The hands you take and the hands you leave Part 63-Updated page 149 - Page 84

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shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
@Shreya a very good take on Purushottam-Sudha. Yes they have planned a lot. They are diverting the attention to something, while they end up doing something else. Or rather by diverting the attention they are creating the Chakravyuha to finish the battle. Ladoo is that person who will play spoil sport to their plans, as they have not accounted for him as he is a child and he is not the heir also.
I was not very sure of Narotham-Vatsalya relation as I didnt watch initial episodes. I thought Vatsalya cared for him, but never openly defied the rules of LM with respect to him as Anami does. Whether Vatsalya dead or alive, what if Dheeru has hidden Vatsalya if not Narotham. Dheeru enters the scene at a very crucial time. Like Sudha, Dheeru was also planning. Wouldnt Dheeru have observed RS and LM. Dheeru has deeper plans that what looks from outside. Just that I cannot accept Vatsalya is dead. Satrupa herself will be under the illusion. Why did Guruji asked to give away one child. Who knew it. Did Dheeru knew this. Dheeru was in LM when Anami was born, as she is Tanya age. Tanya is ard4-5 when Dheeru is arrested.
If Purushottam knows LM inside out, Dheeru knows it the same way. If Purushottam can plan for revenge, Dheeru can plan for justice.

I know I am throwing stones in water trying to create ripples, but Dheeru is one character for me who is not telling everything and unlike Satrupa he only opens his mouth at the very apt moment.
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Posted: 7 years ago

Originally posted by: Athene

I just want to take a few seconds to comment on what you said about Vatsalya. I have felt since day 1 that Vatsalya isn't dead, but at the same time I counter myself as well. Here's why. They never show Vatsalya's dead body or blood leaking from the car or anything. They showed the driver dead through that open door, but never Vatsalya. On the other hand, if Vatsalya isn't dead, Satrupa has to know this because she's the type of woman who would never perform the last rites of her son without seeing his dead body. And if she's seen it then the viewers would have been shown it as well. The fact that we weren't shown it makes me feel that Satrupa knows that Vatsalya isn't dead. But then again to counter that theory, the idea that comes to mind is that if Satrupa knows that Vatsalya isn't dead, she wouldn't have brought Anami to LM and if she did, she wouldn't spend so much time trying to groom her into the next heir. She would instead have spent time finding the person behind Vatsalya's death and punishing them and then bringing Vatsalya back out in front of everyone once the danger was averted. Combining all this takes me back to square one, into thinking that Vatsalya is dead.

Whatever it is I don't think Narottam has hidden Vatsalya away because Narottam hated Vatsalya. He felt Vatsalya was always trying to show him down, demean him, and troll him. There's no way Narottam would save Vatsalya. Not only that but Narottam has no idea who killed Vatsalya as was shown earlier on. If he has no idea who killed Vatsalya then how could he save Vatsalya? Just my thoughts.

On Sudha and Purushottam I just posted my comment in another thread so I've just quoted that here.


Narottam hated vatsalya...

Really ?
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Posted: 7 years ago
Shruthi and Manasi, after Vatsalya's death they showed this whole sequence with Narottam where he walked into Vatsalya's room, laid down on the bed, and cried. Then he got up and revealed that he hated Vatsalya because it felt like everything Vatsalya did was out of charity. He went on to say in that episode and future episodes that Vatsalya's love was strangling and that it wasn't love, but a way to demean him and rub it in that he was the wanted child and Narottam the unwanted child.

That was the episode that gave us insight into Narottam's character.

Originally posted by: Athene


I agree completely. Narottam has always been shunned. If it's because he's effeminate or for some other reason, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that he's been shunned. Sure Vatsalya loved him and stood up for him, but he never took a strong stand. It was more of a diplomatic stand like he's been taught all his life. And for Narottam who has been shunned since birth and raised by the maids, one person's love is not enough especially if that person is his younger brother (illegitimate or legitimate) and has gotten all the love that he deserved as well. In Narottam's eyes, Vatsalya is that person who stole his family from him, who stole the love he deserved from him, and then who "rubbed" it in by being Narottam's strength.

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Posted: 7 years ago

Originally posted by: Athene

Shruthi and Manasi, after Vatsalya's death they showed this whole sequence with Narottam where he walked into Vatsalya's room, laid down on the bed, and cried. Then he got up and revealed that he hated Vatsalya because it felt like everything Vatsalya did was out of charity. He went on to say in that episode and future episodes that Vatsalya's love was strangling and that it wasn't love, but a way to demean him and rub it in that he was the wanted child and Narottam the unwanted child.

That was the episode that gave us insight into Narottam's character.


okk so narottam said that , i watched but missed some of it so was not aware .

i always felt that if not love then its not some deep hatred as well , & the way LM waasis treated narottam it could never be expected from him to accept & be ok with vatsalya just like that .
vatsalya was the apple of everyone's eye ( except pujan & co...😆) , loved by all , has all amenities , leaded a princely life while narottam...who hardly had anyone who really cared for him yet he knew & did acknowledge what vatsalya was that's why maybe deep down in heart he does feel sorry for what happened to vatsalya but offcourse all these tender-hearted things can never match the wrath he has in him for all the wrongs done to him & to his jogan mother...😛
Mangothyme thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
Very good episode.
The family in LM is a historic royal family and also a modern business family. In both cases, fights for the gaddi which has led to assassinations are also historically common. So who is the heir ? A person born of a marriage. Same rules apply to royal houses of England and India. That is why Queen Victoria, a girl child became ruler at the age of 18. She was heiress presumptive, not heir apparent because she was female. But she was the only legal heir, so she was isolated from others, protected in a cocoon and not even allowed to use stairs without holding someone's hand even as a young woman. Not to protect her, but to protect the dynasty from ending because if she died the power went out of the family.

But that kind of isolation was not possible in the 21st century. Vatsalya the heir always wore a target on his back even as a young child and had attempts made on his life. Someone succeeded and they thought they ended the dynasty. But they did not count on the Queen to hide another heir. I am not going to give Satrupa credit for hiding Anami. That would mean she consciously accepted Vatsalya would die and he is dispensable. It would make her a horrible mother. From what I saw of Satrupa, she was ready to die when Vatsalya died. She was a grieving mother then. She is still a grieving mother. She had a gun in her hands, ready to kill herself. She did not even remember Anami existed. She was so deep in her grief. If she was that ruthless, she would have brought Anami then. Satrupa has stopped smiling, singing since Vatsalya died. She has become cold. If she just hid Anami for a time to be produced as an alternate heir, I don't think her personality would change. Vatsalya was her son, her happiness, her reason for living. This is a woman who routinely gave a blood sacrifice, puja her blood for his life. She killed for him. Like Satrupa will never replace Panditayen in Anami's life, so will Anami never replace Vatsalya in Salrupa's life. . She never kept track of Anami, never looked her up. She did not even know who raised her. She says so to Guruji when he reminds her that she is not nirvanash after Vatsalya dies and she is ready to leave LM. If she had any plans of Anami of a backup heir she would have done all that.

Is Vatsalya dead or alive ? I've always wondered that. Again I come to Satrupa. There are few scenes that make me think that if he is alive Satrupa does not know. The episode in which Adhiraj is introduced is pivotal. It is the prayer meet for Vatsalya. Satrupa is absolutely broken when she sits there. She also remembers him as a little child, goes to his room, falls on the floor and screams. All this is done in private. She was grieving then. She also goes to her room, looks for her gun, pulls the trigger repeatedly. It is unloaded, I think she screams again. I remember these scenes very well because Narayani Shastri impressed me so much. I think in the same episode or the next one, she is packing to leave. She is still in a simple cream sari, no jewels. Then Guruji comes into her room. She does not even remember Anami exists. I remember that specifically because Guruji says you are not nirvansh. I had to look up that word for what it meant. Satrupa turns in surprise. The first time she goes to Benaras she begs Anami. Only the second time she threatens the pundits. So if Vatsalya is alive, Satrupa does not know.

If Vatsalya is alive, I think he is kept prisoner by Narottam. Narottam had no love lost for Vatsalya. Is Narottam capable of that ? Why not, he is Sudha's son. He might have saved a injured Vatsalya but quickly become greedy. There is a scene immediately after Vatsalya's death where he lies in Vatsalya's bed holding the guitar, a single tear escapes his eyes and then he goes around the room saying "do you even know what it meant to be you Vatsalya". It denotes a life time of envy. I remember that scene because of Akash Gill. Narottam also asks Vikram into accepting him as heir using Vatsalya. I think taking Vatsalya's cap, telling him Vatsalya gave him and why can't he have his place now. He pretends to grieve with Vikram. First Vikram is touched, but he demeanor changes and he warns him. This is when they talk about Baldev adopting Avdoot before Satrupa brings Anami. I think if Vatsalya is alive Narottam and Purushotam have him. I don't think Purushotam trusts Sudha much too.
Edited by Mangothyme - 7 years ago
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Posted: 7 years ago
@ Manasi (I hope that's your name): I don't think Narottam ever had any brotherly feelings for Vatsalya. For him Vatsalya was a competitor, the heir of LM, and a brat who rubbed it in Narottam's face that he was the heir even though he was the second born child. At the same time though I feel that Anami will manage to evoke those emotions in Narottam as she has managed to touch his heart. Narottam has come out of his shell and stood up to Adhiraj to save Anami, stood up to Sudha when she mentioned that Anami has to die, and even cried (in reality) to what Anami made up about Vatsalya's diary. Not only that, but Satrupa, in her bid to get Narottam on their side, has also touched Narottam.

Narottam is basically a child starved for love and care. He's not a mean killing machine like Sudha thinks he is. He hates Lal Mahal and the family only because they've always hated and demeaned him. But show him some real care and love in your usual way and he'll realize that not everyone is as bad as Sudha made them out to be. That's why he's gotten confused when it comes to Satrupa. Because Satrupa hasn't suddenly become all lovey dovey. She still maintains a distance, but she stopped his beating, cared about him enough to bring him a blanket, and noticed his small habits and hobbies, in her usual way. That's really all Narottam needs to see. That these people stay in their character, but become more familial with him. Satrupa has hit it on the mark. Narottam is an easy sway because despite all his hatred, all he needs is love and care.


@ Mangothyme: I still feel that Narottam doesn't have Vatsalya or even know where he is. There was a scene between him and Anami where he told Anami clearly that if he had known Vatsalya was going to die then he would have done something to save him and I think he even said he suspected Pujan. Anami (at that time) was perceptive enough to read through lies and she was able to tell that Narottam wasn't lying. Not only that, but in a further scene Narottam reported this to Sudha in an innocent manner. It suggested to me that Narottam has no idea where Vatsalya is and believes Vatsalya is dead.

On the other hand you raise a good point about Purushottam. He might have hidden Vatsalya away. I felt a bit in the present that he doesn't trust Sudha, but I brushed it off thinking it was just because of bad audio or video. But I went back and watched it again to be sure and I felt that again. It was a weird sensation, but it happened as Sudha said that you have to talk to Narottam and Anami has to die. Purushottam almost seemed like he was ready to roll his eyes at that as if saying "another murder, seriously woman". Purushottam is smart. In fact clever. There's no way you are declared dead and remain hidden for so many years if you aren't clever. Even now, Adhiraj is just grasping at straws. Dheeru is unsure if the video is actually Purushottam or not (though I do suspect that's an act because Dheeru is a lot smarter than he appears). Whatever it may be, Purushottam is not one who will go down with others. He'll go down because of his own mistakes. Somewhere I feel he also suspects that Sudha's intricate planning will get her caught so he may not have killed Vatsalya as an insurance policy for himself.

But then I go back to my original point about Satrupa. Vatsalya was Satrupa's world. Would she really perform his final rites and be so broken without seeing Vatsalya's dead body? Vatsalya was killed in an accident. There was no explosion. The car didn't go down a ravine. Nothing. The body should have been found and handed over to the family. And if the body was handed over to the family, then why weren't we shown in? Alternatively, if the car did explode later or get pushed down a ravine, then why weren't we shown that as a cliffhanger? And if Satrupa hasn't seen Vatsalya's dead body, then how did she accept that he was dead? Why didn't she try to find his dead body? Somewhere I feel that Vatsalya is dead and if he isn't then Satrupa knows about it.
Mangothyme thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago

Originally posted by: Athene

@ Manasi (I hope that's your name): I don't think Narottam ever had any brotherly feelings for Vatsalya. For him Vatsalya was a competitor, the heir of LM, and a brat who rubbed it in Narottam's face that he was the heir even though he was the second born child. At the same time though I feel that Anami will manage to evoke those emotions in Narottam as she has managed to touch his heart. Narottam has come out of his shell and stood up to Adhiraj to save Anami, stood up to Sudha when she mentioned that Anami has to die, and even cried (in reality) to what Anami made up about Vatsalya's diary. Not only that, but Satrupa, in her bid to get Narottam on their side, has also touched Narottam.

Narottam is basically a child starved for love and care. He's not a mean killing machine like Sudha thinks he is. He hates Lal Mahal and the family only because they've always hated and demeaned him. But show him some real care and love in your usual way and he'll realize that not everyone is as bad as Sudha made them out to be. That's why he's gotten confused when it comes to Satrupa. Because Satrupa hasn't suddenly become all lovey dovey. She still maintains a distance, but she stopped his beating, cared about him enough to bring him a blanket, and noticed his small habits and hobbies, in her usual way. That's really all Narottam needs to see. That these people stay in their character, but become more familial with him. Satrupa has hit it on the mark. Narottam is an easy sway because despite all his hatred, all he needs is love and care.


@ Mangothyme: I still feel that Narottam doesn't have Vatsalya or even know where he is. There was a scene between him and Anami where he told Anami clearly that if he had known Vatsalya was going to die then he would have done something to save him and I think he even said he suspected Pujan. Anami (at that time) was perceptive enough to read through lies and she was able to tell that Narottam wasn't lying. Not only that, but in a further scene Narottam reported this to Sudha in an innocent manner. It suggested to me that Narottam has no idea where Vatsalya is and believes Vatsalya is dead.

On the other hand you raise a good point about Purushottam. He might have hidden Vatsalya away. I felt a bit in the present that he doesn't trust Sudha, but I brushed it off thinking it was just because of bad audio or video. But I went back and watched it again to be sure and I felt that again. It was a weird sensation, but it happened as Sudha said that you have to talk to Narottam and Anami has to die. Purushottam almost seemed like he was ready to roll his eyes at that as if saying "another murder, seriously woman". Purushottam is smart. In fact clever. There's no way you are declared dead and remain hidden for so many years if you aren't clever. Even now, Adhiraj is just grasping at straws. Dheeru is unsure if the video is actually Purushottam or not (though I do suspect that's an act because Dheeru is a lot smarter than he appears). Whatever it may be, Purushottam is not one who will go down with others. He'll go down because of his own mistakes. Somewhere I feel he also suspects that Sudha's intricate planning will get her caught so he may not have killed Vatsalya as an insurance policy for himself.

But then I go back to my original point about Satrupa. Vatsalya was Satrupa's world. Would she really perform his final rites and be so broken without seeing Vatsalya's dead body? Vatsalya was killed in an accident. There was no explosion. The car didn't go down a ravine. Nothing. The body should have been found and handed over to the family. And if the body was handed over to the family, then why weren't we shown in? Alternatively, if the car did explode later or get pushed down a ravine, then why weren't we shown that as a cliffhanger? And if Satrupa hasn't seen Vatsalya's dead body, then how did she accept that he was dead? Why didn't she try to find his dead body? Somewhere I feel that Vatsalya is dead and if he isn't then Satrupa knows about it.


I too go back and forth Athene. But it comes down to Satrupa's behavior in the initial days after Vatsalya's death. The remembering of Vatsalya and going into his room, falling on the floor and crying. Going into her room, looking for a gun, cocking it and repeatedly pulling the trigger. She screams when she is not successful. These are both private moments. There is no one to impress with her acting like Dadi did with the 'Bichu, Bichu' and Sudha attempting to kill her. The time when Anami does something to Satrupa's Nas, she had come into Vatsalya's room to remember him and mourn. She did not know Anami was there, again a private moment and no acting to impress anyone. That is why I am convinced Satrupa thinks Vatsalya is dead. Especially contrasted with the Dadi acting to get Anami's sympathy. Satrupa did not remember she had another child. She is packing to leave LM. Then Guruji comes in and tells her she is not nirvansh. Satrupa turns in surprise. She says then Guruji forbade her to contact Anami or even know where she is. Damo does not tell her where Anami is, Guruji tells her then. Satrupa seems determined to make Anami heir. She would not be so determined to make her heir at the expense of their relationship if there was a chance Vatsalya was alive I feel. She would try to bond with Anami more as a mother.

Also the Raksha Dhaga that Vatsalya gave Anami breaks the minute the accident happens on its own. Then Anami feels very sad, something she cannot explain. This is my serial "evidence" Vatsalya is dead. 😆

If vatsalya is alive and it is a big IF, I think Narottam was part of the plan to kidnap him unknown to Sudha. But he will always have the conflicted relationship he has with Anami. These nocturnal visits explain what Narottam is doing in secret to make sure Vatsalya is ok in that scenario. I don't think Sudha knows everything, Narottam probably knows more. If Ladoo is kidnapped I am quite sure we will find out soon if Vatsalya is alive as he will probably be kept in the same place or they may meet eventually.
Edited by Mangothyme - 7 years ago
bella2244 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
I also think that vatsalya is alive.😊 first i think may be purshotam hind him but after flaceback i guess it's must be dheeru !😆 may be dheeru seen accident and find out that it's vatsalya! Look like dheeru have not that bad person who hind him for some revange.he have a some past relation with satrupa so for that sake he save him and kept him. He must be wait for his killer arresting. I just wish it's true and vassu is alive 😳😛😆
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
Thanks Shreya and Mangothyme for explaining the relation of Narotham and Vatsalya. It simply looks like Karna-Arjuna. Karna's talents were ignored just because he was a charioteer's son and Arjuna was propelled because he was the prince. The issue there was Arjun never knew Karna was his brother, neither do Karna . Karna knows it only before war. But here Vatsalya knows Narotham is brother, but unlike Anami he has not exactly given Narotham that place. So the connect was not there.
Now let us look at the war. Tthough Yudhi is supposed to be the king, the war in real sense was fought by Bhima, Arjuna, Abhi and Ghatolkach with Krishna direction and of course sun. These 4 were the key players that fight and take the power for Yudhi to be the king. Why they had to fight, again because of Yudhi who played a game of dice and kept his brothers and wife as pawn and lost whatever he had got. Whatever he and his brothers had build with their sweat. Indraprastha was not Yudhi's alone, the 4 pandava brothers and panchali had played their parts in setting up that place. But yudhi decided alone how he could throw away that, how he could keep his brothers as pawns and make them slaves. He did that with his wife also. He survived because his wife gave him a chance, his brother's forgave him for his tomfoolery and decided to fight for him.

Let us look at Vatsalya. The heir apparent, without realizing the responsibility on his shoulders, without realizing what will happen to RS and its workers if he do things recklessly run away. Net result. RS has no heir or it will go to Avdhoot, who is not really heir material. Satrupa is forced to bring Anami. So the fight is going to be fought by Anami, Adhiraj, Poonam, Ladoo with we not knowing where Tanya will land. Satupa and Dheeru are going to hold the reins of this blood shed. If Vatsalya is a prisoner by Narotham or Purushottam or is kept by Dheeru he will come only when the power on the other side is taken by the other players. Then of course he will be the heir as he is supposed to run RS with his vision. Not exactly Yudhi, but in a way like Yudhi as his running away was way too irresponsible.

Coming to Anami losing the Raksha dhaaga it means her protection is gone, the protection Vatsalya gave her. Because Vatsalya was in LM, Anami was in benaras living the life of a commoner. When Vatsalya accident happened that protection is going to go and she needs to come to forefront. It is just an assumption. Anami will have to fight it out, it is her battle. But Vatsalya I hope is alive so that after doing her work, Anami can go away from RS. Durga came, cleaned up the mess and then she will go. The visarjan of Durga.
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Posted: 7 years ago
Has Anami lost the Raksha Dhaga given by Vatsalya , Shrutiravi ? I have been watching the show off and on so maybe missed that part.

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