Naina: The Jump from Roof & GRACE - Page 2

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Dr.DonnyJohn thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#11

Originally posted by: ratnarao12

Hey Dr I am sure all ur questions will be answered in the coming episodes ...

There is nothing else I can say here...
I am sure every point of URS is going to be proved wrong

Remember the leads are telling their story ( 30 yrs almost )
And if Naina was dominant ,psychotic or selfish the relationship would not have lasted so long , they hv been so happy telling their story in such a beautiful manner


Hey Ratna,

Thanks for commenting but I want to state a certain thing very politely.

We all know that the show is inspired from the real life events of the producers Mr. Sumeet and Mrs. Sashi Mittal.

As they said, they have taken instances from their life story mixed with the writings of the writers to add soap elements.

For example, do you know for sure that the suicide thing was real? You would also recall the producer (Sashi Mittal) have themselves told there was NO REAL BET scenario in their real life. Bet was there in the show for one purpose only - to move the show story forward.

Let me clear it, whatever I write, I write because, the character of SAMEER & NAINA can be anyone. These are fictional characters. Sameer and Naina are not absolute and as a character you, me and other viewers will find those in our routine day.

Since, Sameer and Naina are inherently non-absolute, we are at a liberty to write and analyze. As what they think and what they say are written by writers and screen players.

(The moment you discuss about the Real Life Mittals, you, me or anyone here has no right to write anything about them as they are two definite known persons. Who are we to discuss anything about real life definite people and that is my issue with your comment.

You have to understand, all that is written here are for the non absolute fictional characters (Sameer & Naina) and also you will find many such characters in your experience. Their name may not be Sameer or Naina but they may have gone through similar experiences. All the discussion are limited to those no fixed fictional characters.

However, No one here has the right to either justify their points and contradict anyone else's points citing the dynamics between two definite known persons.

We are only discussing fiction (with the help of our POVs).

I hope I was able to state my point. Cheers! Btw, I like your detailed reply in one of mx previous posts. It was nice to write answer to that.
rock&roll thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#12
Hi Doc,Very very well written post.👏.Couldn't agree with you more
As you said

a) Naina would have watched Sameer jump off her roof and felt some regret later but she would have moved on...


b) if the husband is like Sameer (understanding, adjusting, loving and accommodating) Naina will take him for granted again doing as she feels like without giving a hoot about the other person's (Sameer's) reaction.

c)However,if her husband had been like Sharad she would have been meek obedient and submissive

d)when questioned about her insensitive and selfish beheviour she will use the weapon of harming herself.


Totally agree with each and every one of your points Doc.The points simply hit bulls eye👍🏼.

And Finally

e) Threatening with suicide is a form of abuse where one may hurt himself/herself but at the same time make the other person (who is truly in love and care for the other one) go through immense fear and stress. That for me is emotional abuse.

1) It is quite possible that you may not find even a single person in the forum who seconds this view.But I completely agree with you😊.In fact,in my recent post on imbalance in love,I also wanted to point out that threatening to commit suicide is a form of emotional abuse.But then,I simply let it go.So seeing this sentence in your post really surprised me..You are right.Threatening to commit suicide officially and legally comes under top few things listed out as emotional abuse .It is a defined form of emotional abuse and a big red flag in a relationship because it causes tremendous mental stress and trauma for the loved ones of the person who threatens this.

It does not matter whether or not the person who makes this threat is in a clear state of mind.Either ways,the person affected most is the other party(the one to whom the threat is made).The person who faces this threat(even once) lives in perpetual fear of the reaction of the other and is very often terrified to disagree with or convey the smallest of problems to the other person.The person who made the threat(to commit suicide) senses the power he/she wields over the other and thus starts a cycle of threats,tantrums and emotional abuse.Of course,this is in real life.

2) I agree with you when you say that people who love someone may at times(intentionally or unintentionally) hurt another.This happens in a fit of anger or jealousy.But the first thing that they do when they regain their senses is to apologize profusely to the person they love and promise to NEVER EVER do something like that again.But not Naina...She has till date not expressed guilt or regret for leaving Sameer.She also seems extremely pleased with her idea to commit suicide..So no regrets there either.This appears like clear insensitivity to the impact of her actions on the people who love her.

Now the irony is that she gets extremely rattled and ruffled if she even says anything that hurts Chachaji.But with Sameer,she continuously engages in new and unexpected hurtful behaviour and brushes them off with a wink or a smile.This shows that she is not completely insensitive or unaware of the impact of her actions.A person who is inherently insensitive will be the same towards everyone.Such a person will have low empathy levels and be completely unaware of how their actions affect others.But Naina is different.With Chachaji she is ultra sensitive.She knows how the smallest of her words can affect him or his reputation.This shows that she knows the impact that her actions have on people.This means that (very likely) she understands how much Sameer would have been affected by her actions.Then why doesn't she show it?My answer.If she is insensitive towards Chachaji ,it will have direct consequences for her. She is dependent on Chachaji and Chachaji's disapproval comes with consequences(padhai band,shaadi karado,sar jhuka diya etc etc).But what are the consequences for her if Sameer is affected by her actions?Answer:NONE.

She dumped Sameer because she knew that he loved her so much that he would never ever reveal the truth about their love story to her family or ANYONE ELSE.So the fear of getting defamed was out.

Sameer was not capable of threatening her with suicide.Naina took a gamble on this and she was right.The moment she retaliated to the chilli eating episode by eating chillies herself,Sameer backed off.So no fear of threat of self harm

Sameer would never harm her.So she did not fear for her safety

The maximum that Sameer could do was make her jealous(which he tried).But this a very small consequence for such a big action.

So,in short,Naina is not an insensitive person at all.Full credit to her.she is very sensitive and perceptive.But her sensitive side is revealed only if her actions can have a consequence that directly affects her.If the person doesn't have that kind of power over her or is too good and nice to use such power over her,then she cares too hoots for his emotions.No consequence = no sensitivity.

PS: I am analyzing this imagining that Naina is a real life character.And again,this is a hypothesis based on a deconstruction of past activities of a character.When things are happening in real time,people do not always think or act in such a conscious calculated way. I am definitely not trying to imply that all people(even in real life)act this way.

3)You are right when you say that characters like Naina (not all) are many times bound to dominate and manipulate the person who loves them unconditionally - the moment they feel that they have the emotional power over the person. In my opinion,a victim of abuse can react in one of two ways.The first is to develop huge empathy for people in a similar position (ie victims of abuse).Such people are inherently extremely empathetic people.This abnormal sense of empathy,ironically,makes them victims of abuse.However,they also show similar and extreme concern for the pain of others.Such people apologize for the most trivial things and feel guilty very easily(even when they are mot at fault).This makes them easy and ideal victims of abuse.

The second category,is the non empath.The victim has normal feelings of empathy towards people.(not extra empathetic).When subjected to abuse,they harbour feelings of strong resentment and anger towards their abuser.They also wallow in their helplessness and sob story.Since they cannot express this hurt,they internalize all these negative emotions.These emotions then come out in front of people over whom they wield power.

I am not saying that Naina belongs to the latter category.She is not so cruel.But she sways more towards the second category than the first.


4)You have a very valid point when you ask why Naina did not do a suicide drama for Sharad.The answer ,as you rightly pointed out,is that it will have no effect on her family.Just like Rakesh blackmailed Arjun and his family by suicide,Naina blackmails Sameer.She learns early on at home that (from her father)that threatening to commit suicide is an effective way to gain sympathy and get one's way.Nice parenting👏

5)I will never agree that what Naina did is a spur of the moment thing.Munna asked her three questions,"Main sar ke bal chalne ko bolunga to chalegi?","Fail hone bolunga to hogi?","Chat se koodne bolunga to koodegi?".Out of the three choices given by Munna Naina chooses the third one.She doesn't say "Yes" to question 1 because(presumably) she can't walk on her head.So that is ruled out.But she could fail in a subject right?Why didn't she say yes to that?Why does she choose to jump off the roof?Because jumping off the roof is dramatic and fetches instant results.Secondly,she knows very very well that Sameer will NEVER EVER let her die.So she will NEVER BE REQUIRED TO ACTUALLY EXECUTE THIS ACTION.To prove her love Naina Agrawal CHOOSES to do something that she knows is impossible.Impossible because Sameer will never let it happen.This only proves Sameer's love for her not vice versa.

Plus,if she really wanted to jump she would not have stood there ,one foot dangling in the air for half an hour trying to measure the physics of her fall.She would have jumped...Period...She stood there playing hopscotch because she had no intentions of jumping EVER.



Edited by rock&roll - 7 years ago
gugul thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#13
I feel if you all hate Naina so much then how are you ableto watch the show? I mean if we don't like the lead characters then we don't connect with the show... Then how are you able to bear this 30 mins of torture every weekday? And also spend so much time writing such long negativr posts about them !! I really wonder.
Don't take it otherwise but why I am saying this is in my case if I feel I don't like any characters in a show or how the show is progressing I stop watching that for some days. But I don't waste so much of my time analysing them. I feel they don't deserve it.
rock&roll thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#14

Originally posted by: gugul

I feel if you all hate Naina so much then how are you ableto watch the show? I mean if we don't like the lead characters then we don't connect with the show... Then how are you able to bear this 30 mins of torture every weekday? And also spend so much time writing such long negativr posts about them !! I really wonder.

Don't take it otherwise but why I am saying this is in my case if I feel I don't like any characters in a show or how the show is progressing I stop watching that for some days. But I don't waste so much of my time analysing them. I feel they don't deserve it.



Speaking for me,I watch the show because overall,I still like it,One lead character has been destroyed,but the rest still remain(for me).The show is something we all connected beautifully to(and still do).And that is precisely why people like me write long posts and voice our disappointment. We can only be disappointed with what we love.Voicing our disappointment makes us connect to like minded people through a wonderful free forum.The people voicing their disappointment make a decent percentage of the fan base of this show and religiously watch it adding to its trps.The day people stop voicing their opinions(be it disappointment or happiness) is the day the makers should get really worried because it means that a section of their fan base no longer connect to the show and have given up on the show.


You are right when you say that analyzing fictitious characters is a futile exercise.Similarly reading such a futile analysis is an even more futile exercise.

However, analyzing fictitious characters and understanding human emotions from different people's perspectives simply broadens our own thinking and understanding of people.That is why(I guess) this post was made..and that is why I make my posts too..We do not hate/like any character.We simply try to deconstruct their actions to get a better and broader insight into human nature and psychology😊
kar08 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#15
@Dr.Don- a very well written post with excellent and incisive analsyis. I dont know why we are not allowed to voice our disappointment in characters and their behaviour. I thought this was supposed to be a platform to express thoughts and feelings, not just continuously praise everything and everyone.
ratnarao12 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#16

Originally posted by: Dr.Don


Hey Ratna,

Thanks for commenting but I want to state a certain thing very politely.

We all know that the show is inspired from the real life events of the producers Mr. Sumeet and Mrs. Sashi Mittal.

As they said, they have taken instances from their life story mixed with the writings of the writers to add soap elements.

For example, do you know for sure that the suicide thing was real? You would also recall the producer (Sashi Mittal) have themselves told there was NO REAL BET scenario in their real life. Bet was there in the show for one purpose only - to move the show story forward.

Let me clear it, whatever I write, I write because, the character of SAMEER & NAINA can be anyone. These are fictional characters. Sameer and Naina are not absolute and as a character you, me and other viewers will find those in our routine day.

Since, Sameer and Naina are inherently non-absolute, we are at a liberty to write and analyze. As what they think and what they say are written by writers and screen players.

(The moment you discuss about the Real Life Mittals, you, me or anyone here has no right to write anything about them as they are two definite known persons. Who are we to discuss anything about real life definite people and that is my issue with your comment.

You have to understand, all that is written here are for the non absolute fictional characters (Sameer & Naina) and also you will find many such characters in your experience. Their name may not be Sameer or Naina but they may have gone through similar experiences. All the discussion are limited to those no fixed fictional characters.

However, No one here has the right to either justify their points and contradict anyone else's points citing the dynamics between two definite known persons.

We are only discussing fiction (with the help of our POVs).

I hope I was able to state my point. Cheers! Btw, I like your detailed reply in one of mx previous posts. It was nice to write answer to that.


Sorry no more comments
Let's just wait for episodes to air
Khushi_love thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#17
Hi 😊
I'm relatively new to the forum, but needed to post on this thread.
I was with Naina, till the mandir confession scene with Chachaji. She had seen her father attempt suicide in Shefali/Arjun case, n frankly at that point, n after her promise to her Chachaji, I couldn't see her being able to continue with Sameer. She had to back off at that point, as she could see no future for herself with Sameer anymore. So, instead of taking her relationship further n then backing off at a later stage, which would translate into an even bigger heartbreak for Sameer, she chose to break off with Sameer as soon as she could.

But ...but ...but ...I totally lost my connect with Naina, since she returned to college after the mandir confession n patch up with Sameer. Her entire demeanor was alien to Naina's core character...the riddles, body language, everything, post a traumatic breakup with Sameer/ then with Sharad, should have had a profound effect on Naina, for having had a great escape in life. Also, there should have been guilt for having subjected Sameer to this kind of heart break.

And the final nail in the coffin was, according to me, that instead of understanding Munna's true & valid concern for Sameer, post Sameer's breakup announcement, & approaching Munna for a heart to heart convo, she accused him of being jealous of her n Sameer. Her suicide attempt was the icing on the coffin, if I may say so 😆

Cvs have done severe character assassination of the sweet, humble, loving, friendly Naina. Damage control act is required...asap...else, I for one, am feeling alienated from Naina for the time being, while I was her staunch supporter all along, empathising with her thru out her journey hitherto...

Cvs, get your act together, please...😊
dilse99 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#18

Originally posted by: ---Khushi---

Hi😊

I'm relatively new to the forum, but needed to post on this thread.
I was with Naina, till the mandir confession scene with Chachaji. She had seen her father attempt suicide in Shefali/Arjun case, n frankly at that point, n after her promise to her Chachaji, I couldn't see her being able to continue with Sameer. She had to back off at that point, as she could see no future for herself with Sameer anymore. So, instead of taking her relationship further n then backing off at a later stage, which would translate into an even bigger heartbreak for Sameer, she chose to break off with Sameer as soon as she could.

But ...but ...but ...I totally lost my connect with Naina, since she returned to college after the mandir confession n patch up with Sameer. Her entire demeanor was alien to Naina's core character...the riddles, body language, everything, post a traumatic breakup with Sameer/ then with Sharad, should have had a profound effect on Naina, for having had a great escape in life. Also, there should have been guilt for having subjected Sameer to this kind of heart break.

<font color="#cc3300">And the final nail in the coffin was, according to me, that instead of understanding Munna's true & valid concern for Sameer, post Sameer's breakup announcement, & approaching Munna for a heart to heart convo, she accused him of being jealous of her n Sameer. Her suicide attempt was the icing on the coffin, if I may say so😆</font>

Cvs have done severe character assassination of the sweet, humble, loving, friendly Naina. Damage control act is required...asap...else, I for one, am feeling alienated from Naina for the time being, while I was her staunch supporter all along, empathising with her thru out her journey hitherto...

Cvs, get your act together, please...😊



My thoughts exactly! Very well explained. 👏
Khushi_love thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#19

Originally posted by: kar08

@Dr.Don- a very well written post with excellent and incisive analsyis. I dont know why we are not allowed to voice our disappointment in characters and their behaviour. I thought this was supposed to be a platform to express thoughts and feelings, not just continuously praise everything and everyone.


Exactly...this isn't a fan club...it's a discussion forum, n opposing views are bound to be there...n that is the entire beauty of this place...
Samaina_1990 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#20
Hey Doc! Kudos!
I admire the way you put forth your reasoning in every track you analyze!
I too, am in the minority or majority, I don't care what, who feels that the character of Naina has lost its charm.
Sameer fell in love with Naina, not because she was beautiful or rich, but because she mesmerized him with an inner beauty and selfless love that he never knew existed...the zeal with which she cared for him, prompted him to protect her no matter what...even before he realized what his heart longed for...he did a horrible mistake...no less than a crime. A crime, which could hardly be forgiven easily, but I give it to the CVs for making me awed with which the character of Sameer was redeemed and refined! Wow! I felt more inclined to Sameer over Naina, considering it was Naina I had related to since the beginning! Sameer made sure Naina realized he was repentent, reformed, cared for her and loved her honestly, truly!
He trusted her! I hated the Delhi track- that was a point, where I was about to stop watching the show, but persisted somehow. Even then, in the mawali company, he never thinks of being unfaithful to Naina. Yes, he sways and I was mad at him, but he realizes his folly, repents and strives to make things right. Yes, Sameer has his flaws, so does Naina. But I have never seen the kind of redemption Sameer goes through, for Naina.
She appears highly selfish to me nowadays. For the first time, I'm not watching the show regularly- barring an episode or two. I did not see the suicide episode too. The WU were too much for me to handle.
Munna's concerns are on point.
1. Naina has till now NOT admitted that Arjun stole the papers. She should have done that to Sameer at least long back, considering he was her future life partner- someone she trusts, loves and respects. Or so it seemed.
2. The psychology POV actually makes sense to me. Naina is actually submissive in front of her family or Sharad, but with Sameer, she pounces on each opportunity to dominate. She dictates the terms of relationships- if and when they should go out, where they should go out, if they should meet or talk on phone or not. She decides to break up or make up and takes it like a light-hearted fight.
I am not able to believe that a girl who could burn her fingers to understand the pain of her lover, could put him through such agony. The boy was about to renounce his life. He might have contemplated suicide and yes, if the roles were reversed, she may not have stopped him from jumping off the roof and later justified citing it was foolish on Sameer's part.
To be honest, Naina was the one to fall in love with Sameer. He was playing with her emotions at that time. She could have chosen to distance herself from him at that moment. Her family did not change overnight. Yet she didn't. Sameer was always a Maheshwari and Naina was always an Agarwal. I applauded Sameer for his outburst in the canteen.
And now when Munna questions her credibility (a very, very genuine concern- if chachaji hadn't said yes, or if he backs out later or other family members pressurize her...she would easily say she's a coward and back off leaving Sameer's life shattered), she has the gall to say that he is jealous and she can do anything for Sameer.
If it had been a real life scenario, as you pointed out, such actions of coercion can make the other person feel stifled, insecure and ultimately unhappy. No relationship can stand the lack of trust or respect. Naina treats Sameer like a puppet in her hands.
When she wishes, he should bow to her, at her beck and call. And when she doesn't, he should move away. What is more, he is not allowed to move on or date other women if he feels it helps.
Even after all this fiasco, if they had shown Naina regretting her actions, her lack of courage or getting the nerve to accede to her love for Sameer no matter what in front of her family, I would have accepted her. This woman however, is busy laughing and writing riddles on the board (she mentioned the dress Sameer gifted her lovingly which she let some random aunt take...she couldn't stand up for the dress too)...yet she mentions the dress in the riddle. She accuses Munna, and threatens suicide to show she can do anything for Sameer. I would have liked to see her go to Safari suit or O bai and confess that she is in love with Sameer Maheshwari and would marry no one but him.
Sameer need not have accepted her so easily...like Sameer proved the depth of his love post-bet, Naina needs to do so too now. Frankly, the vibes she gives are not the same. She doesn't seem or sound in love with Sameer anymore...not even concerned about him. As you said, her smile isn't cute. The character looks all farce!
I hope they do redeem her, but seeing the track record of CVs and mishandling of tracks since the past few months, I do not expect it.

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