VB : I am not anti-national but will comment on what is anti-human!

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poppy2009

@poppy2009

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#71

Originally posted by: solembaum
[@pharma3 I am not questionign audience right to reject or acept the film.. thy have every right... I am only saying that does not make VB anti national or anti army... but yes it means he believes army did commit atrocities... which is true also... and when you were happy seeing only the one side of it which glorified army in all other movies why not for once see that army could also have done wrong? when we never asked other filmmakers to also show the innocent people's side of it when t hey were making jingoistic films that touted India as being always in the right... why not allow one voice which says while terrorism is bad, we could also have been in the wrong? why so much intolerance to that view point?

Where is the intolerance? Almost every critic in the country has given a thumbs up to the film. Not one of them have mentioned that the film is biased and does not show the full picture.

A random bunch of people shouting on twitter does not mean anything.

If there was true intolerance against Haider, then the film wouldn't be doing so well at the BO. Shiv Sena or RSS would have started burning posters and breaking theatres showing Haider by now. Nothing like that has happened.

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monu_tan

@monu_tan

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#72

Originally posted by: vssaras

I am a citizen of India..therefore I have full belief that my country would work in my interests...it would safeguard me against injustice!..I would not like to be punished for a crime I have not committed..that is my basic right as a human being & an Indian!...i think the Kashmiris have the right to expect the same!..

I also agree that terrorists are a big no-no...I would want the Army to protect India against the invaders..

That's why I said its a catch-22...

You expect everything from government and army without fulfilling your duties.

A Terrorist, however guarded he is, is at home with a family too. These rats and leeches and their extremism is observed and known by their family n relatives with deafening silence. Some maybe unawre but its impossible that radicalism goes un noticed. But have u heard of any family in the world who has handed over their terrorist children to the lawmakers. Its their duty but they chose not to fulfil it and when there chidren are nabbed they talk about human rights and justice.

Heck where is the justice for the victims of terrorism?

So the bottom line is, if u dont co operate and do ur duties then dont expect not to be nabbed whilst u live among terrorists.

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642126

Hibernated

Posted: 11 years ago

#73

I am posting here again for solenbaum's points.

You are mistaken solenbaum if you think army is glorified. If any attacks happen or any infiltration happens the army is first to be blamed. There are shows like Haqeeqat and Kagaar that have shown crimes committed by army. News channels never spare army! Each crime gets reported be it harassment or rape.

Who says it is treated as some Holy cow?

Point is of balanced portrayal in an issue as debatable as Kashmir. Is that too much to comprehend?

Regarding AFSPA, it does get necessary. I am sorry but people bring it upon themselves when they turn militants or give shelter to militants. It gets hard to identify and punish terrorists hence the officials do need some freedom to take action as they deem fit. These terrorists roam freely, even do recce of famous locations, bring and hide ammunition and no one knows a thing! Is heightened vigiliance needed to tackle them or not?

Easily people call army and government sitting ducks and send them bangles to shame them after terrorist attacks but the same people protest if army is given right to act the way it deems fit.

Had the states lived normally then such acts would have been lifted! Yes army misuses it sometimes. But without the AFSPA their hands are tied. It is the classic debate raised by officials in real life and film - that criminal has no checks whereas these people who are supposed to tackle them have to remain under several limitations.

There are enough films and even music videos that showed militants in sympathetic light or even romanticised them.

So much for forever glorifying the army!

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solembaum

@solembaum

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#74

@poppy I am talking about IF... generally I am happy that people hve been mature about it... I am saying about this thread.. i am not sayign everyone is intolerant... I was trying to understand people on this thred think that it was a very bad thing to point out flaws in the army... and to tell a story that showed the army in a bad light... why is army considered infallible or unquestionable? was trying to understand that... and why is it considered a crime to say army has done bad things... they ahve done bad things in many places where AFSPA is in place... there has even been court commetning on the sexual harassment meted out by army... gets reported very less... but those stories are there... who willt alk about those stories? and why is it not important for that afce of army also to be seen and accepted and corrected so that it can improve?

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poppy2009

@poppy2009

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#75

Last word from me;

The film was well-made, but not well-intentioned.

Yes, VB has the right to take a stand against the Indian Army.

Similarly, a certain section of the audience also has the right to take a stand against the film and the director.

Yes, a film can be made from only one POV.

But there are certain topics which have to be seen in totality. Kashmir is one of them, IMO.

Is the Indian Army beyond all criticism?

No. Not at all. But if you are taking a stand against the Army and pointing out all the wrong they have done, its only fair that you also balance it out with giving reasons behind why it happened. This does not mean, that you have to necessarily glorify the Army while criticizing it.

It just means, that you have to give a valid explanation or reasoning for why it happened? As I said before, if you can give a reason for why an innocent Kashmiri turns into a terrorist, what stops you from telling the world, why the AFSPA had to be enforced in Kashmir.

Don't justify it, simply show the reasoning.

Should the film be banned or boycotted?

Certainly not.

@Franco, you were probably asleep during half the movie, which explains why you are sounding so clueless!😆

Edited by poppy2009 - 11 years ago

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Pharma3

@Pharma3

Explorer

+ 4

Posted: 11 years ago

#76

Originally posted by: solembaum
No one is stopping anyone from making a movie on Kashmiri Pundits... There is no ban on such a thing... they can make... but VB made it from this POV... and it is his prerogative and army always gets appreciation for everything... but what about the bad things they do? what about the people who suffer because of it? where will they go? are they not part of the indian state? who will protect them? What about what army does in all the reas where AFSPA is imposed? True they have a difficult life... but does that justify whatever they do to innocent people? no one is justifying terrorists.. but when state sets out to torture innocent people what will they do? they are powerless in front of the state... stop looking at this as hindu muslim and look at it as something that could happen to an innocent family suspected of doing wrong... even justice system says even if 100 criminals escape one innocent should not be punished ... but we are talking about a lot of innocents being punished many times for things they did not do... what is wrong if someone is trying to say their POV? one movie does not make it like army is only bad when there are 100 movies glorifying army... and nothing gets talked about the bad things they do! army is also made up of humans and humans have good and bad in them... so army also does good and bad... all the good things that they do would not condone the bad things also right? you should read about some of the stories that are not so complimentary about army from areas where AFSPA is imposed... absolute power corrupts absolutely and army is no exception... so it is important that even with all the good deeds the bad deeds dont go unpunished...

You have mentioned some good points but they should be followed by everybody in this world then this world will be free of terrorism. Do you question the same to terrorists who kill the innocents all the time. Heck they even kill children. why don't you advocate the same preaching to them as well . the same should be applied to everyone right. What is the mistake of small innocent children and women. I am done you can sit and argue how much ever you want. I am sorry If I have hurt anybody's feelings.

Edited by Pharma3 - 11 years ago

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solembaum

@solembaum

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#77

Originally posted by: atominis
I am posting here again for solenbaum's points.
You are mistaken solenbaum if you think army is glorified. If any attacks happen or any infiltration happens the army is first to be blamed. There are shows like Haqeeqat and Kagaar that have shown crimes committed by army. News channels never spare army! Each crime gets reported be it harassment or rape.

Who says it is treated as some Holy cow?

Point is of balanced portrayal in an issue as debatable as Kashmir. Is that too much to comprehend?

Regarding AFSPA, it does get necessary. I am sorry but people bring it upon themselves when they turn militants or give shelter to militants. It gets hard to identify and punish terrorists hence the officials do need some freedom to take action as they deem fit. These terrorists roam freely, even do recce of famous locations, bring and hide ammunition and no one knows a thing! Is heightened vigiliance needed to tackle them or not?
Easily people call army and government sitting ducks and send them bangles to shame them after terrorist attacks but the same people protest if army is given right to act the way it deems fit.

Had the states lived normally then such acts would have been lifted! Yes army misuses it sometimes. But without the AFSPA their hands are tied. It is the classic debate raised by officials in real life and film - that criminal has no checks whereas these people who are supposed to tackle them have to remain under several limitations.

There are enough films and even music videos that showed militants in sympathetic light or even romanticised them.

So much for forever glorifying the army!

ofcourse that is the difference between state and terrorrists, there are laws that state needs to follow else what differentiates them from terrorists? that is how it is supposed to be everywhere! I dont know why it should be different? show me how much mainsteam media criticises army? I have rarely read reports except on the scams... other reports are buries inside and not tom tommed... look at irom sharmila 14 years and I doubt how many people even know what prompted her to start the fast... what excuse do we ahve for army behaving that way?

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solembaum

@solembaum

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#78

Originally posted by: Pharma3

You have mentioned some good points but they should be followed by everybody in this world then this world will be free of terrorism. Do you question the same to terrorists who kill the innocents all the time. Heck they even kill children. why don't you advocate the same preaching to them as well . the same should be applied to everyone right. What is the mistake of small innocent children and women.

hello where did I say terrorist is good... If i see anyone or know anyone with such leanings I will preach to them as well... but I neither represent terrorists nor am I one... but i am an indian citizen and I would like my goverment to be morally right at all times... may not be possible... but it is something good to aim for ... so where does that make me some terrorism advocate? I think that is a little too much!! anyone who says army has done wrong things does not become either a terrorist ro a terrorist supporter!!

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solembaum

@solembaum

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#79

I believe if he was makign a factual documentary on Kashmir and if he left out the India side of it, it was wrong... but this is not a documentary and he does not claim that he represents the whole kashmir issue... a movie can only say so much in its running time and he chose to say his part of it... someone else can make a story that tells the other part of it!

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642126

Hibernated

Posted: 11 years ago

#80

I don't remember anyone in this thread saying that army is a pious entity that cannot be questioned at all!😲

Neither is there any intolerance. Everyone is giving their opinions as they have right to.

I think even on Twitter there is no intolerance. If some are trending against the film, then others are trending for it. Also the word used was "boycott" which is a personal choice and not "ban" that involves the state.

Anybody can choose whether or not to boycott a film.

Again those who think crimes or faults of army are never shown, need to open newspapers or watch TV again. More carefully. You'll know if army is forever glorified or if its chinks in armour are also shown.

There is no news of ban or screenings being stopped by protestors hence intolerance is not a valid argument here. Director gave his POV. Public gave theirs albeit highly and expectedly polarised.

Example of intolerance was what happened to Amu. It was not allowed to release even online or on DVD forget theatres or television. Haider's not suffered that fate.