and meaning in kanyadaan or karva chauth so be it. And it harm none, do as thou will.

Personally, for me, both kanyadaan or karva chauth don't make sense. A while back, I would have fought that everyone should reject those traditions. But I've seen so many women and families take joy and meaning in these rituals. If it fulfills people, who am I to oppose. The only time I will question it is if people cannot explain why they celebrate or what meaning it gives them.

In my experience, I have found the folks following this tradition of KC to be a lot more judgemental of the people who do not follow it, than the other way round. The aunties questioning my wife and making faces when she comes from office, while they are gathered for their rituals is just blerghhhhhh

Ofcourse my experience could be a lot different from what someone else might have experience

Originally posted by: CrimeMasterToto

Because that is the biggest bone of contention here. The other parts of the story and not what is popular in mainstream. Every family I know where KC is celebrated, including mine, the idea is ki 'pati ki lambi umar ke liye vrat karo'. That is the essence of the festival in today's time and it is bound to be questioned during times when the fight for women's equality in all fields is raging.

My wife doesn't do it, and I am absolutely glad that she doesn't do it. Pisses off my relatives so much. I do not want her fasting for my health by making that sacrifice. That too when she is spending as many hours as me at the office. Makes no sense, regardless of what happy stories might be associated with the festival historically

Bone of contention because of Half Knowledge. or Half Intent. So something which is not mainstream doesn't mean it doesn't exist. People who have that knowledge should spread it.. Fault is that Hindu religion is weakening.

Anyways I have mentioned everything about Karva or Kanyadaan enough to my ability. The rest is on you to interpret and what you want to takeaway from my post.

Thanks for commenting!

Originally posted by: Zeal17

It may not come out as great but it isn't an evil as projected in society today. And people are all fighting just by the word Kanya and Daan. It doesnt starts with that and doesn't ends on that.

So you are telling me that because ill practitioners we overlook the good side of religion. Ab mein kya bolu Today generation wouldn't deep dive to seek the truth., Our society is heading for wrong path.

I never said that

Questioning one or more aspects doesn't mean you are overlooking the good side.

And I dont think it is just today's generation. My parents and grandparents generations also do not know all the tales and stories and correct interpretations of the religion. Most of it is taken on face value. Kanya Daan has a negative connotation to it, and can be seen as the root cause from where dahej pratha started. I feel like you are just failing to see it from the common man's view, because you are happy and satisfied with the traditions that you follow.