Anandi's journey to Shiv ,DS, jagat and BV

Nazneen

@SiriuslySujal

Dazzler

20

Posted: 13 years ago

#81

Originally posted by: lavy
Sujal..I looked it up for you. It is Babul ki duayein leti jaa. It was a decent serial. I have caught a few episodes here and there.

Ah, thanks!!! I had a feeling that was the name, but thought I might be making it up (I do that sometimes without realising it xD). I think it started off pretty nicely and then got lame, if I remember... but the concept was nice... these days there aren't many (or any) shows about friendship. And I just remember the dressing being so much simpler in those old soaps... none of this heavy jewellery and perfect saris... I think there has been a lot of regression in soaps in that respect since that time! Now if a girl wears modern clothes, she's usually either a grey character or a vamp... the only character I can think of who dresses in modern clothes and is positive is our Ashima, and hers is a bit role... there never seems to be a jeans-clad heroine! (Even if she starts off like that, at some point she gets married and everything goes downhill xD). Also, one thing that drives me absolutely CRAZY in soaps (and this is universal... not even limited to Kekta or Star Plus or anything) is when someone's dressed perfectly well (probably way better than I would dress on an average day!), and someone comes to pick them up to go out somewhere, and they're like, "Main change karke aati hoon", and I'm like, "BUT WHY!? You look fine!!!!". Women characters sleeping with all their heavy jewellery on is another pet peeve. Surely they could just be shown coming out of the bathroom having changed into their nightclothes 😕

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Lavanya

@lavy

Voyager

17

Posted: 13 years ago

#82

Yes Yes Sujal. Thats my pet peeve too.

Yday Anandi looked perfectly alright after cooking when she was asked to leave to CH and DS says kapde badal lo. WTH! Every serial should have a " kapde badalke aati hoon" dialogue. Huhhh...

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Nazneen

@SiriuslySujal

Dazzler

20

Posted: 13 years ago

#83

Originally posted by: AnjanaYYZ
Naz - I watch Malaal... found it kinda boring, but deffo progressive. Dastaan i have heard is a masterpiece, but the ending scares me from watching. Rest I may try out... I think I did try a few epis of Roag too..

On the whole, I like the density and scripting better with PAK serials... but, overall find that older PAK serials like Tanhaee, Dhoop Kinarey, etc... were better scripted and modern in thought if not dress... Zoya of DK certainly had me sold on a career in medicine🤣🤣 There was a sharpness to PAK comedy I used to enjoy... kinda like the diff btwn brit humour and Amerikan lauffs. I found PAK stuff much more classy and introspective back in the day. Not to mention my preference for urdu over hindi...

Agree with u about MJHT, DMG, etc... Indian Soaps nearly always suck at the end.

I think Malaal is a bit slow to start with. My memories of it are hazy... it's been a couple of years since it aired, I think. I really really like the actress, though. But talking of shows set in the States, take my advice and stay away from the following two shows:

1) Neeyat: interesting start, with a guy who's in love with someone else marrying a Pak-origin US citizen for a Green Card on his girlfriend's behest, but a total flop due to badly sketched-out characters with unclear motivations and no aspirations outside of their love lives, and a really stupid plotline... I never thought I'd see something that terribly-made on Pak TV, that too starring big names like Deepti from Malaal and Humayun Saeed!

2) Kuch Pyaar Ka Pagalpan: great cast (Fawad Khan, Ayesha Khan, Sanam Baloch, Mekaal Zulfiqar), and a great concept and start (highly-educated Pakistani guy who's frustrated with his life in his home country and dreams big comes to America and finds the reality to be rather different from his expectations)... and then they just completely failed at making effective use of the concept and turned it into a ghissa pitta love story and made a mockery of the characters 🤢

Just remembered another good Pak show... Qaid-E-Tanhai. It starred Faisal Qureshi, who I adore, and was pretty progressive in that it was about a woman whose husband went off to the UK to earn money and then never came home until years and years later... and how in the interim she falls out of love with him, and by the time he does come home, they're almost like strangers. It was really well-made. I have a feeling you'd like that one, Anj 😊

Ending of Dastaan is depressing, but so, so well done. I only watched the end, having never watched anything else in the serial, and... wow. I was blown away by the acting and moved almost to tears. I think definitely do watch it! And I really must try and watch Dhoop Kinarey at some stage...!

Totally agree with you about the humour thing. Indian comedy is disappointing these days... I've never really understood the Taarak Mehta Ka Oolta Chashma craze, because I don't see what's so novel or funny about it. You're right, it is similar to the difference between Brit and American humour! Good Pak comedy is more subtle... actually, subtlety is the key word here that Indian TV is lacking. They're getting better at it, but, as I think I said in one of my previous posts, they still feel the need to HAMMER THE POINTS INTO US because they worry that otherwise we'll be too dumb to get what they're trying to tell us 😛

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Nazneen

@SiriuslySujal

Dazzler

20

Posted: 13 years ago

#84

Originally posted by: sarandha
@seriusly sujal - nice posts - enjoyed reading them all - and especially agree about the point on sexuality . Though i think there was one scene in BALH which someone forwarded to me between R and P - their declaration of love and subsequent lovemaking - quite bold and surprisingly well done. But then BALH was different from ekta brands initially before they could not resist bringing back ayesha angle - saw some episodes initially - saw some episodes where though priya was the superwoman again, she had some normal characteristics - a schoolmistress like preachiness, yet a vulnerability within etc ...

Also completely agree about the point on showing normal woman - not merely self sacrificing characters as the heroines ...and yes women out of the kitchen -

this suddenly reminds me of udaan - made on kiran bedi's life - a girl realising her dream of being an IPS officer against all odds- as a result i shudder when i see diya aur baati and the unrealistic way in which sandhya is shown with the same dream amidst that hopeless setting...

though i'm quite happy to say i watch very little of all - even BV - only when i go back to my hometown with parents and kins watching, otherwise at my bachelor's pad i dont evn have a tv so watch BV online 😛

But anyways dont know about modern pak serials but some of the earlier ones were a delight and i agree witha ll anjana says about them ...have great news for u guys , here is an online link to watching many of them online fully -http://pakistanica.com/tv/writer/haseena-moin/... these include classics by haseena moin like dhoop kinarey , tanhaiyyan, ankahi, padosi ,parchaiyyan, older black and white delights like kiran kihani and shehzori

then there are some nice ones like noorul huda shah's faaslay ( beautiful one on a wife's negotiation and rejection of husband's adultery ), marvi

then anwar maqsood's lovely serious ones exploring complex love stories - sitara ur mehrunisa and talash...

gauranteed some of u would love them...

Just one more thing . I think serials like buniyaad and humlog showed how long epic serials can be created but only around generations and many interesting narratives built together ...otherwise most who try and continue beyond a point end up being a complete washout with surreal lives - this is so even in the west - look at what happened to the endless sagas in bold and beautiful and santa barbara- every single person fell for evry other person, there were innumerable twists until you stopped watching them for any story - but just for the sexuality and the eye candiness 😊... though u cant watch our soaps for that even -sexuality is missing and the set up is an eye sore with the endless sarees and mangalsutras...

khair what i meant to say just like fiction - where the epic novel, the novel and the short story or short story anthologies all have a place ...something like that is what serials should ideally be a mix of - some good epics with a strong storyline, some average duration serials and some short story anthologies...will be way more interesting to watch 😊

Thank you! 😊 Yes, I read about that scene somewhere and was interested... but as I don't have Sony and have fairly slow/erratic Internet (and that too only at my workplace and on my mobile phone), watching any long-running serials is a bit of a no-go (Pak ones are different 'cause they are finite... thanks for the link! I will surely watch Dhoop Kinarey soon 😊 And perhaps Tanhaiyaan and Ankahi too... my parents have really praised those as well! I think one of them had Asif Raza Mir as a hero, which is funny to think of, as he plays father roles now! 😃). Anyway, back to BALH... I would be interested in seeing that scene just to see to what extent it's progressive in showing husband-wife relations... it's a good thing if some degree of intimacy is becoming more acceptable on screen. I wouldn't be in favour of sex scenes dominating television screens or anything (not at all... in fact that's one of the reasons I've gone off watching movies these days), but I think it needs to be shown that married couples aren't like... forever going to be all sharmila and politically correct and standoffish with each other, especially not when alone together. If that makes sense!

I haven't watched either Buniyaad or Hum Log, sadly (showing my age here, I think... I grew up with Ekta and The Bold And The Beautiful 😆)! But I think serials can carry on for years if the makers keep quality in mind and make interesting and believable plot twists. E.g. a lot of the American ones are set in professional practices/workplaces rather than in households... which means that workers come and go and things change, so the plot can meander accordingly in a believable way... with families it's always the same people, unless they introduce long-lost children and distant relatives and the like. Just my stream of consciousness here!

Agree with you about the mix of lengths... I think that would make Indian TV a lot more diverse. E.g. on Pak TV they have some really long-running series, some average-length ones and the occasional telefilm... which is nice! 😊

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Nazneen

@SiriuslySujal

Dazzler

20

Posted: 13 years ago

#85

Originally posted by: lavy
Yes Yes Sujal. Thats my pet peeve too.

Yday Anandi looked perfectly alright after cooking when she was asked to leave to CH and DS says kapde badal lo. WTH! Every serial should have a " kapde badalke aati hoon" dialogue. Huhhh...

Yes, I was thinking of that scene when writing my post 😆 When that dialogue came up yesterday, I was like, "But she looks fine, Dadisa!" xD I mean, OK, maybe her hair was a tad out of place from running around between hot saucepans or whatever. But a bit of freshening-up would have been fine... entire outfit change was totally not required xD I guess in that context it made sliiightly more sense than in your average serial just because of the way Dadisa is... she's super-keen for Anandi's hone waala saasre to be hugely impressed with her every time they meet her for as long as Anandi's living in her house and the way she presents herself is within DS's control... but still! xD

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Nazneen

@SiriuslySujal

Dazzler

20

Posted: 13 years ago

#86

Originally posted by: rohini55
Seriusly Sujal, loved, loved, loved your post.

Can' tell you how much I've enjoyed reading and absorbing every word of your post and those of others in this thread. I happened to watch Dhoop Kinare some months ago and I was impressed by its combination of superb story telling, simplicity,humour and outstanding acting. I fell in love with Dr. Ahmar -- what an understared yet amazing performance. How I wish our Indian version hadn't butchered the plot. I mean KTLK should be taken to court for the assassination of a beautiful, poignant love story.

You know that song, Raat yun dil me teri khoyee hui yaad ayee. Jaise Viraney me chup ke se bahaar aayee. Faiz's words set to soul-lifting music. I often go to sleep with the song and the lyrics playing in my mind.

Thank you, Rohini! 😃 I must watch DK and totally avoid KTLK... mercifully, the lack of Sony TV on my cable means that the latter is not too difficult to do 😆

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Nazneen

@SiriuslySujal

Dazzler

20

Posted: 13 years ago

#87

Originally posted by: mansimat
I guess the writers need to reflect about a how a story would unfold in a time span of 4 years and then write accordingly. They can't write for the first 2 months and then latch on to Saas Bahu saga, ONCE THE TRP HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED. I feel this is a very important factor. Once a soap establishes it viewership base, the soap creatives feel they can do anything with the plot, since loyal fans have been made for them. That would run she show. Period.

Yes, this is the key issue. I think what often happens is that the filmmakers pick a concept that doesn't have the scope to run for many episodes (this is where the makers of BV were extremely clever). Or they totally forget about their original concept (SSK, DABH) in the race for TRPs. I mean, it bothers me that DABH hasn't even got onto the track of Sandhya's IAS officer dream after all these episodes... but are the makers really going to care that I (and I'm sure a lot of other people) feel that way if they are consistently #1 on the TRP charts? As you've said, they're unlikely to make any changes to their current formula for the same of quality, since to them it's clearly a winner, and if the lack of logic doesn't bother the public, they aren't going to bother themselves with it either. Bleh!

If filmmakers picked concepts that could run for many years, cast the right actors, and put effort into each individual episode (as BV generally does), then appreciation and TRPs would come of their own accord (as has happened for BV). I just wish more shows took a leaf out of BV's book.

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sarandha

@sarandha

Beginner

3

Posted: 13 years ago

#88

@ Manismat - the TRPs issue u describe is at the bottom of it . Happens partly when state withdraws and private channels take over - on one hand it opens up to more people but on the other hand in a commercial world - with cut throat competition - its all about populism , what keeps the trps going and how long can one keep it on air and still gather ad revenues etc... i think what could help here is state sponsoring some serials too - like giving teams of talented writers, directors , actors a carte blanche to execute serials of mixed lengths with strong progressives storyline- without them having to worry about TRPs - and once they garner enough audience , even if with a narrow base, some commercial private channels would follow suit and the scene might change a bit...

Or else suddenly everyone has to rise in protest against kserials and besir pair ka drama extensions for them to get the message ...but the way TRPs are conducted and as long as ad revenues remain linked to TRPs , this saga will continue ...though i have seen some change in audience taste s recently...

but really really enjoyed reading most posts on this thread ...feel like getting all abashed and bowing and patting my back and taking credit for starting it😃 , but the truth is that its simply u guys who made this so much fun so unexpectedly.

Have a confession - the last thread i started was out of pure frustation and 0 expectation - so just vented my angst even without bothering to refine my first post as a way of registering my protest. I just felt that i was so full of helpless anger against the onslaught in indian television of serial after serial portraying the most regressive female characterisations ,sometimes in deeply patriarchal and misogynist ways, that i felt if i didnt explode somewhere , i'll smash someone's tv screen one day😊😆...but after my initial explosion was really impressed with posts by people like rohini, seriuslysujal, anjana, kadoo, ela etc - because they actually made me think through more , pushed me to sharpen my arguments in their expression rather than just explode , stimulated me and gave relief to me too that many other likeminded souls could be found even in such forums...

Edited by sarandha - 13 years ago

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sarandha

@sarandha

Beginner

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Posted: 13 years ago

#89

[ QUOTE ]

Thank you! 😊 Yes, I read about that scene somewhere and was interested... but as I don't have Sony and have fairly slow/erratic Internet (and that too only at my workplace and on my mobile phone), watching any long-running serials is a bit of a no-go (Pak ones are different 'cause they are finite... thanks for the link! I will surely watch Dhoop Kinarey soon 😊 And perhaps Tanhaiyaan and Ankahi too... my parents have really praised those as well! I think one of them had Asif Raza Mir as a hero, which is funny to think of, as he plays father roles now! 😃). Anyway, back to BALH... I would be interested in seeing that scene just to see to what extent it's progressive in showing husband-wife relations... it's a good thing if some degree of intimacy is becoming more acceptable on screen. I wouldn't be in favour of sex scenes dominating television screens or anything (not at all... in fact that's one of the reasons I've gone off watching movies these days), but I think it needs to be shown that married couples aren't like... forever going to be all sharmila and politically correct and standoffish with each other, especially not when alone together. If that makes sense!

I haven't watched either Buniyaad or Hum Log, sadly (showing my age here, I think... I grew up with Ekta and The Bold And The Beautiful 😆)! But I think serials can carry on for years if the makers keep quality in mind and make interesting and believable plot twists. E.g. a lot of the American ones are set in professional practices/workplaces rather than in households... which means that workers come and go and things change, so the plot can meander accordingly in a believable way... with families it's always the same people, unless they introduce long-lost children and distant relatives and the like. Just my stream of consciousness here!

Agree with you about the mix of lengths... I think that would make Indian TV a lot more diverse. E.g. on Pak TV they have some really long-running series, some average-length ones and the occasional telefilm... which is nice! 😊

Edited by sarandha - 13 years ago

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sarandha

@sarandha

Beginner

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Posted: 13 years ago

#90

Originally posted by: sarandha

Thank you! 😊 Yes, I read about that scene somewhere and was interested... but as I don't have Sony and have fairly slow/erratic Internet (and that too only at my workplace and on my mobile phone), watching any long-running serials is a bit of a no-go (Pak ones are different 'cause they are finite... thanks for the link! I will surely watch Dhoop Kinarey soon 😊 And perhaps Tanhaiyaan and Ankahi too... my parents have really praised those as well! I think one of them had Asif Raza Mir as a hero, which is funny to think of, as he plays father roles now! 😃). Anyway, back to BALH... I would be interested in seeing that scene just to see to what extent it's progressive in showing husband-wife relations... it's a good thing if some degree of intimacy is becoming more acceptable on screen. I wouldn't be in favour of sex scenes dominating television screens or anything (not at all... in fact that's one of the reasons I've gone off watching movies these days), but I think it needs to be shown that married couples aren't like... forever going to be all sharmila and politically correct and standoffish with each other, especially not when alone together. If that makes sense!

I haven't watched either Buniyaad or Hum Log, sadly (showing my age here, I think... I grew up with Ekta and The Bold And The Beautiful 😆)! But I think serials can carry on for years if the makers keep quality in mind and make interesting and believable plot twists. E.g. a lot of the American ones are set in professional practices/workplaces rather than in households... which means that workers come and go and things change, so the plot can meander accordingly in a believable way... with families it's always the same people, unless they introduce long-lost children and distant relatives and the like. Just my stream of consciousness here!

Agree with you about the mix of lengths... I think that would make Indian TV a lot more diverse. E.g. on Pak TV they have some really long-running series, some average-length ones and the occasional telefilm... which is nice! 😊

\

Sorry the qoutes got mixed up so here is the actual post post qoute...

After that almost tongue in cheek age comment i feel like saying how much u remind me of some of the brightest young women i taught in a college a few years ago, they made all the pains of reading thru endless notes, burning the midmight lamp under a gruelling schedule all worthwhile ...though i'm not humlog gen either - was five years or so when humlog was being discussed 😊... bold and the beautiful was also part of my late school and early college days , though kekta serials came much later ...so i feel am somewhere in between - the travesty of being in this niether too young nor old lot😛, but i'm also one of the last gen's to see doordarshan and metro as staple tv fare ...so feel the loss even more ...though towards the end even early soaps like shanti, chandrakanta etc were veering in the same direction of dying plot and endlessly stretched stories under pressures of commercialisation...

thats why i feel there is an inherent problem with soaps which cannot move between different generations and diverse narratives ...i agree that moving out of kitchens to workspaces would help the plots much more ...but even those which did - like bold and beautiful or even swabhimaan and shanti on the indian scene ...petered out after a while running out of ideas, though they never grated as much as kekta serials...while buniyaad and humlog built through a cross generational narrative across multiple but strong themes, fared much better ...so a mix of different temporalities, spaces and themes is what would help epic soaps far more...

And as for "t's a good thing if some degree of intimacy is becoming more acceptable on screen. I wouldn't be in favour of sex scenes dominating television screens or anything" ... don't worry i never thought u were advocating raunch on small screen 😉... not that i would judge u for it even if u did 😃

can't resist teasing a bit here😆...but i get the point u make and its so exactly my sentiment that all i can say is ditto...thats why i thought of the BALH scene - a bit bold but very aesthetically done.. ...though i feel a kind of prudery as well as social awkwardness with one's sexuality is much more a bhadralok middle class phenomenon...if you go back a few ages the orient was pretty open about questions of female sexuality etc...even literary about it ( look at khajuraho, ajant, ellora for example...),...and outside the middle classes, for instance my maid still surprises me by her ability to say things so frankly with candour which can sometimes put me to blush given all my middle class upbringing despite my constantly fighting against it...but again i think the younger generations are becoming far more open about it - women feel less coy too ...again from experiences of my teenage early 20s college students...

Khair the point remains - what u said about serials naturalising female and male sexuality more on screen would be of great help...
sleepy now, cant resist visiting this forum once before sleeping these days 😃

Edited by sarandha - 13 years ago

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Anandi's journey to Shiv ,DS, jagat and BV - Page 9

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