Can marks measure the intellect? - Page 3

Originally posted by: chatbuster

cant also be confusing here between success in life, however one defines that, and intelligence. success comes in many ways, not all of which require someone to be intelligent, though intelligence is still one of the best attributes to have imo. that said, to the extent there is some correlation between success and intelligent people, there's likely even a stronger one imo between marks and intelligence, specifically because it removes some of the "noisy" success factors from the equation. we're not generally testing for interpersonal or leadership skills for example when we're doing tests.

Originally posted by: chatbuster

i think we can have this discussion when we can differentiate between "reflect" and "correlation". else we can end up with specific personal examples galore. also, there are marks and there are marks. if u wanted to talk narrowly about marks for reciting hindi syllables, we'd be having another discussion. as far as i am concerned, i thought we were talking about the broad range of studies, some of them requiring the kind of analytical/ symbolic thinking generally associated with intelligence.😉

In this case i am just trying to show that intelligence is not just about learning the whole book and getting good marks, it also includes your reflexive skills, remembering power, a sharp mind, analytical skills and how well you handle a situation

Do exam scores reflect intelligence.....well, to an extent YES!!! Are they the absolute measure of intelligence...not only NO but HELL NO!!!

AGREED!

Originally posted by: liza93

In this case i am just trying to show that intelligence is not just about learning the whole book

i can see the problem if all we're trying to do is rote-learn a book, or think that that is the best route to take to get good marks.😉

and getting good marks, it also includes your reflexive skills, remembering power, a sharp mind, analytical skills and how well you handle a situation

yes, but let's not lump intelligence into all the other skill-sets. how we handle a situation also perhaps requires good interpersonal skills, not all of which overlaps with intelligence, at least the non-EQ kinds.

but all said and done, wld we expect someone on average who is more intelligent to do more poorly on their tests than a stupider guy? possible, but unlikely. 😉i am talking about averages and correlation, not what is a sufficient condition in itself for someone to get good marks.

Originally posted by: liza93

Then let's talk generally, there are so many people today who, inspite of having a high class degree from a high class college, are unemployed. they keep knocking on doors and tearing off pages from the newspaper to find a suitable job. But the people who want to make it big, do it inspite and despite of everything, now i am not pulling out any rats from a hat.

havent we already covered this? education/ intelligence/ personality/ genes/ hard work- nothing is a guarantee of success as far as i know. just that all else equal, they are more likely to make someone successful/ get good grades. if u also notice, intelligence is one factor i've listed. by no means is it a necessary or only factor imo. people can have other traits in abundance that more than compensate for deficiencies in any area.

Originally posted by: chatbuster

yes, but let's not lump intelligence into all the other skill-sets. how we handle a situation also perhaps requires good interpersonal skills, not all of which overlaps with intelligence, at least the non-EQ kinds.

but all said and done, wld we expect someone on average who is more intelligent to do more poorly on their tests than a stupider guy? possible, but unlikely. 😉i am talking about averages and correlation, not what is a sufficient condition in itself for someone to get good marks.

maybe your interpretation of an intelligent person is different from mine and why are we only comparing the intelligence of two people only on the basis of their marks? like i said before, there can be various reasons for a person to get good marks-cheating, mugging up, partiallity from the teacher's side, sometimes question paper leaking also happens etc. We cannot deny the fact that today marks given are not always fair and square.

Taliking about "handling a situation thing", you often must ahve heard people saying, "it was a wise decision" or an "intelligent decsion". Maybe a person not getting good marks is capable of making a much more wiser decision.

Originally posted by: liza93

Well, everyone wants good marks and if he/she can't, then it's not because of lack of motivation because there is plenty due to the amount of competition nowadays(how many times to we make a resolution to top in the class when we come second or third?), it is because of lack of understanding of the subject for which the teacher should be responsible.

disagree on both fronts. level of motivation varies. kids might even start out with the same level of motivation, but some surely slacken along the way when it gets tough. second, most kids are in the same boat as far as teachers being good or bad are concerned. for the most part, i think the intelligent kids find a way to rise above difficulties and still do well. not always, but more likely than not to do so.

Originally posted by: chatbuster

disagree on both fronts. level of motivation varies. kids might even start out with the same level of motivation, but some surely slacken along the way when it gets tough. second, most kids are in the same boat as far as teachers being good or bad are concerned. for the most part, i think the intelligent kids find a way to rise above difficulties and still do well. not always, but more likely than not to do so.

i don't agree when you say that some students slacken out when it gets tough, because if children don't score well,they are half the time getting humiliated by teachers and fellow students make fun of them, in this situation many children resolute to show thir peers and teachers what they can do. In a situation when the parent pressure is also there, the children have no choice but to study. If what you are saying is true then gradually there would be no compwtition at all at any level. the feeling and desire to get at the top(specially when many people are against) is enough to motivate a person.

i did not understand the statement which i have highlighted, could you plz explain?

Originally posted by: liza93

i don't agree when you say that some students slacken out when it gets tough, because if children don't score well,they are half the time getting humiliated by teachers and fellow students make fun of them, in this situation many children resolute to show thir peers and teachers what they can do. In a situation when the parent pressure is also there, the children have no choice but to study. If what you are saying is true then gradually there would be no compwtition at all at any level. the feeling and desire to get at the top(specially when many people are against) is enough to motivate a person.

self-motivation is different from motivation due to fear. often lead to different behavior/ results. just because someone's paralyzed by fear of what his parents/ teachers might say to him does not mean he's studying all the time. he might think e is, but more often he's somewhere spending time trying to find novel ways to "show" their folks how hard they are studying and how they were running high temperature the day of the exams.😊

i did not understand the statement which i have highlighted, could you plz explain?

yes. imo, the common excuse someone has for not doing well is that they didnt have good teachers. well, we're all in the same boat that way- we've all had certain teachers who were not too good. yet some kids do find a way to learn and get good marks.

Originally posted by: chatbuster

self-motivation is different from motivation due to fear. often lead to different behavior/ results. just because someone's paralyzed by fear of what his parents/ teachers might say to him does not mean he's studying all the time. he might think e is, but more often he's somewhere spending time trying to find novel ways to "show" their folks how hard they are studying and how they were running high temperature the day of the exams.😊

yes. imo, the common excuse someone has for not doing well is that they didnt have good teachers. well, we're all in the same boat that way- we've all had certain teachers who were not too good. yet some kids do find a way to learn and get good marks.

If I say I like this post, would you put me on spot again and ask me to elaborate with a "😛"..........😆

Chalo, risk ley hee letey hain......I agree with you here😊

Would like to add one small point here. Liza mentioned something about partial teachers in one of her posts. I don't think partiality makes a huge difference in someone's grades. A point here or a point there at the max but really no significant difference. Additionally, if one is good in studies, pretty much all teachers love them anyways😊 Teachers' pets usually get the other side benefits...like getting away scott free for excessive talking in class or knocking that front tooth off that stupid little boy who just wouldn't quit bothering you😆...felt great wiping that idiotic grin off his face😆