Crisp Bytes SC - 26th July 13 - Page 11

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-Ivy- thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
Smrth Bhai,

On the outset, an apology if it came as such, but my observations re: Saras carried no negative connotations. Personally, and as noted, I thought the press conference was on another level altogether - the soul level. Hence "highjacked" and "new extreme" were more written in 'indulgence' of character traits than anything else. Kind of like an "Oh, Saras!", in an indulgent vein. And also to show how much this apology means to him - "Mother of all Mea Culpa's" 😳

I personally don't dislike the character in this phase... But, just doing a head-count around, the "knee-jerk" verdicts seemed to favor Kumud... And for the average viewer (not to sound elitist), but "knee-jerk" is the only verdict these characters are going to get, mostly. Hence started with an exposition of episode "affect" (subjective!) on viewers... Many pardons if intent fell astray in the message =)

And yes, the "Aap"... Funny how a little term can get so loaded in the "right" circs
Edited by IdiotViewer - 12 years ago
smrth thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: IdiotViewer

Smrth Bhai,

On the outset, an apology if it came as such, but my observations re: Saras carried no negative connotations. Personally, and as noted, I thought the press conference was on another level altogether - the soul level. Hence "highjacked" and "new extreme" were more written in 'indulgence' of character traits than anything else. Kind of like an "Oh, Saras!", in an indulgent vein. And also to show how much this apology means to him - "Mother of all Mea Culpa's" 😳

I personally don't dislike the character in this phase... But, just doing a head-count around, the "knee-jerk" verdicts seemed to favor Kumud... And for the average viewer (not to sound elitist), but "knee-jerk" is the only verdict these characters are going to get, mostly. Hence started with an exposition of episode "affect" (subjective!) on viewers... Many pardons if intent fell astray in the message =)

And yes, the "Aap"... Funny how a little term can get so loaded in the "right" circs

Don't say this I Viewer please. I was just amazed at perfectness in your analysis on 'subjectivity'. You are in no way 'negatively connoting' in the least. I just concurred your analysis. Expressed indecisiveness on casting the vote and stated the reasons. You have such a powerful draw! as for 'knee- jerk' and 'fan posts' I have my own plumb- 3G! I generally avoid any reactions.😆
But 'apology'? For what? Retract it please.
Edited by smrth - 12 years ago
-Ivy- thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
Smrth Bhai, read your words again... Now, apologies for "knee-jerk" reaction to your post... And this I won't retract 😛 I fully transfer blame to sleep deprivation and the early AM hours, but... =)

Oh I don't mean head count around forum... But people off-line... All across the board on age-range. They championed K. And on a level, even if they may retract later (a given), for current episode tho, in majority eyes, S lost

😕
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: smrth


@ bold,

"Super-impression" was the perspective, I made my lens then .

If we are to consider the overt or semantics only, then why BD as a politician would say, "hamari vajah se aapki bhavnaon ko thes pahunchi he ( his doing? Or flood?) " ham ne Vishvaas ghat nahi kiya he" "hum to jald se jald aap tak pahunch ke nukshaan ko rokna chahete the ( flood?)" "aap parishad chhod kar jaa sakte he ( who? Flood affected people? But these are pressmen)... Watch again, you may permit the 'application'. 😊

What I meant to say was that if you replace the aap and hum with tum and main, the speech which BD was giving will be totally out of place. Not questioning the content of the speech. And wasn't BD anyways talking to people indirectly via pressmen. The speech was not intended for pressmen only.
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: IdiotViewer

Smrth Bhai, read your words again... Now, apologies for "knee-jerk" reaction to your post... And this I won't retract 😛 I fully transfer blame to sleep deprivation and the early AM hours, but... =)

Oh I don't mean head count around forum... But people off-line... All across the board on age-range. They championed K. And on a level, even if they may retract later (a given), for current episode tho, in majority eyes, S lost

😕


A thought occurred- Just what impact this novel must have left on psyche of past generations in Gujarat, even when it already had lost its au currency in read list long since ( I must be such an anomaly!); There might not be a single family clan in Gujarat where you would not find a single 'Kumud' or 'Kusum' in their extended list. I can count 4 kusums and 2 Kumuds as aunts or great aunts in the extended family. I am yet to come across a single 'Saraswatichandra'. Not just in family, but anywhere! 'Difticult' or 'ease' of elocution alone can not account, if we consider character's prominence as counterpart of the examples given above and when we do have some 'difficult' occurrences like 'Vishrut Yash' or 'Harsh Vardhan' in existence.
This character was not accepted too warmly even then. You are right. SLB has a huge task to make it palatable. And he succeeds. A big contribution- GR.👏

Edited by smrth - 12 years ago
psam4 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Infofan

@ All, thank you for the warm welcome and kind words. I am back but time constraints and other commitments do not permit me to post like I used to just yet.

In the meantime catching up on episodes and posts. CB has awesome new members.

@ Santhi, Twila ( did I forget anyone) hi and welcome. Its always a pleasure to read discussions on this thread.

@ Psam4 - thanks dear. I have no clue which post you are referring to but I do remember making a post way back on LN being the root cause of Samud problems 😳 😳

great minds think alike😉 just kidding I haven't read your post on ln.arshiji pointed everyone responsible for kumud's condition I thought ln is the real culprit so made a post on him.
Arshics thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: smrth


A thought occurred- Just what impact this novel must have left on psyche of past generations in Gujarat, even when it already had lost its au currency in read list long since ( I must be such an anomaly!); There might not be a single family clan in Gujarat where you would not find a single 'Kumud' or 'Kusum' in their extended list. I can count 4 kusums and 2 Kumuds as aunts or great aunts in the extended family. I am yet to come across a single 'Saraswatichandra'. Not just in family, but anywhere! 'Difticult' or 'ease' of elocution alone can not account, if we consider character's prominence as counterpart of the examples given above and when we do have some 'difficult' occurrences like 'Vishrut Yash' or 'Harsh Vardhan' in existence.
This character was not accepted too warmly even then. You are right. SLB has a huge task to make it palatable. And he succeeds. A big contribution- GR.👏


I think its not only due to GR, the character has been written contemporary. There is a conscious effort to create a white Saras and not the weak gray of the original. Hence his quick realization and return, his traumatic past etc, so while gr is doing a great job, sc has been recreated stronger brighter whiter this time
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: arshicritic


I think its not only due to GR, the character has been written contemporary. There is a conscious effort to create a white Saras and not the weak gray of the original. Hence his quick realization and return, his traumatic past etc, so while gr is doing a great job, sc has been recreated stronger brighter whiter this time


@bold what a truly novel way to describe the character attributes, Arshi ji... And so humorous too 😆 Adore the play with words you do, sometimes! =)
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Posted: 12 years ago
Have just gone through all recent posts... Was following the discussion as it was occuring but was too fatigued to jump in or even take import of points of debate, so I resisted... Was only when I thought (erroneously) that smrth bhai misread my intent, then was compelled to give a disclaimer... I jumped the gun then, but seeing prevailing debates, if this S vs K unleashed monster is even indirectly the result of my exposition on subjective affect on viewers, I truly tender an apology...

Seeing as I greatly lack Hgg bhai's neat precision with analogies, I'm most definitely going to make a mess of this... However, I will persist... Because I think that is the need of the hour...

Where I stand on this matter is that it is too early to take a side. On one hand, Kumud is still operating and drawing strengths from her false beliefs... On the other, Saras is still unaware of the full heartwrenching extent of her predicament. Surrounding these two, are the Desai's still holding on to misplaced hope about Pramad. The events have been set into motion, but it is not even half-time yet. The lead characters optics, are mostly limited to each other... Kumud does, at times, but Saras, he is not even thinking of the greater picture yet. He needs to, and he needs to judged on his actions, and mis-actions... Not while we're waiting for him to act, and draw up conclusions due to boredom with the fact. Because in his own way, Saras too has been trying... Regrettably, employing his energies in counter-productive pursuits, yes, but trying all the same. With whatever information that has been made available to him. The audiences are the only party with full knowledge of situations, the character optics are limited. We are highest on the heirarchy, hence, we are more likely to adopt God's perspective. But at the same, we ought not to forget the character limitations; they have not yet been made privy to all for a reason. And by that same token, so have we been handed complete knowledge of events, so that we anticipate how the characters navigate this quagmire of mis-truths, deceptions, assumptions and selfish motivations. We know the truth will out, but it is the waiting, which kills us.

Regarding subjective affect... Think of Kumud and Saras as opposite sides of a see-saw. Think of all other characters (Dhan's, Desai's etc) as sacks of sand. Each episode, since the Saras-Kumud re-meeting, the sacks of sand have been continuously shifting on the see-saw. For example, after the last episode... The see-saw might appear as such: Kumud (down) because of BD, Pramad, Saras, all "doing wrong by her", Saras (up) because only Kumud is on the other side, all else excepting Pramad, are "Team Saras". But, this status quo varies each episode... Right now, K is down, being assailed emotionally and viscerally by all sides, so she gets the sympathy votes. At the end of the episode, you feel for her, more strongly... Tomorrow, if Saras gets beaten black and blue by P's hired goons, he will affectively command viewers allegiance too... K's mental anguish will not be able to hold fort in front of S' physical injuries. Our hearts will go out to him, especially if his injuries were in service of protecting Kumud. It is the visceral which affects and impacts, more than the subtle.

Right now, Saras too is being weighed down by elements from the larger picture (LN's mistreatment, Gumaan's strategies, the Desai's misconceptions), but that is not at forefront of the narrative, so we forget. K's plight, "by virtue of Saras" (direct or indirect) is what we're getting to see and therefore that is what we are basing our judgements on. Once Gumaan, LN and Umess, come back into the picture (the original culprits) both Saras and Kumud will move to the same side of the see-saw and in that phase, their side of the see-saw may be down, but viewers will make sure that the two are placed on nothing less than pink, fluffy clouds where allegiances are concerned.

Hgg bhai said it best, this is akin to a Greek tragedy. Nothing is black and white. We've moved on from absolutes, from the innocence of love, into the grey zone, where that love now is deemed wrong by conventional benchmarks. Both Saras and Kumud have moved on from being pristine white, and so has their love. It is only fair thus, that the characters and their motivations will have imbibed some hues of the despondent, drastic, indeterminate stage they are currently in. More than anything else, in the "grey zone", it is viewers emotions that gets manipulated without respite. Because by default, we end up looking for either a "hero" or a "victim"... We crave for someone to champion and to deride. But here's the kicker... In characters which are flawed, there can never exist a pure essence of either.

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Posted: 12 years ago
[QUOTE=IdiotViewer]Have just gone through all recent posts... Was following the discussion as it was occuring but was too fatigued to jump in or even take import of points of debate, so I resisted... Was only when I thought (erroneously) that smrth bhai misread my intent, then was compelled to give a disclaimer... I jumped the gun then, but seeing prevailing debates, if this S vs K unleashed monster is even indirectly the result of my exposition on subjective affect on viewers, I truly tender an apology...

[/QUOTE/]

Our enjoyment of any story is based on how well we can relate to characters and circumstances. The makers cannot afford to depict lead characters fully black, there lies the avenue for see sawing.
In fact I would thank you for making me think deeper on the aspect of taking sides.

My intention was to appreciate Saras for where he is trying to reach. In that respect I feel for him, I take his side.

@Smrth: intrigued to know that SC is not the preferred name in the community, could it be because it was tragical from his perspective rather than dislike.He suffered the most. His inner guilt was on larger scale than the abuse which Kumud had to physically endure.
Post renunciation, Kumud had the upper hand and decided their combined fate. She got to choose.

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