Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan II - Page 63

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Kal El thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Kal

Thanks for this description of the variations within Valmiki itself. As it is, I normally reject the other versions, such as Tulsidas, Adhyatma, Ananda, et al, but this does open another can of worms. Do any of the versions above - particularly the critical edition - try and pinpoint 1:4, which has the exact number of shlokas and everything else, and identify where exactly it's sourced, so that they can either keep the count consistent w/ that? Or is that one of the things removed?



A variant of that sloka is found in every recension. The Southern Recension version tells us about the total size of the poem (24,000 slokas in 500 [or 600,depending upon version] Sargas divided into 6+1 kandas) whereas the Northern Recension version goes into more details and gives us a breakdown of the number of sargas per kanda and number of slokas per sarga.

Let's call this sloka the "list of contents".

Now here's the problem: the actual count does not match up with the list of contents in any recension. They are greater than the descibed figures. Further, the kanda-by-kanda and sarga-by-sarga breakdown provided in the Northern Recension versions of the list of contents don't even add up to 500 [or 600] sargas and 24,000 slokas (they add up to bigger figures)! In other words, even the mathematics of the list of contents provided in the Northern Recensions are erroneous, forget the actual count. There is no version available where the counts and descriptions match up perfectly.

This is due to the fact that the manuscripts were passed down from generation to generation by manual copying and errors and interpolations crept in, resulting in bloated, confusing texts. This is why the commentaries are important in trying to figure out which slokas/sargas could be interpolations.

The recensions also vary in the division of kandas and sargas as well as the sequence of slokas in some cases. There are entire sargas in a recension not found in the others. One sarga in a recension might be split up into multiple sargas in another and vice versa. Where one kanda ends and another begins also varies.

The Critical Edition is actually much shorter than the individual recensions because, as I mentioned earlier, they tried to reconstruct an authentic version by removing what they considered unsupported or interpolated verses from the Southern Recension which they consider the least distorted. The size of the Critical Edition is 606 sargas in about 19,100 slokas. Did they discard some slokas they shouldn't have? Did they include some slokas they shouldn't have? These questions are being debated even today.

By the way, about a third of each recension is unique to itself. So if we count the common slokas only once, the total number of slokas in all the recensions adds up to around 40,000 - 50,000. 😳

To give you an idea of the situation, when the Oriental Insitute (Baroda) started on their Critical Edition project, they first compiled a list of 2,500 known manuscripts! These manuscipts are spread all over the subcontinent and not easy to obtain (they belong to various institutions and private owners). They sent out an appeal for the loan of these manuscripts. They also asked information about uncatalogued manuscripts. Yes, there are even more manuscripts: scholars are of the opinion that the total number far exceeds 2,500! 😲 Ultimately they obtained more than 200 manuscripts and ended up using 231 for the constituted text of the Critical Edition. As you can see, the quest for an authentic version is far from over.

Edited by Kal El - 16 years ago
bharat9 thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
So, no one knows the reason behind holding 'kusha grass' when Ramji went into Saryu.
Same108 thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: bharat9

So, no one knows the reason behind holding 'kusha grass' when Ramji went into Saryu.

May be he was performing shraddha ceremony for Lakshman? It was in previous serial too.
The reason I can say that is SBS footage. You can see clearly Ram (Gurmeet) doing something with the grass and probably chanting some mantras. That part was cut from the final edit.
Edited by Same108 - 16 years ago
ananyacool thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: bharat9

So, no one knows the reason behind holding 'kusha grass' when Ramji went into Sarayu.

Kusha (Poa cynosurodes)and durva (Agrostis linearis)) types of grasses are indispensible in hindu religious ceremonies be it an auspicious occasion or remembrance of ur ancestors or cremation.
Kusha grass ( and durva) are known as 'purifiers' and are held specially during such 'samadhis' as evident in Ramji's case because its believed that you attain salvation just by holding kusha grass( without reciting mantras)
In rig-veda and Atharva veda Kusha grass is described as the link between you and ur ancestors (pitru)
MBH has a story accounting for the sacredness of the Kusa grass. When Garuda brought some of the amrita from the moon for the Nagas,, as the price to be paid for his mother's(Vinata) release from servitude of Kadru, the mother of Nagas; Indra tried to induce him not to give it to them lest they, becoming immortal, should oust him from his throne. Garuda would not consent to this arrangement, but told Indra that after it was given to them he could steal it.
Garuda brings the amrit to Nagas and releases his mother from bondage of Kadru but he makes a condition that all the nagas should have a sacred bath before they get their share of amrit , Nagas agree and the pot of amrit is placed on kusha grass, when Nagas are busy bathing ,Garuda seizes this opportunity and hurriedly takes away the pot of amrit, in this process some drops of amrit fall on the kusha grass kept below. The nagas when they come to know that they'd been fooled by Garuda angrily approach towards him in vain but they realize that some drops have fallen on the grass and hence lick it carelessly , Kusha grass being sharp slits their tongues thus making it forked.
In Ayurveda Kusha grass is known to cure from stomach ailments and 'Kapha' dosha.
Just like Kusha grass ,Durva grass too is very important in religious ceremonies, especially in Ganesha pooja, Satyanarayana pooja and Durga pooja (?)
Bhagvat puran gives an interesting story , when Samudra manthan took place Vishnu was in Kurma avatar and due to continuous friction of mount Mandar , some hair from Vishnu's chest and thighs fell off and reached the sea shore which was called 'durva'
Interestingly Ramji is praised as the one who resembled the color of durva (In Ram-raksha stotra)
Ramam durva dal shyamam ,padmaksham pItavasasam- (Obeisance to that) Rama who is the color of the sacred durva, the lotus eyed one ,attired in yellow garments.
Edited by ananyacool - 16 years ago
Vibhishna thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
Ananya 🤗🤗🤗 Thanks a lot for the information on Kusa grass and Dharbha grass.

Its been quite a while since I saw you in this Forum.

I haven't heard all these before. I have heard stories of saints who enter samadhis but I haven't heard any mention of the grass so far.

Thanks again.

So, Durva grass is dark green in colour?


ananyacool thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

Ananya 🤗🤗🤗 Thanks a lot for the information on Kusa grass and Dharbha grass.

Its been quite a while since I saw you in this Forum.

I haven't heard all these before. I have heard stories of saints who enter samadhis but I haven't heard any mention of the grass so far.

Thanks again.

So, Durva grass is dark green in colour?


Yup, it was sometime since I vanished from here 😳 without telling 😳😳
about kusha grass used during samadhis ,I've read about Srila Prabhupada(of ISCKON) who took a samadhi and he had Kusa grass in his hand . See if you can get a copy of text from ISCKON regarding the same . Also every year at ISCKON , in the anniversary of his samadhi a 'maha-abhishekam' is done to his statue which ostensibly includes about 4- 5 ft of kush grass (held by his devotees)
Vibhishna thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: ananyacool

Yup, it was sometime since I vanished from here 😳 without telling 😳😳
about kusha grass used during samadhis ,I've read about Srila Prabhupada(of ISCKON) who took a samadhi and he had Kusa grass in his hand . See if you can get a copy of text from ISCKON regarding the same . Also every year at ISCKON , in the anniversary of his samadhi a 'maha-abhishekam' is done to his statue which ostensibly includes about 4- 5 ft of kush grass (held by his devotees)



Thank you. I'll see if I can find the book.

I have read about the saints Raghavendra and Pattinathaar. But so far I haven't heard them taking Kusa grass when they attained Samadhi.

Thanks for the information on Srila Prabhupada.
Khalrika thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
<font size="4">Ananya, thanks for the info on the grasses.</font> 👏
Edited by Khalrika - 16 years ago
Khalrika thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
Ananya, why was the Kusa grass singled out for so much prominence in the Hindu religion compared to other grass species? Was it because it was probably found in abundance in India during the early times? Do u know?
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
Thanks for all the infor everyone. Very helpful.👏

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