Why we hate the 'mahaan' ?

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AnjanaYYZ

@AnjanaYYZ

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#31

Antara - fantastic post as usual. I always find myself deficient vis a vis Anandi. That recognition aspires me to be a better me. The same is true of Shiv...who is as Mahaan - principled and idealistic as her...though not as patient.

We should judge actions not the "characters" always, but people get sucked into what X,Y.Z. character is doing and their feelings/biases/opinions of those characters.

Edited by AnjanaYYZ - 12 years ago

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hppppp

@hppppp

Inactive

Posted: 12 years ago

#32

Originally posted by: mansimat
I like your thought.
It's in the realm of women empowerment and equality of women & men. It's slightly off the topic here, but relevant. Well what can be said, it's not easy to change an attitude & way of life that is present world wide. I can only say that I see progress. I do agree that women & men be given equal weigh age in family affairs. But I wonder if all women are ready conversely, to shoulder equally the burden of earning/sustaining the family? I see a lot of women with shallow existences around clothes, fashion, make up, getting a bachelor degree and snagging the right man.

Thanks
Mansi

I am ok with little disparity in men and women roles...but not with huge gaps that such shows and their leads stand for. about men and women equal weightage...I think it should be about the number of hours--I think a woman who is spending 8 hours in child-care is doing no less than the one who spends 8 hours working outside her /his home. Also men do not work or bring incomes for the wife's parents/brothers/sisters...why are women in such shows expected to live for everybody in the husband's family?? About women who don't want to share work-load--yes, there are some lazy women...but there are some lazy men too--whose wives would work outside home, and do the household work too...while the men wouldn't share that work. However, the point is about the "sacrifices" women are making in such shows for husband's family---why should lead women be depicted doing this ALL the time? So I will be happy...if I see some men also so "mahaaan", then probably I wouldn't mind the women being "mahaan" too---I just don't like to see the onus of being "mahaan"(in terms of putting up with in-laws trash) exclusively on one gender in Tv shows...as long as both men and women are doing it, I am happy!

Also about why I find all this un-real--is because I find the link between depicted problems, chracterization, and solutions--very, very impractical and illogical.

I don't think this show is about rural women and the problems and solutions? What solutions are the creatives suggesting to rural women's problems?? That marry the 'collector' who goes crazy about you? Or wait for your in-laws to disown their son for you?? Duhh...these are hardly "real" scenarios(if they exist they're not commonplace).

These stories seem to be cinderella kind of fairy tales that only say "good things happen to good girls!"...I am neither a fairy-tale person and there is no "hook" for me in Anandi's story, as I can't even relate to her in terms of her situations. She would have touched my heart if I saw Anandi being a woman with problematic situations--and how she is struggling to overcome those--- but the fairy-tale aspect of her story doesn't make me feel anything for her.

And yes, I don't think a lot of people do things like Anandi does. And that, according to me, doesn't stem from being judgmental towards myself or towards anyone else.My opinion towards Anandi, not similar to the people I have seen or met in my life, is just an observation. Everyone might have a different observations as per their experiences. those who have met Anandi-like women, might feel her characterization is "real"...but I think differently. And yes, like other students, I have done hundreds of hours of community service---weekly we collect and raise funds for the poor and the disabled, distributing food and donations...I am not the only one--my friends do it too...many, many school and college students do it here--its just another part of education here. But we can be nasty and bitchy too---we compete...we argue and fight about what we want...we talk back...we are not "great"...Doing community service--and showing Anandi's tolerance levels, are two different things---while I have seen too much of the former...I have seen very little of the latter...as I said everyone has different observations.

Edited by hima_123 - 12 years ago

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stuti..

@stuti..

Inactive

Posted: 12 years ago

#33

Agree to the moot point. However, slightly off topic since it was adduced here, do you think it's a logical part of the narrative for Anandi to decide and grant (now) a missed son of the family a stay with his grand mother in his grandmother's home? Or, when he was aptly purged of his delusions, was it ok to see him quickly discarded a vagabond, engrossed themselves in fine ceremonies, merriment of the occasion, even as most members of the family- besides dadi- up arriving mother, sister are forlorn or sad about him?

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441597

Suspended

Posted: 12 years ago

#34

Disagree. If subconscious jealousy was the thing at work here, then the human race would not be prey to that thing called "hero-worship". We'd all be dissing our icons then instead of being inspired by them. And its good when people manage to find criticisms for iconic people as well--blind worship of any human being does NOBODY any good.

The issue, therefore, is NOT jealousy, but cynicism. In an age where priests molest little kids, respected charity workers turn out paedophiles and people in general backstab and bitch about each other at every turn, you really expect people not to get suspicious about some thing/one that/who is too good to be true? Yeah, its unfair to the truly pure souls, but it can't be avoided either. People will be overly cautious to ANYTHING that's out-of-the-world good. Sad, but just another harsh fact of life.

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woman11

@woman11

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#35

Originally posted by: hima_123

I also feel virtue of tolerance for women is over-glorified. From a comparison point of view---I feel such shows put a huge pressure on women for keeping upto norms of holding the "family" together by showing humongous patience... I don't like shows that tell me that its the onus of women to keep their husband's parents and siblings together---if men want to live with their parents and siblings in what you call a joint family(portrayed as the "ideal family" system)...they should be the ones to set examples of extraordinary patience. So my main problem is NOT that Anandi stays silent while dadisa insults her, or burns her books...my main problem is that why can't I see a "balak" or someone...where a man is oppressed by taunts and he puts up with those ...for the sake of keeping his wife's family together !!! I would definitely uphold and applaud these ideals that time---I would religiously watch the show...shed tears for the man who is putting up with so much shit..and yet keeps doing sacrifices while making the best tasting tea for his wife's father--while the wife's father continues to put him down.

so its not that I have a problem with such ideals ...I just have a problem with some TV creative who wants me to think that "ideal" women have these x,y,z responsibilities--while the "ideal" man(if there is an ideal man) doesn't. Yes, they have shown anandi doing some community service---- but that's not the most highlighted part of her...that's just been a sidey mention...the most highlighted, and repeated part in the story has been to what extent she goes to keep her "family" (which categorically means her in-laws) happy and together. While I am all for "sacrifices"...I would be more appreciative--if a man does ALL that for his wife's/fiancee's family--. So its not about anandi..its an irritation with creatives about what they are trying to preach me about men and women roles!! Instead of loving Anandi..I want to love shiv/jagya/x/y/z while these leading/not so leading men discover their paradise in making adrak waali chaai for their brutal saasu-maa/sasur saaa!!

I am so glad you brought this up. In fact I was hoping to have a discussion on what constitutes as virtues in the first place. You are right---many serials try to impose a regressive model of ideal female identity as something virtuous and project that as the ideal woman. However, I think BV has been different from many other serials in this context.

Yes, there was a phase when Anandi was shown as someone who was unable to break away from Jagya. But I think they showed that as her weaker side and as a part of transition after ending a 16 year long relationship. If indeed they wanted to show Anandi'd love for Jagya as the undying bond between a husband and wife---the divorce would have never happened, and Anandi would have never rejected Jagya.

Similarly, I think every time Anandi has acted like a typical regressive model of a woman, it has been to emphasize the weakness of her character. Consequently, Anandi has been shown as emerging stronger from those experiences and coming out as a stronger version of herself. I mentioned this a post before---being good is not equivalent to being a silent recipient of abuse. However, when a person shows positive qualities that shows his/her amicable outlook to adversity, empathy, love, eagerness to think about others that makes him/her approach life in a more positive way---it's appreciable in both the genders.

In fact, I think Shiv has been portrayed as a character that share the same qualities as Anandi. Like Anandi he too is mature, patient, non-bellicose, understanding, eager to help others, forgiving, loving and altruistic. So I don't think there is a gender specific portrayal of virtue here, not at least in BV. Anandi and Shiv are rather mirror reflections of each other---inspiring viewers that there are alternative positive ways to handle the crises in life😛.

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Picasso9

@Picasso9

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#36

Originally posted by: woman11
shy

parri, I think there is a fundamental difference between criticizing Anandi and criticizing her acts of goodness. Goodness or virtue is not synonymous with a person. Here I am talking solely about virtue, not the character.

Let me give you an example: Anandi almost forced Shiv to marry her to fulfill her mother's wish. To me, it was an act unfair and to an extent selfish. Shiv is no way tied to Bhago's promise, nor should have Anandi forced him to agree to marriage when he was very clear that he was not ready for marriage with an unwilling Anandi. I do not support that act,and would not shy away from criticizing Anandi for this. This act is not an act of virtue.

What I am talking about here is the negativity towards her virtues or any act of goodness. If she is patient and non-bellicose--which i think is a very rare virtue, it becomes a point of mockery as "mahaanta" or "absurdity" that no real life girl would do. Similarly, her passion for social work gets mocked as her acting as Mother Teresa---which indeed is very condescending for Mother Teresa herself.; her sympathy for others get mocked as sainthood. And it's not limited to Anandi---a lot of people do get mocked and discouraged in real life too for trying to do deeds of goodness that the general crowd would not bother to think about. Dismissing the acts of virtue or ideals of goodness as something derisible---that's my focus, not the person doing them.

Coming to Sanchi, I think here again we need to assess her by her deeds rather than whether we like her or not. Till now, Sanchi has not done a single act of virtue; hence there is no question of seeing another side to her character. If she does an act of virtue, and still gets mocked for her goodness, then we can definitely speak in her defense.😛

Antara, unfortunately I am still not in agreement. I still feel that it is not COMPLETELY correct to just bring it down to a person's moral compass. It is not as simple as that. I still feel cynicism plays a role.

We mock goodness in people because we seldom see goodness rewarded or we lack thr patience to reap the rewards or we lack that trust in humanity. That does not mean that we go out and intentionally are bad. It probably just means that we don't actively seek out to be overtly good. Furthermore, our culture, history, role models make it so hard to be as good as they were. Again, we live in such a fast paced world, in different parts of the world and it's a different time. There are so many variables influencing our reactions to inherent virtues in a person. This does not necessarily mean that we are morally corrupt. So the argument that someone who does not take bribes is doubted because the doubter probably takes bribes does not necessarily ring true. The doubter may have never taken a bribe either but is probably cynical from seeing bribes taken and paid around him.

I am not saying you are wrong, all I am saying is that it is incomplete because of the variables and relativity involved. Hope I was able to convey my muddled thoughts through my ramblings. 😊

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sectoreight

@sectoreight

Inactive

Posted: 12 years ago

#37

😆😆 what a discussion.

You know, woman 11, when gauri first discovered she was pregnant, and was on bed rest in the haveli anandi made daliya for her -- based on jagya's instructions.

Also, when gauri was leaving the haveli, anandi gave gauri a book of a hundred names of Goddess Parvati so that gauri would have options when naming her baby.

I have criticized those acts because yes, it is true, *I* mere mortal that I am did not come up to par with the high moral ground that Goddess Anandi was on. But at the same time, these acts do not smack of mahaanta to me, i feel it is just plain idiocy that anandi exhibits, because in some way she still craves jagya's certificate of approval.

The way she handled sanchi was perfectly okay, because there is no need to engage with people who are insulting you. The way she handled choti maa in the past was also perfectly okay because chhoti maa is an elder.

But there are times when anandi goes over and beyond the "call of duty" (e.g. the daliya making exercise for gauri ) which are just plain unnecessary and i think that this exhibits a degree of doormatism that cannot be classifed as "goodness" or "mahanta". I wish to call a spade a spade.

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mozart66

@mozart66

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#38

Great post! Agree with you wholeheartedly!

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ankit111

@ankit111

Rocker

Posted: 12 years ago

#39

I think jealousy arise, whn the person r directly or in directly in competition, or their action make impact on each other directly or indirectly. I cant feel jealous with any Bollywood actors or Ambanies, but i can feel jealous with my colleague , fellow actors, whn people start seeing my achievement and talent on their category. Or even i can feel jealous or insecure, whn anyone tell me tht see how tht person is behaving better in tht particular situation thn u, even if its reel character.

Wht i hv seen during discussion of a serial character, generally people try to judge a character on their own mapdand. They imagine, wht they wd hv done in tht situation and whn tht character does not the same, they start criticizing it, without understanding the other factors, like upbringings, surrounding culture etc. even on the basis of some weakness, which present in any person, becoz no one is perfect, even if tht weaknesses r far less thn their strong ness, people tag tht character as doormat, mahan ( in negative sense) etc, forgetting all their pluses.

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246851

Hibernated

Posted: 12 years ago

#40

My opinion is more than often, the people who always act morally high tend to look down upon other people. Everyone has mistakes, even the most uptight right person , these people usually lack a bit of compassion and are a bit judgemental.

As for anandi, characters like her don't really exist outside television. high moral yet so compassionate and not judgemental. I have a problem with such characters or rather their creators. they tend to deify the characters . I prefer human characters rather than devi or devata type.

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Why we hate the 'mahaan' ? - Page 4

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