The questionable subject of Dunki - Page 4

Aaand to make that reunion at the end seem like some veer zaara moment with 0 affect …namely coz 

Reasons why veer zaara stayed apart

- zaara was emotionally blackmailed by her family to marry someone else while her dad was sick …veer was falsely accused and arrested and he had to accept the charges to protect zaara ….veer was in jail for 20 years and zaara thought he was dead so couldn’t contact him even after her separation from her husband 

Fair enuff 

Now Reasons why manu and hardy stayed apart 

- manu wants to earn money in pounds to take back her ancestral home. She’s also pissed abt the British invading India 100s of years ago so now she will stay in England no matter what Hardy can go to hell for all the money he paid for the dunki route and all the times he’s saved her from dying …

Fin. 
🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Itna emotional love story 🥹😭😭😭😭

Edited by pathaka - 2 months ago

This movie was just showing  o n e  example of a small group of young people with not much of life experience and no high education hoping for a better life elsewhere.

You wrote about other examples which also showed wishes and dreams for another life elsewhere.

Although based on true events, the movie didn't want to be a documentary but just the story of a part of five people's life which could probably touch a chord (or some chords) in the viewer.

Originally posted by: pathaka

...

The film however, did not show why any of the characters having an  absolute need to go to England ….to use treacherous routes to get there. …for a family that they probably won’t even see again …to live in less than ideal conditions 

Even if they were fooled into thinking London will give them a good life, still makes no sense why they would refuse to go back to India with Hardy after the seeing the reality of it ….and insist on personal suffering 

The film didn’t justify any of this …and kept hacking one emotional monologue after another with barely any context or logic to it 

I partly agree with you as for a logical thinking person this makes no logic in real life. But this movie is a story and stories have their own logic.

In some of my posts before, I already mentioned the lack of knowledge (which goes hand in hand with the - deliberate - lack of proper consulting - in India and in London) and the false base ot their dreams.

We know that Hardy's 'absolute need' was his love and caring for Manu - nothing else.

We know that Manu's absolute need had been to right a wrong.

We know that Balli even with his begging and living in fear of the police could send money home. Before getting caught, they had learned about possibilities to earn money (of course hoping for better work).

We know that Manu got married, so there could have been a vague possibility for getting other life conditions after their decision to stay.

We've seen how Manu tries to defend her wish to stay in London when Hardy says they should return, that this life would be degrading. After all she left behind and had gone through she didn't want to let go of the illusion to make money and to return to get back the house.

What did they even know about the possibility to return? They learned it only when it was too late.

Hardy was the only one who had no problem in returning to India and making his life there ... knowing about Manu's love for him and as he had been a soldier (having pledged allegiance to the Indian flag) he didn't want to be a traitor to his country (and why should he?). If there had been another - decent - solution, he would have stayed. In addition he certainly thought that Manu would go with him.

To me, from the point of view of the characters, their acting was logical (not right, but understandable).

Originally posted by: Kyahikahoon

This is off topic but something I want to know.

There r people who r well educated and go to US, UK for further courses..get work visa.

But eventually they start motels, convenience stores, lifestyle stores or gas stations..

Not seen this with engineers but common in other fields. Was surprised when a PhD holder opened a convenience store. Kudos to them coz it's a lot of hardwork, specially when people manage things themselves without getting staff n helpers. But m curious what lures them to these fields after spending years studying a particular subject?

Is the money that good?

Just to add ..these were management graduates, associate professors with decent jobs in India 

For PhD holders, I think it’s the relaxed work life and just easy money if they invest in business rather than living entire life as a mad scientist 

Exactly, that's why what you call the "Veer Zaara moment" was brought into the movie...it was a reunion after (even) 25 years but not with the memories of the young beloved one they thought being dead/ living a married life only to get to know the contrary through the trial (before the reunion) ...oh, I loved Hardy's way to look at her in this kind of observing way...he was the one who did not lose hope that Manu would come some day and had even prepared things for that. But both didn't know anything about the other's life before the reunion (and the audience neither).

Originally posted by: Clochette

Exactly, that's why what you call the "Veer Zaara moment" was brought into the movie...it was a reunion after (even) 25 years but not with the memories of the young beloved one they thought being dead/ living a married life only to get to know the contrary through the trial (before the reunion) ...oh, I loved Hardy's way to look at her in this kind of observing way...he was the one who did not lose hope that Manu would come some day and had even prepared things for that. But both didn't know anything about the other's life before the reunion (and the audience neither).

Hardy and manu are not star crossed lovers torn apart by circumstances for their reunion to feel special 

Hardy loved her….she legit contributes nothing to their relationship except maybe defend him once in a classroom 

He on the other had saves her from dying, assault, pays for her trip at his own risk , risks his life several times for her , willing to stay back with her in London even in bad circumstance …and the one thing he asks her to do (to come back with him as it’s the best option for them), she dosent do …
Her lack of education and awareness cannot justify her refusal to respect his wish to move back to their country (after seeing it’s clearly the better option given the horrendous reality of illegal immigrants)

It’s not a naive character….its a character that is stubborn for no reason and has no sense of prority (the film dosent give us any further insight into her character and why she needs to go and stay in London, other than money which is a flimsy excuse ……)

The characters have enough gumption to grit their teeth through a journey so bad and a country so hostile, just for money …..heck they are even willing to denounce their home country from ever returning …for money 

 and aren’t willing to put the same grit to setup a basic business/ Aquire skills to get better jobs in their hometown / home country where they can easily speak the language and know the people  🤦‍♀️

These are just characters who think they are being great coz of self inflicted suffering 

Edited by pathaka - 2 months ago

Originally posted by: Kyahikahoon

This is off topic but something I want to know.

There r people who r well educated and go to US, UK for further courses..get work visa.

But eventually they start motels, convenience stores, lifestyle stores or gas stations..

Not seen this with engineers but common in other fields. Was surprised when a PhD holder opened a convenience store. Kudos to them coz it's a lot of hardwork, specially when people manage things themselves without getting staff n helpers. But m curious what lures them to these fields after spending years studying a particular subject?

Is the money that good?

Just to add ..these were management graduates, associate professors with decent jobs in India 

Nice question! I can answer based on the little idea i have from my friends who wish/didn’t wish to go abroad. 

Canada - Its not v difficult to get Canada’s PR so many people want to go there. I can share about three of my friends/friends of friends who had different perspective about this. One of them has done llm from a decent university in Delhi but he still left his high paying corporate lawyer job in Delhi to go to Canada. But he is a Sikh and has many family members well settled there so he kind of knew even if he doesn’t land a decent job he has people to help. And that’s what happened, for the longest time he only had small jobs. He was driving at the airport. So his motive was only a better lifestyle. Better infra. To settle in and become a citizen there . Canada is beautiful geographically and much more advanced than india in terms of life comforts. Then there was another one who is a dentist here. In Canada you cant do practice as a doctor unless you have a degree from their colleges. He was forced to do small jobs there so he came back as here he had a respectable job with good pay. To do an MD equivalent specialisation in Dentistry the fees there is 1CR. So that was unaffordable for him. Then third is a friend of friend from Patiala. She was so eager to go that her criterion of partner search on matrimonial apps was a person who had Canadian PR. Because she did not want to continue living in her hometown which is a small district. 

US/UK - I am not v sure if it’s legally easy to enter these countries because unlike Canada they dont need a lot of immigrants to do small jobs. The students their do these jobs as part time jobs. But yea the craze to move to these countries is very high amongst affluent business men/IT and other professionals because of the vast currency differences. A friend (java developer) moved to Germany for a project.. expenses taken care of by the company excluding rent for 10 months and his salary changed from 33 lpa to 75 lpa just because he is now paid in euros. 75 lpa is huge even from a metro city perspective in India. Even if he saved half the money he can buy a 1 bhk in Delhi/ NCR from the remaining 33 lakhs. 

Asia - This is new. many of my ex colleagues / friends are now moving to Asian countries for better careers. Bangkok, thailand, dubai, abu dhabi these are new IT/business hubs. They are near to India, have good salaries, good lifestyle , great tech and infra and also availability of indian food. Also the asian food pallette is very much prevalent in these countries. 

Originally posted by: _symphony

Spoiler alert! 

So now that the film is streaming on Netflix i finally had a chance to watch it and man what is wrong with the super talented man, Mr Hirani! While watching you cant help but feel bad as his brilliant film making skills are still so visibly present when he narrates a tale. But the movie is so haphazard it has no idea what message it is trying to convey. 

  Illegal immigration is a serious topic. And it’s not ok to brush serious issues with some lame comedy. In the entire film Hirani tries hard to generate sympathy for people who illegally cross borders and tries to force it as something that is morally correct which clearly it is not! Even if we leave the legal perspective, even logically it isn’t. In one scene Tapsee Pannu is shown lying in the British court that she has threat from her country to seek asylum and then when she comes back to india after 25 years, a patriotic song plays in the background. Lol! The other side characters do the same and later when they are returning to India, they spit at their British bosses. At that point they all seem like a bunch of super selfish people who have no sense of loyalty towards anyone they are just loyal to some money. And the funnier part is none of them apart from Tapsee pannu has any serious reason to go to London. Even when they see their friend living in pathetic condition in London they refuse ro come back. 

While the issue of illegal immigration is serious and huge, in no way you can have a justification for it. Yes there can be discussion about how immigrants must be treated but not about if it’s correct or not. 

The movie again and again tries to convey that getting opportunities abroad is only for the rich but is that true? When it itself shows that one way to go abroad is the IELTS  for which none of them seriously studies. Also Vicky Kaushal’s character is denied visa even though he just wants to go for a day.. Umm anyone heard about tourist visa? 

All the characters in the film do lame ass shit and then try to justify it in the name of ‘we are trying to earn money for our family’ while none of their family members are ever shown in dire need of money lol

Wonder what raju hirani was thinking while making this film! There have been other films that revolved around illegal immigration like Bajrangi bhaijan or Shiddat but it seemed so much justified there because of the way the circumstances of the protagonists were shown. But here it made no sense.

 There is a reason migration laws are in place and one emotionally charged non sensical film cant question it. Of course migrating to rich countries like the US or UK is more for the well to do folks but so many countries with equally good opportunities offer easier visas. 

Another nonsensical movie SRK acted in. Not surprising to me after he *ed in MNIK. Useless actor ka kyaaa Agee boley 

glad you shared this view. As I don’t watch his movies and certainly not these ones anymore .. plus who has time to see his flop movies 

Edited by KJasoosChulbulP - 2 months ago

Originally posted by: NimbuMirchi

This is the trend mostly with Gujaratis. They will leave high paying IT job to open a liquor store. 

For one, Gujaratis dhandho genes kick in. There’s that eternal dhandho j karvano ne yar. Aapde Khud aapda boss. 
They make money through jobs and then switch to investment into businesses. 
Motel or store, you hire a workforce to manage different tasks. 
9-5 job binds you for whole day - whole week. 
With the liquor store - you get away couple hours and your employees can manage. Makes it easy to manage kids school and classes schedules. 
Plus you invest in Motels, Liquor stores, Convenient store, you make good money. Both husband and wife don’t have to work. One business and they take turn to go during different hours of the day. Helps you balance work, home and kids.

They make amazing progress as entrepreneurs - people who chose this route. 

There is no restriction on IT / Doctrs / Engineers choosing this path and wrong to assume their education does not help them. Their discipline. Knowledge. Critical thinking. Hard work and many other skills are used in being an entrepreneur as well. 

I love that you mentioned “balance work , home and kids”. I recently spoke to a single parent choosing realtor track to help raise their kids balancing this. 

Originally posted by: Clochette

Ha ha...no, we saw the same movie, only our perception/view differs

I don't think that the movie really questions the importance of visa in our times, but tries to incite discussion about ways to change the getting-a-visa options.

Dunki shows very clearly that the current options are prone to either getting people exploited or making them doing illegal things - both objectionable.

It is a kind of criticism pointing to the inflexibility of current Visa-laws and to the lack of proper consulting and finding of other solutions.

I remember that in december after Dunki's release, we had discussions here about the laws.

As for Manu and her two friends earning money through working in the town, it had been shown that they had work, right at the beginning ... Sukhi obviously also earned money as he would have been capable to pay one flight for him to London and one back for both of them. (I don't know why he didn't try with a tourist visa...maybe there was a reason why that wouldn't have worked)...Hardy hadn't planned to stay, he just wanted to give back the tape recorder.

 

The problem is the things you are mentioning are never shown in the film. Manu is shown doing a job at a dhaba but nowhere the director establishes that she is trying to get a better job but failing. None of them have any educational aspirations nor any financial aspirations. Leave that they dont even know what kind of jobs their neighbours who went to London are doing. There’s this movie, Aa ab laut chalen where just within 10 mins into the movie it gets so well narrated how Akshay Khanna’s character thinks if he goes to the US his financial problems will get resolved as a neighbour’s son is living there and his mom keeps on raving about his luxurious life there. If a movie that came 20+ years ago could establish so well why cant this movie? Nobody gives any background here. Who wants to do what and why.. everything is left to the assumption of the audience. And then they suddenly start criticising the IELTS, the visa law, the immigration law. 

Edited by _symphony - 2 months ago