THE THINKERS’’..TOPIC 1. - Page 6

Originally posted by: xyzzee

Vasantha, I agree with you for the most part. Let me also add that when 2 people marry, it is NOT just the girl who marries the boy's family. It is the coming together of 2 families....It is the marriage between 2 families....When I got married, I did not think my parents' family lost a member but rather that the number of members increased by one! Same with my hubby's parents! His family increased by one member. Life cannot be a one way road..

👏👏 Very well said, pallo!

Originally posted by: krutilynn

OK guys (or should I just say gals? 😳 )….nopes, Ill just say "Hello Ladies" 😃 …my sincere apologies for not replying earlier….just one those things, u know…I was going to write earlier in the week, but was having problems logging on…and then I also thought perhaps you guys (sorry, gals…sorry, ladies) might thing what is this tuppence he's put up! And then I got frightened… 😕.

rriiiiiight...no, i dont believe you got frightened...just busy 😉

I wont go into the definition of the word as it has already been defined so well…and all of it makes sense, so I just concur… 👏

(I think this has been said already...)
It's all very well saying that men and women are equal, but from what I can see, well, they just ain't. 😉 Not only are they worlds apart physically, but they are totally dissimilar mentally as well…it has been asked how often do women grope men? Ummm, well, I think we all know the answer, but it is also very true to say there are many women who look so simplistic and naive in the exterior, but who do tend to get their upper body very (and I mean very as in totally) close to a man and thereby get themselves felt. OK, peeps here may want to throw eggs at me for that comment, but it does happen, and each time it is surprising at who the lady is…so where basic human instincts are concerned, each and every one of us can be as guilty as the other….

Yup, but on an average men do tend to be more aggressive physically than women - emphasis on 'average'

Men don't give birth, but without them, it just can't be done.

Yeah, i agree - however a good sperm bank can eliminate the need for men 😆 I am kidding of course, you are right.

Women get one opportunity a month to give birth, but man! that one opportunity can sometimes (so often) cause so many other problems!!! I am talking about PMS!!! Men don't get it, but they do suffer its effect! Although I am sure there is a male equivalent, it is certainly not as rife (yet anyway) in this age of irregular eating habits, and irregular living habits. (And also, lets not go into that one here). Can I ask you all a question please? If u don't mind? But why do women explode and display the full symptoms of PMS upon the mere mention of the word(s) PMS? Please, someone, enlighten me…. 🤢 😳 😃

OOOOOoooooo...i think that telling a woman that she has PMS is a surefire way to start a fight...the reason being that hormones typically cause stress in the woman around that time of the month. At that time she becomes particularly sensitive to everything and everyone around her. The problem with most males is that there is a tendency to take things for granted. Most women feel neglected and hence react especially when their sensitivities are at a peak. It is probable that at other times women merely ignore some of the behaviors displayed by men. For example - you can tell a guy a million-billion times to put down the toilet seat, or to place laundry after showering in the hamper - it takes years before men get this right unless they have lived with their parents (esp. mothers) all their lives. Now in ordinary circumstances, a woman can ignore this or merely state that "you forgot this AGAIN" but during PMS, it becomes an irritant. Many women do not have any PMS at all...but i think it basically depends on many other factors in the woman's life. I actually feel that there are some days in the month when men get antsy and display weird symptoms also...but this is just IMHO.

You see, there are many many differences between the two sexes… the fact that one is a son and one a daughter is just to expose the obvious differences. If, in a family, a daughter is like a son, then that is OK. But will it be equally OK for the son to behave like a daughter? 😉

I think you confused the issue of 'a daughter is like a son' versus 'a daughter behaves like a son' - the former refers to independence and self-worth whereas the latter refers to behavioral patterns. For instance, growing up i was a tomboy - while my parents adored my independence and respected it, more than once i was taken to task for 'behaving' like a boy! I hope this clarifies the difference 😃

As far as I am concerned, it is perfectly alright for a woman to go to work and expect to be treated equally to a man. She should expect the same benefits, and there is no reason why she can't be as good, if not better, than the man at whatever it is she is doing. However, you have to bear in mind that many woman themselves choose to stay at home and look after the family (Thank GOD, cos the man would probably make a right dogs-dinner of it all!). And this decision on the woman's part should be equally respected. In fact, how many of the ladies here don't go to work, and that too out of choice? If it is a choice, then this is something that should also be respected.

Amen to that!! BTW, i do think that men can do a good job even at home.. the roots of feeling inadequate lie in social norms that have been ingrained into us for so many years. I have known men who are home-makers and do a fabulous job. Heck, if i look at my own life...i believe that lynn would be a better homemaker than i can ever be - assuming it was required of one of us for whatever reason!! 😆

You see, these things are based on personal choices, but as far as I am concerned, and according to my observances, I feel a woman has a role in the family and sometimes she has to accept it, like it or not, and make the best of it.

Ummmm....define role!

Hope u guys don't mind, but once again, I shall refer to the raamacharitamaanaasa, in which a woman, Ansuyaji, tells Sitaji, another woman, that a woman should respect her husband even if he is old, dull-headed, sick, indigent, deaf, poor, wrathful or wretched….etc….despite all this, he should be respected.(I'm sorry, I am not able to reproduce the translation here, but I do have a jpeg of the translation if anyone wants it). Now, by all this, I don't mean a husband need be worshipped literally like GOD, and bowed down to umpteen times a day. No, he should be respected despite not wanting to. I have seen that when this doesn't happen, then the feminist woman who is a "mahila-mukti-morchaki-maha-mantri" will then go on to damage herself mentally. This is because, I feel, that woman needed to force themselves to respect their other half because if they don't then it is as if they loose out on a very necessary and integral part of their life and soul. i.e. her husband. A married woman needs him (certainly as per the Indian mentality).

Like some of the others have said in this thread...it is a matter of mutual respect and deference...if woman does not get respected than showing respect for her other half is self-inflicting. In the Ramcharitmanas - why did sita have to give an agnipariksha but even though Ram stopped at Shabri's place, he didnt have to?? How come Sita had to leave to go to the forest when Ram was considered blameless even though he had taken responsibility of Sita's protection when he went to the forest with her? dont get me wrong, i have the logical, philosophical, and mythological answers to all these questions but it does not detract from the fact that rules were different for men and women, regardless.

It's almost as if the dialogue between the 2 women that i mentioned is to actually protext the woman from herself!......I know there are extreme circumstances where this does not apply, but that is another topic. I am not saying the above applies 100% of the time. But the woman really should accept her husband, for her own sake. She should accept her husbands family as well and try to make the best of it. This, I feel, will lead to her leading a more happier and fulfilling life. I'm not sure I have explained myself very well in this paragraph, but please do try and understand what I am saying…it's just that I don't have the time to think and write more clearly, but thought I should contribute here. I will further say that I don't think it is something I can approve of for the man to go stay the the girls house. Abhi left his parents and went to stay at simran's. I didn't agree with that, but I can accept their were extenuating circumstances there.

I dont see anything wrong with a man moving in with a woman - esp. if she is his wife. In today's day and age there are many successful women also...a decision that benefits both parties involved does need to be taken. It is the basic of the principle of pareto optimality - life is pareto optimal as long as at least one of the people involved benefits without causing any harm to any of the others. I mean if the alternative to such a move is splitting up, then it is better to have a compromise which allows for both people to at least be with each other. Another for instance here - i might be moving as a result of my job in the next few months. Lynn has two choices - move with me or split up with me since i have spent 27 years of my life in achieving my goals. There was never any debate over this between us and he actually suggested that we move together to wherever i go. Now, is this a question of lack of mutual respect? NO. It is a question of the fact that he has established his career and he had my support through that. Now he is returning the favor! I hope this makes sense...but male-female roles are distorted these days...and that is not necessarily a bad thing 😃

Can I also say, that as a man, I also feel that quite often, the term "weaker sex" can more often than not, refer to us men. Ladies, we are totally lost without out woman. Really. It's no good without the woman. Really.

Hehehehehe...I think men can do just fine without women also...but i do see your point!

Peeps, I've gone on and on. Please do give me your comments, but please don't burn any bra's (cos I think men in fact really do want you to do that – you see, they have an ulterior motive!)…and please don't bite my head off. I don't know any of u personally, probably never will, so no offence is directed at any of you dear ladies. In general, I do agree with what most of u have written, perhaps more with srees and kruts postings…so any eggs sent my way should be targeted at them first. 😉

Nah, no bra-burnings here...and i guess nobody will bite your head off. Thanks for your inputs. I hope my explanations have not offended you in any way...i was simply clarifying some common differences that even intelligent men (such as yourself) and intelligent women (such as the rest of us) have in terms of thinking!😃

I know this was posted late, but please do reply if u can, even if another "Thinker's" thread has been started. Thanks peeps.

Very well said Kruti:-) Those were my thoughts exactly - except that I have not been able to write point by point and so diligently and in such an organized manner as you.😃 Let me also add that after my hubby finished residency, he took a break for a few months to look for the proper job he wanted.... He had my 100% support for that and yes, now if my company needs me to transfer now - he will be more than willing to look for a job in that place.

Good going Rama and Kruti, lovely analysis.

Could not have said it better Rama!! Kudos to you!!! Agree 200%. I feel the same way about my parents too - don't mind if they would come and stay with us forever (as with hubby's parents).

Originally posted by: chukkna

In older days, woman was given rest in her first 3 days of menstural period. She was supposed to be completely at rest and dont do any work, as many have different complications. But in later time that turned into a curse. There was a time and still in some traditional families, that she is not allowed to do puja or be a part of any function in those 3 days. This is the negetive effect of a decent custom. I totally disagree with the custom where a woman is not allowed to do the puja in the first 3 days. Though these things have been induced in my head for ages. You are allowed to do every thing, having fun, watching TV name it, but you are not allowed to worship GOD. That has no logic.

Same with dowry. Once it was started with the rich father sending some amenities to provide comfort for her daughter at a new place, cos those people were unaware of her needs, turned into a forceful thing and many women were burnt alive for this custom. That is insane. That was the uneducated era.

Awesome post, Chukks...on the above two points, here is my two cents:

Firstly, you are right about the period of rest that allowed a woman to rest to avoid complications. However there is a scientific background to this isolation. Not that in today's day and age it would be easy or practical to follow but i am expanding it here just for information's sake.

When a woman is in her period, she has a boost of hormones and her body is literally 'cleansing' of all the preparations it had made for a child - turns out that this is way more complicated than what most scientists have been able to identify because it involves every single gland in a woman's body. It is well known that if two or more women spend a lot of time together, their biological clocks start to coordinate. The reason behind this is that some of the hormones are meant to stimulate others around an individual...it would be embarassing to go into details here but i hope you all understand what i am trying to say. Also, since all the glands are at their active peaks during this short time every month, women are likely to be distracted, and add to that the physical discomfort. If you look at the ideals of 'satvik bhojan' you will identify that one of the most important ingredients are the way the food is prepared - there needs to be a complete focus on cooking and not on anything else. A menstrual woman is not likely to be able to focus in this manner. Same gets extended to the worship issue - it arises from the same concerns raised about anybody taking a bath before performing a puja. More than anything else, it is about hygiene. In modern day and age, we all have access to taking as many showers or baths as we need daily. But this was not true in the older times...hence the concern for "unclean" people attending the puja. Imagine being in your period and not being able to wash yourself for three-four days - it can be pretty nasally influential on others and thereby distracting! But i agree that this wouldnt hold true in today's day and age. I feel that given the modern concerns for hygiene and cleanliness (billion types of cleaning products) we should all accept that God has made all of us and hence cannot condemn our presence simply because of a biological aspect!!

On the subject of dowry - women were given stree-dhan by their parents so that if for any reason she became widowed or was disowned by her husband, she would not have to ask for any financial help or support. In fact the money and jewelry were considered to be sacrosanct by the in-laws family...they had no right over that money. And even if the girl wanted to donate it or give it to her in-laws, there were strict taboos and infamy to the in-laws household. However, it evolved over time to become what it has now - that the father gives the dowry to the in-laws. This twist is probably among the saddest ones in our cultural history!

Hope i did not go off on a tangent here...but just wanted to clarify and expand on Chukks thoughts. I just found out that my dissertation defense is going to be delayed by at least a month than what i expected so i am feeling too frustrated to work! 😭 Of course my wedding gets postponed also ANd my trip to India...sorry to post this here but it seems that all the people in this forum are people that i am close to and i found it better to just post this here than sending individual PMs.

I agree with you Kruti - especially the one on the hygene part and the Worshipping God part:-) My mom says the same too...

I hope things work out for you as far as your dissertation is concerned. Good luck!

hey guys (gals, ladies???) 😉
this is really cool stuff.....hope u don't mind but tomorrow, i would like to further contribute (if this isn't becoming a women-only discussion topic now)...all quite fascinating stuff u know... 😳

Originally posted by: innocentindian

hey guys (gals, ladies???) 😉
this is really cool stuff.....hope u don't mind but tomorrow, i would like to further contribute (if this isn't becoming a women-only discussion topic now)...all quite fascinating stuff u know... 😳

yup we are awaiting your response...with hands on keyboard 😉

As far as dowry goes.. I also think it is because in earlier times, a girl was not given a part of her father's property. They gave her stri-dhan.. but times have changed.
What also shocked me was my cousin was asked to continue working, as her in-laws were going to consider that as a perennial dowry !!! Luckily she did not get married into that family. Not that she did not want to work, but the angle at which they looked at the money just did not seem right.

Hi Rama, Things are definitely improving but in such a huge country like India - change does take time to become noticable. It is upto people like us to try to do what little we can and bring about any change.

As an aside, I think gender discrimination occurs all over the world. I did not know that until I actually came to the US. But of course I think we (Indian in general) can't do much here so we should try to do what we can in India as that as a society we definitely can help....