when does forgiveness erodes self-concept?

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#11

so maybe i find myself happier taking revenge/having vindictive thoughts and that is my priority? 😆😆😆 interesting thought.

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Khusi

@khusi_*

Stunner

+ 3

Posted: 13 years ago

#12

Yup right!
That is not a wrong thing! A person genuinely wronged u, u wanna punish him/her... That's absolutely fine!

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woman11

@woman11

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#13

tinoo: I think both Anandi and Phooli believe in negotiating with their misfortunes and moving forward without taking revenge on their wrong doers.

There are several ways how people handle misfortunes or wrongdoings in their lives. Some would want revenge and will not rest till all the perpetrators are punished. That gives them the sense of triumph and contentment. Some take recourse to moral ascendancy and forgive all their enemies and thus feel morally elevated-----leading their sense of triumph and contentment. However, Anandi and Phooli have taken a different way to come to terms with their crisis. Both of them refuse to cry over spilt milk, try to make the best out of their situations and reconcile with the violence of their wrongdoers by erasing them completely off their lives. That's just another way of coping--------that I will distance myself from you, our lives will be completely separate and I have nothing more to do with you. A complete erasure---that's what these women have done and it is indeed a dignified way of coming out of trauma.

I guess one of the reasons Anandi did not want to drag Jagya to the court was because she just wanted to sever herself completely from Jagya-------an ongoing court case would have meant a continued interaction with him, even as a foe, and a continued presence of Jagya in her life. I guess she just wanted to move on. The same goes with Phooli------she had nothing more to do with her husband, she just wanted her baby and move on with her life. In fact, this is exactly what I do too. If I have an altercation with a person, I do not seek revenge. For me, seeking revenge requires a more intense engagement with that person, a lot of negative energy required on your part and it is an emotionally exhausting project----hatred is a very strong emotion. Instead, I cope better if I can erase that person completely from my life and have nothing to do with him/her, and just move on. That doesn't mean I have forgiven my enemy, I just don't to waste any more of time and emotion on him/her. There is nothing right or wrong in this attitude, it is just another way of handling crisis.

Edited by woman11 - 13 years ago

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#14

thanks woman11!

This was my original question -- the paradigm that these women are using and you nailed it

😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

Thank you for explaining the three alternative paradigms

1. revenge

2. forgiveness and

3. non-engagement any more with the 'enemy'

i knew 1 and 2 and was puzzled that neither anandi nor phooli fell into either category -- so you've explained very well that there is a third lens of non-engagement which i didnt/couldnt process.

its all cleared up now.

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Anmol Jain

@intruderfast

Trailblazer

+ 4

Posted: 13 years ago

#15

Originally posted by: tinoo
okay -- forget anandi -- you are right old habits die hard.

but now look at phooli -- she now has the added burden of a child (even if she loves the child) and this sort of erases hope of her finding another man to marry her (unless she finds a rare case such as shyam) --

and she was not bharat's guardian angel since childhood.

still she conducts herself in a dignified manner and does not go about trying to inflict revenge on bharat and her ex-inlaws. she is not vindictive.

she is loving towards her child and she is doing her school teacher job and moving on with life.

i dont know why phooli was not hard , maybe cos she didnt have law on her side

maybe these woman think it as thier bad karma and thus they dont avenge their insult

they think leave it to god, he will punish them , we will not do this

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#16

But then wont the perpetrator continue doing whatever they are doing if we non-engage ?

sadhu babas like asha's continue doing what they are doing

bharat will find another naata lady

etc. etc.

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anshansh

@anshansh

Inactive

Posted: 13 years ago

#17

anandi didn't punish that man it was really disgusting but she maintained one thing that jagya is victim of child marriage like her this she told to shivani so she forgived that he is doctor and should get educated life partner and he ditched her that was wrong he should have confessed this to her that i will leave u for this but this man he has no sense just dragged away with his lust for city life no aim just stupid luv fake marriage no responsibility just a beggar degraded person no self respect sinner man why should she run for such man 😡

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woman11

@woman11

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#18

tinoo: this does not apply to social evils, I am talking about personal loss. What the sadhu baba did was on a social scale, so punishing the sadhu baba would have helped a lot of other women who the same man would have exploited. However, Anandi's loss was more personal, Jagya is not a habitual womanizer, he's stopped at just two 😆. Phooli's case is a little different-----guess it depends on how Phooli sees it------as a social evil or as a personal loss.

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stuti..

@stuti..

Inactive

Posted: 13 years ago

#19

Anandi's forgiveness comes from a position of strength (for that matter any forgiveness could, if adopted 'fully conscious', which is the beauty). The fact that she could easily have punished the trespassers but she didn't, combined with another fact that she has not lost any self esteem -rather gained a good deal thereon- along with all round progress on personal fronts, clearly speaks that she herself is not feeling a 'doormat' any which way. She has no regret on 'inaction'. For her the moving on with the SELF, without dwelling on the exhaustive or sapping 'punishments', is itself an action. When implored by her elders to take punishing actions, she explained her stand, "there is no point in begrudging someone who had feeling of injustice themselves, as well, no point in holding onto someone." Her occasional thoughts pertains to only this aspect, that how this change (in Jagya) has come about. But she does not feel that a change of feelings (in Jagya) warrants a punishment… In these, she disengages her own sense of self respect beyond the reach or effect of Jagya's actions. Occasional sadness- yes, but recurring 'self-pity' driven anger- a comprehensive No...The results vindicate her stand.

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@IBserenity

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 13 years ago

#20

i think she was the best when she stood in the haveli and told Dadi sa and everyone what J had done in Mumbai when she went to visit for his Bday. That was her defending herself after such a long time and showed that he did wrong. I think that A needs to come back. I mean I get that whole passive wiseness that A has but c'mon... no one can be that passive unless they are in a coma.

even village people keep disobeying her or not trusting her because she doesn't show any authority. Everything needs a good dose in "i'm your sarpanch not a child". Wake up Anandi.

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