having a moral compass - why does it matter?

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

I have never been a person with a strong moral compass or even an understanding of value systems per se ... much like gauri, I guess my education was limited to learning skills and not necessarily helping me be a person of values.

I've done allright in life, and not done anything that was major -- illegal or unethical. However, I attribute that to not having had any situations that placed me in positions where I really had to think about my value system ... not necessarily because I had a strong moral compass. In general, I think my personality type is also like a mechanical

I think my very first quest for better clarity about my value system came about because of all the discussions on the forum about jagat and gauri's marriage ... what was right? what was wrong? was what was legally okay always something that was morally right as well? ... etc. etc.

Truth be told, I have never had any issues with jagat dumping anandi and moving on with gauri... or gauri's decision to marry him as well... but the hairs on my head bristled when after the marriage, instead of going back to bombay ... they both landed up at the haveli walking in hand in hand indecently knowing that anandi was present there... and that is where something really violently snapped within me. And that is where I think my quest for really clarifying what was ethical (to me) and unethical regardless of the legality of matters began. (and at that time i didnt know that the J-G marriage was illegal -- they showed it on the channel only much later that trip bhairon made to the lawyer with anandi).

Today, I had a long standing friend come to visit me. He and his wife are both Indian, had an arranged marriage, then they had two children in the U.S. The marriage was never really one filled with love or anything, and over time it just deteriorated where both were living as empty shells (according to him -- I have never met his wife or heard her side of the story)... Anyway, he discussed a divorce with her, but she refused to give it because she wants the social security of his name for her children ... and part of it was sort of spite... that he cant walk out on her with two children... so he left her in the U.S. with the kids, and she is financially independent and everything ... and he came to India. This was eight years ago... and subsequently in India he found a live-in girlfriend and they have been living together and he never told her about his wife ...

and you know, he's a really nice guy, and we have been friends for a long time, but today, when he came into my home, I really felt spiritually uncomfortable.

After some time, I told him, I had to end my relationship with him because I did not feel comfortable with his adultery ... which was now going to turn into bigamy ... because he had decided to marry her. I ended our friendship.

Now this is new for me, because I have always been a non-judgmental person for the most part, never really poking my nose into other people's business and have a "live and let live" policy ... so I know that this is my new found moral compass acquired after watching balika vadhu 😆

However, from a broader perspective, I really have to question why a moral compass is required for a person ? What are the benefits that accrue when we lead our life by our values (because all I really feel right now is a sense of grief and loss that one of my best friends is gone out of my life)... I dont know if I am articulating my question properly, but hopefully, if I receive a few responses, it may help me to clarify it and articulate it a little better.

thank you in advance.

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Payal

@payalibm

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 13 years ago

@hey!you really knwos how to make my mind screeetchhh...and have soem preoper work on thinking...i serzly hate you ❤️ love 🤗

what i think is...atm when you saw your that friend and what he was doing in life that become more imporatnt then him be your friend...at that time what might have coem to your head was about both woman...

i think if he has been clear with his GF even while in leaving type arrengment...he should ahve told her clearly he been married...2 kids and he is not in love with wife...adn wanted to ahve divorce but my wife is not giving me as she needs security and all...and i cant seem to stay with her more..but i am also not going to stop loving my kids or taking their responsiblity...i am very much their father and will do as i have been doing before...taking their responsiblity...so even after knowing all this you still wants to eb with me i am all ready...and more over my wife will give me ever divorce or not is also a big sword hanging on my head forever...so...even after that are you willing to stay with me...and if he has been clear with his wife...if you want to eb my wife ohk...but be shure i will be with a woman if i get soem day whome i want to slend my rest of life then i wont back step..i wil go along that woman and will start freshlyy...till then you can have the luxryyy...and then you ahve to give me divorce but i wil give you the security and kids too...be ashured...

if your friend has been clear in this and have thought about evryone around..i dotn think you would have ended your replation with him...as then you would have known he is truthfull man..and he knows his responsiblity and understand the need of other person too...

but nothing such happened...so you jsut couldnt take it

yes..we do mistakes in our life...if we dont we are not human...but we get chance to rectify it too...whateva pighead did whateva pain he inflict..i wont talk about it..but i liked the honesty in it...the way he broke it was not good...i ditn like it..he could have informed his marrige in different way also if he wanted and had any emotions for anandi...but alas he didnt..yet what i only like it he dint lied he married gauri...he could have hidden it ...he could ahve gauri their in mumbai...and would ahve knept black about it in jaitsir..and he has good bahana as usual lots of pressure of study and work so cant come...and blah blah...but eh dint do such...same way this friend also must ahve a time or a point of time in his life where he could ahve done things maturaly and different way...btu eh dint and evry where he did was back stab...may be he is good person..no doubt..but soem time good lerson do bad things also liek soem time a bad persoan also do good soemtime...sot ahts why i think you jsut eneded friendship...

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

Thanks Payal ... but why did it start bothering me now that he was lying to his live-in girlfriend... when I have known about it for a long time ... (I have never met the girlfriend by the way, so its not loyalty to her that caused me to break it off, and i have never met his wife either)... his lack of truthfulness to the girlfriend never bothered me before. Today all of a sudden for no reason it did bother me when i saw him.

He has been honest with his wife, but she doesnt care ... she says do what you want, but i will not give up my legal position as your wife (he is not wealthy or anything, she is not eyeing his property)

I tried hard to suppress my judgment of him and just talk about other stuff, but it bothered me no end.

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madhubala.fan

@madhubala.fan

Navigator

Posted: 13 years ago

ok i am TRULY COMPELLED to reply to this one.

and before i start i want to APOLOGISE TO YOU for anything which u find against ur views or value systems.

and again since i am not so good with words i can only make an attempt to answer your question as best as i can since it is a question TRULY worth answering.

a value system IS required ... to keep this society in functional mode. however what constitues this value system is again a matter of choice, depends on a lot of cultural back grounds and set ups.

a father who says i want to sleep with my daughter is wrong due to our value systems, in animal world this is perfectly fine since their value systems are goverend by separate rationale and basic instincts. some species even devour their young which is again fine given their own set up decided by the nature but then in other set ups it is totaly unacceptable.

now again i had been to a forum where proponents of free choice were contemplating a new definition of paedophilia : it being a new sexual orientation. to me that was appaling but to them the point was it is a definite sexual preference just like homosexuality. i was deeply perturbed! needless to say a person indeed having that sexual preference woudl find it perfectly ok with HIS value systems. they were trying to pass it off as free choice! humm free choice, does anyone asks the kid what her chocie is? besides the point.

somewhere the concept of free choice has to be stemmed becuase it is desirable only to a certain extent. if left out of hand it can create terrible damage to our social structure. as i have stated in the example above ... if free choice gets applied to this particular area involving minors then it gets a destructive result. hence it HAS to be stemmed. laws can do only so much, the rest depends on the value systems being inforced by the society, family and schools. no doubt it would still happen but at least theoretically it is WRONG so at least a considerable many would know what good and bad choices are and hopefully we will have a society where children will be relatively safer.

same gets applied to adultry etc.

bottom line IMO we do need value systems , what kind and or what type may change but a society where there is NO value system is uninhabitable. ie an arbitrary unit where the only rules are uninhibited desires. i wonder if u have seen event horizon. the space ship has been to hell and back and from the video footage it can be seen that all inhibitory cerebral forces were gone and the residents had acted out on pure animal instincts ...result a gory mess. the example may be a bit extreme but is enough to showcase what we may get in the TOTAL abscence of value systems.

i totally applaud ur decision to break off from your friend. free choice does not condone adultry. free choice should go only as far as to not hurt anyone but here ... humm

recently i was in conversation with a friend from pakistan and she said : remove all inhibitions and we may get western society. sure the west has its positives but the ease with which western women change partners has resulted in an epidemic of child abuse. because the new boyfriend treats their child from former partner so bad, they often die.

side effect of free choice. i totally support eastern women when they decide to stay in marriages or opt to live alone post divorse for the sake of kids, when they put kids ahead of their self intrests. as i have seen where it can go in this unfortunate epidemic plagueing the western world.

this again is due to value systems. value systems do have their merits if one gives a very careful thought to the state of affairs. sorry for the long discourse but as u understand the answer to ur question was not so simple.

hopefully i have been able to answer your question.

disclaimer : my opinions are purely based on my knowledge , i do not intend to malign the western society merely stating observed facts in the perspective.

Edited by anjana.d - 13 years ago

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

Thanks anjana.d -- fantastic reply 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

I love it and ofcourse am not offended. Appreciate your taking the time to let me know.

I havent seen event horizon, but will definitely do so. Thanks for the movie recommendation.

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liv2laugh

@liv2laugh

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 13 years ago

Hi Tinoo

What you are calling your values system is what others refer to as a moral compass though the latter term sounds a little more rigid. Call it what you want but everyone has the capacity to distinguish between right and wrong. The difference comes in the choice they make after that. Some people decide to do the right thing and other decide to choose the wrong. The reasons for choosing the wrong path may be many and varied but in most cases people MAKE a decision to choose the wrong path. Therein lies the difference. People who choose to do the right thing fully knowing it will be harder or that it may have consequences are those whom we call righteous whereas the people at the other extreme are called by lots of names most of them anything but complimentary 😆.

I think most people are somewhere in the middle. When they know they will not get caught and also that there will be no serious consequences, they may choose the wrong path especially if they know no harm will be done. For example after a long day of work, as long as there are no cars around - most of us will make a U turn even though the board says "no U turn". 😕 We are breaking the law, which is not the right thing to do but hey we are not hurting anyone. 😳

I think each one of us must also choose what we can and cannot live with.Clearly you tried to be friends with him in spite of his life choices being against your values system. But you reached a breaking point and you made a choice. I want you to accept this choice and be proud of it. You made the choice because your friend went against your value system. In the long run this could have turned toxic for you with you hating yourself for supporting him in his wrong choices.

Hats off to you. You had the guts to tell him the truth, which by the way true friends are supposed to do. I want to make sure you are comfortable with your choice because that is the most important thing. You might miss your friend but on the flip side, are you comfortable to being a party to his deeds? That is the question you ask yourself every time you feel the loss of a friend.

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

Hi liv2laugh -- love your name!!

😆😆 I think you are right about the fact that one always knows right from wrong ... and the choice one makes after that is what is under the microscope in this discussion...

so yes, i have never thought of adultery as right ... but i dont know that i ever came to the point of condemning someone for it.

I would not do it in my own life ... but was perfectly okay with a friend doing it in his own life. no skin off my nose...

Today, the equation changed ... not only would I not do it in my life, I also dont even want to associate with people who do it in their life. So this is a big paradigm shift for me ... not only having a clear sense of what i find right and wrong ... but also aligning myself with people who fall within that particular value system (or shedding people who dont)...

To answer your question -- I am obviously not fully comfortable for ending the friendship, otherwise I wouldnt have posted on the forum -- there has to be something bothering me, otherwise I would just have ended it and it would have seemed the most natural thing in the world, wouldnt even feel the need to discuss it. 😆 still exploring my feelings.

thanks for replying !

But yes, I think you are right that a value is something we do/practice/respect under all circumstances, even when nobody is watching. I will wait at a red light even if there is not one car at an intersection and not one police system -- so atleast in terms of traffic, I have respect for the authority that is placed on a red light. 😆😆 ... yet, for some reason i was very comfortable with my friend's adultery.

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Payal

@payalibm

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: tinoo
Thanks Payal ... but why did it start bothering me now that he was lying to his live-in girlfriend... when I have known about it for a long time ... (I have never met the girlfriend by the way, so its not loyalty to her that caused me to break it off, and i have never met his wife either)... his lack of truthfulness to the girlfriend never bothered me before. Today all of a sudden for no reason it did bother me when i saw him.

He has been honest with his wife, but she doesnt care ... she says do what you want, but i will not give up my legal position as your wife (he is not wealthy or anything, she is not eyeing his property)

I tried hard to suppress my judgment of him and just talk about other stuff, but it bothered me no end.

well swetheart the thing is some time..even when things are present in frotn of our eyes..we still dosent see it or recognise it...till we actulay dont face it or see some one who is important part of us and goes through the same...

what i mean is...till shiv dint enter you might have been in jeoprdy...btu as soon as shiv enterd you saw some thing which is MOST REQUIRED IN ANY REPLSTIONSHIP...BE IT WHATEVA RELATION...and here you saw open truth..understanding and deep respcy for each relation..be DS or BHAIRO or ANANDI or PEOPLE OF VILLAGE...and this all were unknown to shiv...but still he preferd to eb truth...and trust can be developed not by just some words or can be served on plate...it HAS TO BE EARNED...and here see you were least bother about wife coz you know what kind she is...yet you got worried and hurt by the woman he is having leaving relationship with...because he is good man or not your friend or not...what effected you was he is doing cheating ... he is playing with emotions and life of a girl...he dint let the girl choose him even after he told the truth...he lied and cheated on her...and might the day she will coem to know hwo much broken she will be...its not posible to imagin the pain a girl or woman went throug when she is being cheated by the man she loves unconditionaly...it breks you deep from soul

i had a friend poonam...she was my frined for more then 10years...she was having an affair with a man named mansih...who was an CA by profession and was rich...he couldnt marry her because her parents were not able to give the kind of dowery his parents were on look out for...the man was so spinless he dint had guts to tell his parents about poonam..but his parents knew about it...lolzz...yet they found a girl for him and married him...lolzzz...he went to HM and all...and fter soem time i came to know about him being married...and poonam jsut sliped it unconsily ke manish married...and jsut day before i saw her wiht manish...yet i coudnt think about it being wrong...i ditn use to watch tv and all as dint had tv that time with me..this is about 1999..as my inlws dosent prefer..and dint have much knowledge about all this thing..its been now 2 years since she still with manish...and then i saw this serial...and then it striked me...she is my frined and does it mean she is right or i shoudl negetl it...and then evry time i sue to try and make her understand...and one day it finalay dawned on me..what if my huby doing same with me...how much hurt i will be...i couldnt eat that day..i couldnt sleep that night and understood the depth of the situaiton...and next day i had a fight over with poonam..coz we had to attend our collegue son 1st b'day party and she was suppose to arrange the food...and she dint do anything and it was already afternon..and she was busy with that spinless pig in her center having sex...how me and other 2 frined arranged we know...till teh guest arrived their was still chaoes..but then the catreer we had talked to amaged to arrnage for us and arrived on time...at 10 we went to search foe her and found manish car outseide her center and then seeing him hiding inside bathroom all nude...and poonam all in rukaas posiiotn...the fight i had wiht her then...you know her explanation...manish is married for so many years but he hasnt touched his wife yet..what aloud gaufooo...the slap i gave her...the frinedship which was broken...man...it still hurtss...but as if nothing effected her...till 3 yers before she was still having affair with him...and then i complitely droped all contacts with her...alll..3 years before and all other group members...as they all started geting married and understood why i did what i did with poonam..and all those who were standing with her left her one by one..now all our group..shruti.nidhi,meenu,priya,priyanka,avantika,shalini and me are yet best of friends...but poona, is out of group...so you see soem time we dont understand even when things are in front of our eye...yet till we dont see some one related to us go through it or dint see some character in that situation we dont analise...and then when we see we start anlysing..and now you also did...i call my self such a fool.it tuk me yet 2 years to knw the depth of her betryel...and i fele ashmed i was wiht her that time...

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NoOne12

@NoOne12

Navigator

Posted: 13 years ago

The moral compass has to be more for yourself than for others. The policy of live and let live is best. We are nobody to judge other person. Supporting or believing in some values means we living upto them, not expecting others to follow them. Be the change you want to see 😊. For example if you want support fidelity, them make sure that you are committed, don't expect the same from others or start lecturing them to be one 😆. However you can distance yourself from such people if you are uncomforatble with their company. I once distanced myself from a friend who lied a lot. I didn't lecture her to change, but I couldn't tolerate it. I thought she will sure shot cheat me on something. I am cordial to her still but I don't hang out 😆.

Now why should we follow the right path or so called good values. Nice question. I know one thing deep down we all are good (98%) and we don't want to harm others. So when we do anything painful it does prick our conscience. we can choose to ignore it, but it makes us a dubious person. - truth, honesty, love and forgiveness. i will just take up these values as I know them quite well...

Truth: I think it is good to be truthful and honest as it doesn't blur the world. You just see it as it is and do not seek comfort in a created world. Like in Anandi's case, she accepted the truth and didn't try to distort it by thinking he will be back or I should try something. Sometimes facing the truth can make you a stronger person. I have many times lied to myself but have only suffered. The inevitable happened and I couldn't stop it, but it was more painful because I choose not to see it early. Being honest can also help you go thorugh failures. Many times we end up blaming other person, circumstances rather than assessing our own mistakes. Because we refuse to see our own mistakes, we never improve and consequently end up thinking others to be more lucky. I do not deny tradgedies and back stabbing, but there are other things. I remember during my Mphil a girl couldn't make it through she ended up blaming politics and teacher favourtism. I was with her, and she began telling me about her interview. I could see the mistake. many times she didn't encourage discussion. For ex: She told interviewers that she has studied Rabindranath Tagore. When the interviewers ask her to detail it she couldn't answer it completely, giving some monotonous replies. This is only one, she answered all questions in a confusing ways. Now if she acknowledge her mistake its good right. iIeven paraphrased her answers and told her what could be the possible way out and she could take counselling. At first she agreed but within few days came back to old chant teacher politics! 😲 Of cousre truth can hurt you and confuse, you may not know how to change for instance, but living with lie though comfortable will only stunt you.

Honesty with others can make you win a lot of friends and doesn't complicate life much 😃

Love and forgiveness: Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong not of the weak. Hate only makes your life difficult and makes you feel weak. Its like a prison. Buddha said it correctly, its like holding burnt coal that will hurt you. You can never change the past, best you can do is make peace with it. When Christ said love your enemies, I think he meant don't keep the hate with you because it will take you no where. It's true because I have lived in these tunnels for long and wasted so much time self-pitying and getting angry! And we also end up forgetting other person is also human and not perfect. we cannot expect perfect behaviour forever. A beautiful story below will illustrate what I am saying:

During his pilgrimage to Mecca, a holy man began to feel the presence of God.

In the midst of a trance he knelt down, hid his face and prayed:
"Lord, I ask for only one thing in life: that I be given the grace of never offending you."

"I cannot grant you that grace," answered the Almighty. 'If you don't offend me I shall have no reason to pardon you.

" If I have no need to pardon you, soon you will also forget the importance of mercy towards others.

"So go on your way with Love and let me grant pardon now and again so that you don't forget that virtue as well."😊

In short I think following these values will only make you a better person , follow them for your own good but don't impose them on others 😊

Just one more thing you didn't mind Jagiya marrying gauri and breaking off his marriage. But you gave me such a different view on dating. It won't be a great thing if Shiv falls out of love of Ashi and falls in love Anandi. I think you have contadicted yourself.

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#10

Originally posted by: avantikasharma1
Just one more thing you didn't mind Jagiya marrying gauri and breaking off his marriage. But you gave me such a different view on dating. It won't be a great thing if Shiv falls out of love of Ashi and falls in love Anandi. I think you have contadicted yourself.

My statement still stands ... the crux of the issue is that shiv is NOT in love with ashi... If he were in love with ashi, then yes there would be a contradiction. Yet, given that he is NOT in love with ashi, has never given her any encouragement and till date does not reach out to her actively, my statement still stands.

The rest of your post is absolutely brilliant!!

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having a moral compass - why does it matter?

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