Crisp Bytes SC - 12th July 13 - Page 14

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SahirsBeard thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Adiani

For all the CB team, I can only thank my stars for choosing to watch this show, and coming across this forum.


This has transported me to my high school Sanskrit teachers and their interpretation of great works in Sanskrit. How I'm discovering now, that choosing a Science field what all I've missed from the literary world and stimulating discussions of this sort.

@Hgg, just for the discussion,
' narcissism' is used with negative connotation, 'self obsessed', they are incapable of thinking about other's well being, which Kumud is clearly not. I could agree she is someone with high self esteem..which can border onto 'ghamand' if she periodically doesn't keep it in check.

There is a deviation here, of her circumstances of choosing to marry Pramad from original, my interpretation at this was.. She took the decision, the choice would be to 'stay unmarried' or 'face the challenge, face whatever life is throwing at you'. One can never predict the consequences of any decision. Being indecisive is not her trait. Taking a challenging path is what Kumud would do..

Here I find, CB team do have much better interpretation and explanation, each sounding right in its own way.. That is the beauty of the forum.


First of all, I would like to let everyone know just how speechless I am... These discussions are so insightful and amazing... šŸ‘ Arshi, if it wasn't for your amazing CB's consistently penned so luxuriously, yet so simply, every single day, I would perhaps never have the opportunity to have such an enriching experience from such a scholarly platform. Thank you so much, once again, dear friend. 😳

And our fellow CB writers, Hgg-bhai, Smrth-bhai, IdiotViewer (I find your name a complete, paradox, good friend šŸ˜†) Happychappy, Twila, Vaishali, and anyone else I might have missed-my apologies. You all abled people know who you are... what would I do without your daily insights as well. I get a joy from your philosophies that is almost separate from the show. Fabulous, fabulous work. šŸ‘

Adlani... beautiful insights. I just have one thing I would like to add to your marvellous work, to simply add my own musings to your splendour.

@ Bold: Kumud had also taken a challenging path which was Saras before she had even started to fall in love with him. Coming back to I-Viewer's musings, it is clear that to Kumud, Saras had displayed the nature of a leader (or as I-Viewer brilliantly described, "an Alpha,") through things such as by taking the responsibility of the gau hatya.
Fast forwarding a bit, to where Badi Maa had requested Kumud to transform Saras into a man who hid from the shadows, rather than made them his companion, and we see just how much she had tried and tried again to fulfill her Badi Maa's wish. Saras was indeed a challenge to her, because his past was so dark, and his personal demons, perhaps darker.

And we can see that it was exceedingly hard for Kumud to bring him to the light, because of the many confrontations between the two, and the many emotional breakdowns one or the other had. This challenging path she took inevitably gave her an opportunity to seek her soulmate, however, once she was shunned again, also triggered her to take this next challenge that was "to face whatever life was throwing at her", as you say, dear Adlani. 😊

Perhaps then, Kumud looked at Saras as not a challenge, but an obstacle of sorts, for a lack of a better word. It was clear to her that he had, of sort, crawled back into his own shell, made the shadows his companion, and all together, rather than showing his strength, displayed his weaknesses. This was a challenge Kumud clearly could not tackle in such a short amount of time, and perhaps, is why she moved into another which would cater to her immediate needs?
Indeed, what an unfortunate situation, for it to some extent, depends on power struggle.
Edited by veera25 - 12 years ago
hotdogg thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: happychappy


Arrey, dont put me with these three, Arshi - please! 😃

They're a class apart, really...šŸ‘




😳

arshi / happychappy & all ...speaking for myself...all of you are too kind...

I can only quote Newton:
"If I have seen further it is by standing on ye shoulders of Giants."

I feel the CB thread attracts a diverse set of thinkers, since this is now a forum where you can freely express your views.

This mutual and democratic exchange of ideas and culture of respect for different POVs, most times brings out hidden / unobserved nuances of the show and triggers a thought process...

And as Iviewer has said...the source is a literary work..so an opportunity for deeper exploration is pretty much built into the works..

Bottom-line...cannot be done without assimilation of everyone's contribution...

šŸ‘šŸ¼



hotdogg thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Adiani

For all the CB team, I can only thank my stars for choosing to watch this show, and coming across this forum.


This has transported me to my high school Sanskrit teachers and their interpretation of great works in Sanskrit. How I'm discovering now, that choosing a Science field what all I've missed from the literary world and stimulating discussions of this sort.

@Hgg, just for the discussion,
' narcissism' is used with negative connotation, 'self obsessed', they are incapable of thinking about other's well being, which Kumud is clearly not. I could agree she is someone with high self esteem..which can border onto 'ghamand' if she periodically doesn't keep it in check.

There is a deviation here, of her circumstances of choosing to marry Pramad from original, my interpretation at this was.. She took the decision, the choice would be to 'stay unmarried' or 'face the challenge, face whatever life is throwing at you'. One can never predict the consequences of any decision. Being indecisive is not her trait. Taking a challenging path is what Kumud would do..

Here I find, CB team do have much better interpretation and explanation, each sounding right in its own way.. That is the beauty of the forum.



agree adiani..

I was writing this from a phone and did not mean narcissism in the clinical sense which is a very narrow definition...

what I meant to convey was that high self-esteem and the environment she grew up in tended to make her exhibit the narcissistic tendencies...meaning she is suffering from the condition NOT to the extent she becomes totally self-obsessed, but STILL actually exhibits some traits while being entirely normal...

but this being a dominant trait is what making her an alpha female...

these traits being in bold below (I have picked these from wikipedia, which captures these nicely):
- An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges
- Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
- Difficulty with empathy
- Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults
- Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt
- Haughty body language
- Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply)
- Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse)
- Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
- Pretending to be more important than they really are
- Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements
- Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
- Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
- Denial of remorse and gratitude

A limited edition of this trait is necessarily not a bad thing...most CEOs and high profile people we see in real life too are narcissistic to a certain degree...proving that you need some of this characteristic to become a leader and not a follower...how else will you remould the world in your vision?




Edited by hotdogg - 12 years ago
-Ivy- thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
@Hgg I cannot second you enough... This back and forth is really what keeps the momentum going. I'm reminded of that each time I make a post on this CB... That my ideas and interpretations are going to be enriched further... I eagerly anticipate that and everytime I leave, I come back to something new, better and deeper. So cheers to the entire CB Team and to Arshi... For tirelessly and generously providing the thought-seeds to kickstart the most stimulating of discussions each thread šŸ‘

Hgg, referring to your "ramble"... If that was what you consider one, than may I earnestly urge you to shower countless rambles upon us... My friend, that was brilliant! A very effective fusing of theory and application... And a yet another building block for my purposes =) Kumud as Alpha Female and Saras as the Beta Male... Conventional thinking won't lean that way and for that I commend you. At the least, I was thinking, that when it comes to Kumud and Saras, it is better to tear down all boxes, do away with all the notions and just let the characters breathe... The examples that you listed, I'm positive that in coming days, other examples will join, as you say, the roles will become reversed... She the Beta, and he the Alpha. But still their innate essence will not be entirely forfeited (or so I truly hope)... As you've again pointed out, the roots lie in their respective childhoods... Now, will these two individuals ever be able to come out of that state... For one, an angaan filled with love and for another a lake full of demons. Maybe momentarily, yes, but irrevocably? I leave that up to more clarity and debate... Are humans ever able to lose their core essences permanently? And imbibe another with as much conviction and fidelity? The 'dah sanskar' et al, the 'finality' lost out to the ehsaas... Actions and resolve go one way, but the senses, the heart and the imprint on the soul, quite another...
Edited by IdiotViewer - 12 years ago
happychappy thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
All the discussion about Kumud and Saras, is turning out to be fascinating...😃

Just wanted to add a foot-note on Dugba and Kumari. If I understand right these characters did not have the heft in the novel that Team SLB has given to them... Both of them deeply love Saras and Kumud, but have been unwittingly instrumental in causing them pain and ultimately separation...

I thought it very poignant when Dugba asks for Kumud's forgiveness... It ws so sad, she has so much to apologise for ---- for encouraging Kumud to dream of Saras, for herself trusting Saras against her first instincts, for the as-yet-unrealised crime of starving Kumari of love thus forcing her into looking for it elsewhere - (as in that inspector-rascal??!)

Kumari herself who was most looking forward to S&K wedding, through her botched elopement with the rascal, unwittingly caused Saras enemies he could have done without (and we got that fight-scene we could have done without!) - never mind that Sahas Rai is the most unconvincing character in the whole show, even beating Umess hands down in that race, with Kusum coming in at second runners-up! If and when Kumari finds out about her role in the tragedy she will be devastated...

For all that Kumari's role has been well-written, the CV's seem to have outsourced Kusum's dialog to some really ham-fisted person - wonder why that is so? Her lines always seem to stick out waving little red flags? Maybe there's something we cant see, maybe they just dont know what to do with her, now that (hopefully, hopefully, ...) she wont be required in the denouement... (SLB, watch out 😔 )
Edited by happychappy - 12 years ago
smrth thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Adiani

For all the CB team, I can only thank my stars for choosing to watch this show, and coming across this forum.


This has transported me to my high school Sanskrit teachers and their interpretation of great works in Sanskrit. How I'm discovering now, that choosing a Science field what all I've missed from the literary world and stimulating discussions of this sort.

@adiani,
That's an intuitively apt reference you made- The novel is so full of Sanskrit citations! So many famous sources; Uttar Ramayan, Abhigyan Shakuntalam, Kiratarjunam...I am really waiting for someone knowledgable, from whom I can understand correct nuances and meaning of the work. Routine, cursory read such as mine can never grasp the true genius, I know...
Recently, I came across an article.G.M.T had good inspiration from Kalidas's Meghdoot- 'a message litany from a cast out Yaksha to his consort in far away Alkapuri'. Nuances maintained in SC!😲
happychappy thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: IdiotViewer

...

At the least, I was thinking, that when it comes to Kumud and Saras, it is better to tear down all boxes, do away with all the notions and just let the characters breathe... The examples that you listed, I'm positive that in coming days, other examples will join, as you say, the roles will become reversed... She the Beta, and he the Alpha. But still their innate essence will not be entirely forfeited (or so I truly hope)...

As you've again pointed out, the roots lie in their respective childhoods... Now, will these two individuals ever be able to come out of that state... For one, an angaan filled with love and for another a lake full of demons. Maybe momentarily, yes, but irrevocably? I leave that up to more clarity and debate... Are humans ever able to lose their core essences permanently? And imbibe another with as much conviction and fidelity? The 'dah sanskar' et al, the 'finality' lost out to the ehsaas... Actions and resolve go one way, but the senses, the heart and the imprint on the soul, quite another...



i-Viewer, your post makes me wish there was a Super Like button to click on.
Perhaps, IF should consider it!!! I have OCD about quoting en bloc and messing up the pages! šŸ˜›
Edited by happychappy - 12 years ago
Adiani thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
@smrth, that was spooky, I was thinking of 'meghadoota', the intensity of whatever few verses I was taught. I can see why!! Kudos to my lovely teachers. And one more from Raghuvansha 'vagarthaviva'.. Entwined, inseparable like word and its meaning, hey Lord Shiva and Parvathi, bless me for word and meaning. Reminded me of Samud.

@Hgg, I find it difficult to relate terminology of personality disorders to a highly liked person like Kumud, that is just me.. Thank you all for this wonderful thought provoking discussions. I read Jenny's interview, Kumud is going to get subdued..that is turning 'beta', I probably can relate to it and bear with it ..with team CB's help.
smrth thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: IdiotViewer

@Hgg I cannot second you enough... This back and forth is really what keeps the momentum going. I'm reminded of that each time I make a post on this CB... That my ideas and interpretations are going to be enriched further... I eagerly anticipate that and everytime I leave, I come back to something new, better and deeper. So cheers to the entire CB Team and to Arshi... For tirelessly and generously providing the thought-seeds to kickstart the most stimulating of discussions each thread šŸ‘


Hgg, referring to your "ramble"... If that was what you consider one, than may I earnestly urge you to shower countless rambles upon us... My friend, that was brilliant! A very effective fusing of theory and application... And a yet another building block for my purposes =) Kumud as Alpha Female and Saras as the Beta Male... Conventional thinking won't lean that way and for that I commend you. At the least, I was thinking, that when it comes to Kumud and Saras, it is better to tear down all boxes, do away with all the notions and just let the characters breathe... The examples that you listed, I'm positive that in coming days, other examples will join, as you say, the roles will become reversed... She the Beta, and he the Alpha. But still their innate essence will not be entirely forfeited (or so I truly hope)... As you've again pointed out, the roots lie in their respective childhoods... Now, will these two individuals ever be able to come out of that state... For one, an angaan filled with love and for another a lake full of demons. Maybe momentarily, yes, but irrevocably? I leave that up to more clarity and debate... Are humans ever able to lose their core essences permanently? And imbibe another with as much conviction and fidelity? The 'dah sanskar' et al, the 'finality' lost out to the ehsaas... Actions and resolve go one way, but the senses, the heart and the imprint on the soul, quite another...

@ can not resist citing the source from which that dialogue was adapted as it involves a clue/basic mould- how the Author has penned his Kumud throughout in the book (and because they are preserving the base aspects of the source here too)...
This also answers partly (at least in the book) your question in red; how she was failing to carry out the 'resolve' and hence continuously miserable with the self (her 'real' deaths by thousand cuts- and not physical abuses she suffered)...

GMT in the Book

" nadi na nirmal jal ma aakash nu pratibimb anivarya atyajaya thai pade tem Saraswatichandra na antahkaran nu pratibimb nirdosh kanya ni mansik srushti ma sampurna, apratihat ane sarvakalin avakaash paami gayu..."

crudely-

Just as the broad, all binding Sky imprints its ceaseless reflection on crystal waters of a river- intact, likewise, Sarsawatichandra's exquisite mind and person has stamped its integral, entire, abiding print on innocent Maiden's consciousness- inevitably, everlastingly, immutably.

Edited by smrth - 12 years ago
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Posted: 12 years ago
smrth, I really cannot thank you enough for these priceless source-nuggets, my friend... what beauty and eloquence those verses possess... And equal gratitude to you for being kind enough to translate... "crude" they are most definitely not! Rather, very evocative, to say the least...

Edited:

Regarding the first, made of him as being integral to her consciousness... Took me back to the epi itself... That "stamp" was the first, made by him... The second time, "S" was again stamped on her palm... Hence, not only was that essence imbibed at the first, but it was fortified and re-imprinted once more... Not just at the obvious level, but at the level of her soul... Hence at the "collapse", with the dah sanskar of the obvious, concrete mementos, her consciousness perhaps, shut itself down believing that with the cremation of all the beloved objects, so too will the ehsaas die down... But of course, that was not... The kite, matka, letter, sari etc, the loss, were all replaced by something even more potent, the payal, chock-full of that ehsaas, that at the very sight, she was made to come "alive" once more, and at their very touch utter/think the stamp imprinted indelibly on her soul... S... Saras... I found it very apt that at the very moment the stamp on her hand, came in contact with that ehsaas, the potent charge that the payal carried, she could only think, search, and feel one. With some semblence of a conviction, even. Very beautifully done.. That the retraction, despite honest efforts, was to no end. You mention "conscience", I think that will play a very big part in the current track... Kumud's consciousness, her ehsaas, and her conscience will all do battle... That will be grand to watch.
Edited by IdiotViewer - 12 years ago

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