Should G be concerned with J's treatment of A ?

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hppppp

@hppppp

Inactive

Posted: 14 years ago

#51

annika...I don't even know why you are giving reasons to say that Jagya's way of separating with anandi was wrong...but his decision to separate was not. I have said it 100 times myself...and u dont need to prove it to me atleast that his handling of the matter was wrong.

abt me not knowing real life...these days in real life, very few women think about a guy's equation with another woman in his past(not counting the legal thing between J & A)...marriage is a serious relation...I agree...but why two people are together, is very difficult to understand from a thord person's point of view and that is real. (think abt famous people...Sridevi, Hema malini, smita Patil...Aamir Khan...)

Again she didn't care about legalities was too reckless...

I am only saying...its impossible to control the changing world...marriages are getting unhappier...possibilites of cheating are increasing...

as a woman, one need to be prepared for this changed world,...every woman has to prepare herself...

and going by the parameters that guys who've cheated one woman... should not be considered fit for marriage by other girls. I wish we could have such "clean" guys. That is like eliminating marriages and most boys...because atleats I don't think such nice guys exist in huge numbers !

...From where will girls find guys...who will not cheat...will never tell lies?? I haven't found such guys...even the guys who are known as "best husbands"...are often good at keeping their wives in blissful state of ignorance...and keep hitting on greener pastures when they get a chance.They talk abotu values/marriages/loyalty...and then a beautiful secretary walks in...and they even forget what they were talking about!!...😆😆...If loyal men exist-who would never, never cheat their wives with nicer women...even if they have chances to...I am yet to see such men!! ...I mean they might not necessarily in practical life cheat their wives ...but possibility lies within almost every man...

.given the way things are...and in Gauri's case...its just natural for a woman to to go for the guy who feels strongly for her...its impossible to eliminate the possibilty of cheating coz of ALL guys nature, but a guy's strong feelings for herself are a good criterion fir many women...and gut and feelings have a lot of say here...Sridevi was second wife...but boney kapoor didnt marry the third time...Camilla and Prince Charles are sticking together till now...its difficult to define relations by rules or statistics...or judge guys based on record books...sometimes its just the strength of feelings that just defines everything...many guys who otherwise have a tendency to cheat, just curb their desire to cheat, because he feels very strongly for a woman,that the feeling takes over everything...and why he feels so committed, when he is not even loyal by nature...-even he himself doesn't know...

I am only saying these things cannot be measured by a guy's record books exclusively...there are just too many factors ... if there was a formula to measure how much a guy would be loyal to you...everything would be easy...the tendency to cheat is there in almost every guy, but what makes him control it--is not that simple...

Edited by hima_123 - 14 years ago

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642126

Hibernated

Posted: 14 years ago

#52

My final reply to you:

All women are not supposed to think about ideal guys or guy's background or conduct. But I believe a girl like Gauri who's suffered earlier, should be careful. I would have understood her if she were of normal background and grew up with own dreamy stuff of Prince Charming without ever having a taste of reality! Gauri has seen harsh reality at a very early age! Marrying a boy from the same dhokebaaz family is foolish! She knew the boy was ''gadbad'' and so was his family! Still people are talking about blind love, inexplicable magnetism and attraction and whatnot! I don't talk about women at large in real life! I talk about women like Gauri who've been duped in name of marriage once upon a time in life! Such a person has to be vigilant to avoid experiencing same pain again.

Don't give me examples of Sridevi or Hema or Aamir Khan!

They did have affairs or married second time. But they did not leave other partner in lurch. They got their pre-existing partners formally and legally out of their lives.

Aamir first divorced his first wife, only then got married to someone else. Boney Kapoor first divorced his wife and then married Sridevi.

In Hema's case, Dharmendra is said to have converted to Islam so that he could keep both wives. He never left his first wife or her kids (Sunny and Bobby) in the lurch, all alone to fend for themselves! If he couldn't divorce her, he found a way of keeping both women! At least he did things openly instead of lying or hiding stuff!

Talking of Hema Malini, let me tell you, whenever she's asked she declares she'd make sure her daughters never attach themselves to a married man! That's what I called, learning from experience and being careful and vigilant in future to avoid the mess!

A Hema Malini, Rekha or Smita Patil may not have experienced trauma in their lives - of being ditched by a man or his family. They started off on a clean slate.

Gauri type women can't be likened to such women in real life.

Affairs or cheating happen, but you do get divorce and formally get the first wife out of your life. Just barking on the phone doesn't mean the person is out of your life!

Jagya didn't know about laws, but he could have called a Panchayat to dissolve his rishta with Anandi or made an open declaration to family!

I don't say there are ideal boys in this world, but lying about everything under the sun is serious - even your name and background. It's not so small that you put it aside. I am amazed how people are willing to ignore this all. He's given misinformation to college administration about his identity and domicile, not just told an itsy-bitsy lie to one friend! He's lying even to get accommodation and has no qualms in even putting realistic touches in his drama - like putting sindoor and mangalsutra on a girl who he isn't married to, insulting traditional symbols which are taken seriously at least by women. He didn't even think what people would think and what would happen if someday someone learnt that he's living with another girl posing as man and wife. If not for himself, at least he should have thought about Gauri (funny she herself didn't think about it!).

He doesn't let anyone touch his cell phone, dodges questions on background. Jhoot pe jhoot, har baat pe jhoot aur bakwaas - but such a man is to trusted for future, coz no matter what he's overtly nice and caring to the girl! Arrey he was chickening out in front of Bade Papa and couldn't withstand his simple introduction questions!! Even that didn't ring a bell in Gauri's mind!

If we consider behaviour only towards Gauri, wasn't he always deceiving her and lying to her? How could she ignore it? I again ask, isn't marriage and true love about mutual honesty and trust?!

If inspite of being from the same rural background and culture Gauri can't think for herself or cast doubts on such a boy then good for her! She's already getting ''fruits'' of this decision. She'll get even more.

In real life, I think women at large, either obey parents and have arranged marriage, or they take adults' opinion very seriously and consult many other older and wiser people as well as married people of the same age before jumping into marriage. Girls and their families examine a boy's background very seriously. In love marriages, either girls and boys bring in families and convince them or if people ''rush'' into marriage without giving a damn about habits, background, families then most of them regret their decision or suffer at some point in their lives. Very few such couples' marriages are actually happy, stable and lasting. [By ''such'' couples I mean couples who don't give a damn about family or learn about each other's background or know that one of them has some un-divorced husband or wife in past!]

Nowadays, increasingly even ''other women'' keep pressing the man to first divorce his wife and only then they'd let him take advantage of them or marry him!

Courtship is not just staying with boy or girl for X number of years, I think it also involves getting introduced to and knowing about each other's family and friends! Please correct me if I am mistaken! Jagya-Gauri's so-called 5 years together, can't even be called courtship - on the basis of which Gauri decided to marry him!

Gauri is once badly bitten, but never shy! Strange and new logics being mooted to justify Gauri's folly!

Simple baat - she should have kept him at bay until he formally, socially or legally got Anandi out of his life first and then come back to her. Either you consult a lawyer like Bhairon and Anandi did, instead of using your own ''GK'' or you get the boy to dissolve the marriage via a Panchayat! Be vigilant and careful at least for your OWN sake and for the sake of a secure future with your chosen man! Why invite same pain like the one you faced in childhood? Using your brains for your own sake doesn't mean reducing your love or extinguishing it altogether!

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hppppp

@hppppp

Inactive

Posted: 14 years ago

#53

you sure..? Sridevi didn't start on a clean slate...she married as a second wife, without divorce...it was much later divorce happened, same with hema malini... amir khan had an extra marital affair before leaving first wife, even thoug he took legal divorce...he must've not come home declaring honestly--"I slept with another woman today!"..Saif Ali Khan had an extra marital cheating his first wife and then divorcing her...still kareena Kapoor knowing his history, accepted him believing he will be honest to her...

Disclaimer: This example is exclusively to illustrate that many women, based on their relationship with a guy do not think about his being disloyal to other woman. Please DO NOT assume this example justifies illegal marriages anyways or such husbands...even though this example has references of some illegal marriages...!! It defends neither such men, nor illegal stuff...it only defends the second/third woman not necessarily being concerned about the first or former one..!!

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I am not saying all this to justify Jagya...I don't know if I have to repeat 30000 times that I am not defending Jagya...and I still don't understand whats the point saying Jagya did this ..that..., when I have myself been saying didn;t handle matters properly.

I am just exemplifying only one thing---ONE THING---that LOT of women do not think of the guy leaving the other woman for her...as a criterion that the guy will cheat her also...

YES,YES, YES...Gauri should have checked the legalities?? But who denied it !! Yes she should have checked the legalities!! Do you want me to give 100 times in writing or what??...

What are we discussing here...1).that Gauri should have considered that Jagya cheated his wife for her!! My answer is that depends on her equation with Jagya...if she felt her equation strong enough...she might not consider this..like LOT of other women!!-----ITS HERE I used the above example in red fontof a LOT of other women...who have been into marriages with men who have cheated their forst wives...

2) Should legalities have mattered to her...!! YES, YES...she should have checked the legal status of divorce...the example in red was NOTmeant for justifying her LACK of knowledge of legalities

1) & 2) are two separate things...like 2 SEPARATE...SEPARAAATE!!

Edited by hima_123 - 14 years ago

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 14 years ago

#54

With reference to the discussion on Anandi's complete silence on the abandonment issue --

I think the family already knew there was a high deal of tension between them and they too averted their eyes. It is not that they did not know. THEY KNEW AND CHOSE TO IGNORE IT.

After that huge show-down after Anandi's 10th standard results where anandi unmasked him and told everyone that Jagya had said that there was a huge difference between their education (zameen aasman ka farq)...and sumitra slapped him for being rude to teacherji ... the very next day, Jagya slipped out the door - with dadisa's blessing. She gave him money and he left for Mumbai in the darkness of the night. The next morning - everyone looking for Jagya and he is nowhere to be found, when dadisa comes down the stairs and says "woh mumbai waapis chalo gayo kal raat hi, usey dhundhne ki zaroorat na hai...and dont contact him, he is not in the mood to speak".

The point is that this tension between Jagya and Anandi was palpable, all reasons were known to the singh family because of Anandi's graphic description of what happened on his birthday, and then jagya slipped away -- and the matter was just swept under the rug and left hanging in the air. At that point, Bhairon and sumitra should have stepped in and gone to Mumbai after him and had a clear discussion to acquire clarity and resolve the issue.

If the issue crops up and then is left hanging and unresolved ... then it will not resolve itself on their own. It will just fester. But they left it to fester.

ANANDI ALSO HID THE FACT TO HER FAMILY THAT SHE SAW HIM DANCING WITH GAURI. She only talked about Jagya's frustration with her education levels. She should have told the singh family that this is what she saw. Even though J and G had not yet formally declared their love to each other, it was obvious that they were friends -- and closer than friends - a girl who feeds a boy cake, and then dances by twirling into his arms. And that too at such close proximity. At that time she was putting her hand on Jagat's shoulder etc. Such intimacies are not mistaken even in modern India.

Nobody in their wildest dreams conceived of Jagya marrying someone else. They just thought that this was a tiff between J and A based on educational imbalance between him and her. If she had told them right at the start (even Bhairon in confidence) ...then they may have understood the seriousness of the situation (in terms of it being about another girl and not about anandi's education) and perhaps would have more foresight about where this would lead (J abandoning A and marrying G).

However, here too, the singh family assumed that Jagya would eventually finish his medical education and would come back to Jayetsar and live at home ... and eventually the J-A tiff would even itself out. This is what Phooli and everyone else who knew also bargained for and when J was coming home from medical college after finishing MBBS - they assumed he would stay there. So Gehna, sumitra, phooli all were telling her - it would be great from now on!

The one thing I am very angry with Anandi about is that when J called to tell her he did not love her on the phone ... she fainted. At that time Bhairon and sumitra took her to Jaipur in the car, they stayed with her in the hospital, they were so concerned. Nobody knew why she had fainted, what had happened. During the entire car ride, sumitra kept asking her "what happened suddenly? what happened? did something happen?"

Atleast then, Anandi knew that J did not want her with clarity-- atleast at that point, with formal confirmation from J, by virtue of a telephone call - she should have told Bhairon and sumitra what J said. No. Just make everyone run around.

Even in the hospital, she knew Bhairon was trying to call Jagya several times to come from Mumbai to Jaipur to see Anandi. But No. She kept quiet. When Bhairon apologized to her and said that Jagya is not able to find plane tickets, she just said softly "main jaanti thi wo nahi aayenge"... but she never said why she knew he would not come.

At many points in our life, we may not have full clarity to articulate what is going on in our lives. We ourselves may not know. It is like just feeling tired and sick. But not really knowing whether it is indigestion from the food we ate last night, some liver problem, or the onset of early cancer. So I dont fault anandi. She knew something was wrong, but she may not have been able to figure out what was wrong.

However, after hearing it straight from the horse's mouth - by then at least, she should have opened her mouth and told bhairon and sumitra in Jaipur either on the way to the hospital, in the hospital, or on the way back.

My other big brief with anandi is that she had enough time to know over these years that there is no relationship between her and Jagya -- so when J brought G home -- she should not be so emotionally attached to seeing them together. Initially she was dropping tea cups full of tea - glasses shattering etc. etc. falling down herself, pulling herself together. Atleast this part was not a shock to her at all. It is not like she knew nothing, and voila, suddenly one day - there is Gauri on the doorstep. This should not have come as a shock - atleast in the way that it has been portrayed.

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 14 years ago

#55

Originally posted by: hima_123
Should legalities have mattered to her...!! YES, YES...she should have checked the legal status of divorce ...

Yes she should have checked the legalities ... not because they matter to us or to anyone else...but because they matter to HER. She is the one obsessed with not being a doosri aurat and a kanoonan wife. She was the one obsessed with not being a live-in-girlfriend for long-term. Even before the truth came out, she would pressurize Jagat every now and then to get married. He would say "MS khatam hone ke baad" and she would say "to kya hame do aur saal rukna padega?".

If legalities were of no concern to Gauri herself, then it is fine with the rest of the world.

But since legality is important to Gauri, she should have made sure to check.

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hooked

@hooked

Dazzler

Posted: 14 years ago

#56

Agree 100% with Anandi being equally at fault. Am quite sick of all the Ja gya bashing honestly as I do think Anandi was fully aware just like the legality issue and deliberately CHOSE to keep silent.

I have said this a couple of times before too - after DadiSa - She is the second biggest person who spoilt Jagya and never bothered to see that shielding him was not 'beendni ka dharm' it was telling him that he can do this too and get away.

Yes - Bhairon and Sumitra are alo very responsible - after that massive showdown - they never bothered to see how Jagya was with Anandi on his trips back home ?? Why not ?? They became super obsessed with Anandi's tyaag in letting her hubby go away for 5 years to study - they decided to help her do her class 12. Shudn't they have helped make her marriage stronger ? Shudn't they have sent her over in the vacations or called him over to see if these 2 are happy ?

J and G have had enough brickbats - but the haveli people are choosing to not see their own hand in it.

Hope they will show a Bhairon-Sumitra conversation where he can admit that he shud have seen it coming..Agreed - Anandi is a softspoken easily upset very sacrificing person but always letting her get away with her 'Poor Me' attitude is not fair on the others..willful blindness and amnesia shud be punished - and she got it.

Gauri has been sufficiently blamed of being reckless, hotheaded, too blind in love and totally lacking reasoning - she got in this mess with both her eyes open - Jagya too...and this forum has abused them enough. Even DadiSa has got enough flak for her role in spoiling J.

But I do think - Anandi, Sumitra and Bhairon have not been shown to realize how they too contributed to this huge big mess and chose to stay in a fools' paradise for 5 long years..

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 14 years ago

#57

And furthermore, the double standard of Jagya should have been evident to Bhairon atleast if not anyone else.

On the one hand, during the 10th std. results confrontation, he says that anandi is gawar and anpadh.

On the other hand, he also tells her firmly in front of all "main tumhara beendh hoon, aur beendh hone ke naatey, main thume padhne ki ijazaat nahin deta".

At that time itself - this is such a big paradox, that even the most gawar person will question -- well, make up your mind jaggy boy, which is it ? Do you want an educated wife or do you want an uneducated wife?

You cant say that you want an educated wife and that anandi is gawar and uneducated, and then at the same time put a stop to her education.

Infact, if he wanted her to study, he could very easily have taken a stand against dadisa and told her that your ladessar wants an educated girl. I will not be able to move around in society with a 10th pass girl so kindly ensure that you see to it that she finishes her graudation. Dadisa would gladly have agreed to anything her laadesar said.

So at that point itself, bhairon and sumitra should have had clarity that this is not going on the right track. Which they did. They had clarity and chose to ignore it.

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 14 years ago

#58

Originally posted by: hooked

But I do think - Anandi, Sumitra and Bhairon have not been shown to realize how they too contributed to this huge big mess and chose to stay in a fools' paradise for 5 long years..

Amen! 👏👏👏

And as for the legality issue at the lawyer's office -- why hide it?

I mean choosing not to act on it for reasons of haveli ijjat is one thing... but choosing not to even tell them is ridiculous. How would telling anyone harm anything? Filing a lawsuit i understand might be difficult ...but just telling them "hey you two morons, you are not legal"... where is the harm in that?

Is she afraid that Jagya will ask her for a divorce, and the case will move to court and haveli ijjat will be spoiled?

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hooked

@hooked

Dazzler

Posted: 14 years ago

#59

My biggest problem is with Anandi actually. Its the same problem that many had just post the turning 18 leap. Avika was articulate, smart, asked umpteen questions about everything, expected equal rights as J and always gave Jagya hell everytime he did some hera-pheri.

I don't hv to recall those incidents - but when he was bunking classes or when he stole money or when he messed up their marksheets - each time Jagya got it good and proper. The pinnacle was him running away to Mumbai - after which - he seemed to have mellowed down a bit.

But this Pratyusha Anandi was just such a watered down 10% conc. solution of the original firebrand...everyone had become disappointed in her. Her ability to swallow every insult, take on every hardship, be agreeable to every little thing and be most attentive to the slightest hurt of everyone was so far from the original spirit.

The old Anandi wud NEVER have hidden the details of her trip to mumbai for as long as she did. Or the lack of phone calls - the lack of letters going to n fro shud have bothered the family - but it didn't 😲 ! Jagya's open rudeness to her when he complained about the greasy food and everything Jaisar shud have raised red-flags in everybody's mind.

Anandi just lived like a dolled up bahu in the complete security of her haveli and still got lots of ashirvaads for her sacrifice...😕.

When Jagya said he wanted to do MS and was never going to comeback even after that - WHY DID SHE STOP THEM FROM TELLING HER PARENTS ? More importantly - why did Bhairon listen ?

When he broke up on the phone - her silence ? despite Sumitra's asking? When he threw her out of their bedroom - her silence to Gehna ? despite Gehna's asking ?

Fasting on Akhha Teej n nau Durge and touching everyone's feet and praying to Devima is not sufficent - A stopped being a wife a very longtime back - she was quite content being an adored bahu.

Hope this will serve as a wakeup call to many more of the serial watchers in a similar situation... if something is not making sense - sit up and explore, find out why...don't just brush it aside and continue being an ostrich.

All the signs were there - what was lacking was interpretation. Anandi has been having flashbacks of them all periodically, specially since his phone breakup - but her continued silence was most annoying. Keeping quiet abt the lawyer opinion didn't really matter that much bcoz the situation was already out of hand by then. Except stretch the torture for everyone for some more days - that didn't really achieve much else.

Even if I understand that this nature was due to village conditioning or DS's constant domination, she has sharp brains - she shud have spoken to SOMEONE atleast. Her mom, Phooli, Gehna, Bhairon (am not incl Sumi) - there were enuf people to talk to n air her doubts/apprehensions.

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Anmol Jain

@intruderfast

Trailblazer

+ 4

Posted: 14 years ago

#60

hooked i want to super duper like ur post👏excellent and valid points,

and i would like to add some more ppl in thsi list

phooli, what kind of friend is she , she was telling anandi how could u hide gaga marriage with me

hello madam , u knew all abt jagya gauri for 5 yrs and you choose to shut ur mouth , even when anandi told u , that jagya does not love her , u kept silent and only gave anandi false hopes

she knew everything still she did not tell anandi, what kind of a friend is she

and that showdown just before the leap, that should have been an eyeopener of sorts esp for bhairon a, what did they do, gave jagya a slap, and thought everything would be ok

jagya gave so many hints that he does not want anandi, he openly said i did not come at ur place ki anandi ki shaadi kara do mere saath , its just amazing how no one thought that there is some serious problems between anadi and jagya😕

and the most pathetic excuse for anandi not completing her education, no college in jaitser, i mean wth

after that fight i believe , jagya ignored anandi, that should have woken up anandi from her slumber, earlier he used to shout abuse anandi but now he ignored her he did not care what she does in her life

in the final days of jagya anandi relationship we saw how he used to avoid a not speak to her.

and i know many would say i am supporting jagya here but actually it was jagya who exposed himself

he was the one who told anandi he does not love her and they cant be together

and when bhairon came to mumbai, jagya could have easily kept quiet after just saying jagya gauri r pretending to be a couple , he divulged the entire truth then , he loves gauri and will marry her

Edited by intruderfast - 14 years ago

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Should G be concerned with J's treatment of A ? - Page 6

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