Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan II - Page 57

Originally posted by: akhl

Chandraketu, in Valmiki Ramayan Baal Kand verses 4.27 to 4.30, it is written that Luv and Kush sing on the pathways of Ayodhya. Then Ram saw them.

Originally posted by: akhl

Chandraketu, in Valmiki Ramayan Baal Kand verses 4.27 to 4.30, it is written that Luv and Kush sing on the pathways of Ayodhya. Then Ram saw them.

By streets, they can not have meant Ayodhya, since the yagna itself was in Naimisharanya, on the banks of the Gomti. So they must have sung this in other places along the way to Naimisharanya, since that was where the yagnashala was set up, but which was not a city. Besides, there is nothing in 1:4 that suggests that these 2 went to Ayodhya.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Akhl

Thanks for pointing this out. Looking at it in more detail:

By streets, they can not have meant Ayodhya, since the yagna itself was in Naimisharanya, on the banks of the Gomti. So they must have sung this in other places along the way to Naimisharanya, since that was where the yagnashala was set up, but which was not a city. Besides, there is nothing in 1:4 that suggests that these 2 went to Ayodhya.

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

Thanks akhl and Chandraketu for the information. From what I have read, Maharishi Valmiki blessed them and sent them from the ashram to sing the epic in all places - among sages, gatherings, homes and royal courts. The twins sing the epic to to many sages before they reach Naimisharanya where Ram hears them. I am not sure at what stage the sacrifice was in. In one book I read that it was when Ram was about to slay the horse he heard the song and in another I read that he heard it when he was in the place where the horse would be slayed. I am not sure which one is correct. A lot was mentioned as to how the sages appreciated the twins singing the Ramayana.

I too wish I could have read Uttar Kand in Tamil. It would have been really interesting. But I can't find the book.

In Raghuvamsa, it was not mentioned in detail. All that was given was, that the twins sang the Ramayan in front of everyone and Ram hearing it all was so enthralled by it, he came forward to give the entire country to Maharishi Valmiki. But the sage said that the two kids who sang the Ramayan were his own and it will give him much more happiness if Ram accepts Sita back. Ram replies that if Sita can prove her chastity in front of the people she can accept her back. But when Sita came she asked Mother Earth to accept her. It was mentioned that Ram was in grief over Sita's passing and after Sita left the Earth he poured out his love on his sons.

Nothing was mentioned about Kush and Luv singing the Ramayan the next day.

In Bhavabhuti's Ramayan the entire scenario was different. A drama was enacted in front of Maharaj Ram and others in the forest. The information I have about Uttara Rama Charita is quite a bit scattered and not clear. I'll try to make sense of what I have and get back by this weekend.

I think quite many authors have written their versions as though the people of Ayodhya regret their attitude after listening to Luv and Kush singing the Ramayana. I read somewhere that Ahalya, when she met Sita after her banishment was totally furious and gave up her life saying that she didn't want to live the life that was given to her by such a man. Some versions say that she turned back to stone. Not sure where this came up from but one of the version definitely has this part.

In Bhavabhuti Ramayan, Sita meets many of the wives of the sages who become angry with Ram for banishing her. Even Mother Earth appears to her and says that Ram was not worthy of her.

In the Tamil movie Luva Kusa, Kush and Luv sing the Ramayan in front of the people of Ayodhya and then in the Royal court in front of the ladies. As they were singing, Ram who was in another chamber heard them and was reminded of the past. At the end of the song, Ram himself came where they were singing and blessed them as they sang verses in his praise. Ram came forward to give wealth and riches but they refused saying that all they wanted was one thing. They wanted to see Mother Sita, the heroine of the Ramyana, at least once and get her blessings. In this movie too, Luv and Kush are not aware of who their parents are and Sita is referred to as Vanadevathai (Vandevi). Rajamata Kaushalya says that Sita is not with them at the moment. Luv and Kush are shocked to find out what happened to her and storm out of the palace saying that Ram was not the hero but the villain and so on. In this movie, Shanta is also present in the palace but that may be because of the Ashwamedha Yagna. It was after this that Luv and Kush capture the horse when it wanders near their Ashram. And the same story of Sita taking up the vrat and Kush and Luv taking charge of bringing the blue lotuses is also shown.

Lalitha Janaki, your siggies are beautiful as usual. 😊

Originally posted by: _LalithaJanaki_

There is nothing that suggests that they did not.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Sure there is. In 7:91, it's explicitly mentioned that the yagna was held at Naimisharanya on the banks of the Gomati river, and in 7:93, it's mentioned that Valmiki went there to the yagna accompanied by K-L. That very explicitly rules out their going to Ayodhya, and there is nothing in 1:4 that contradicts 7:91-93.

Lest you think they may have gone to Naimisharanya via Ayodhya, here is what the route looks like on a map



The blue circle being Ayodhya, the light orange being where Valmiki's ashram is believed to have been located after he probably move out of Chitrakut (also visible in the above map), and the saffron being Sitapur, the district in which Naimisharanya is located. The brown arrow indicates the route they probably took. While it may be approximate, there is no way it could have gone through Ayodhya.

Vibs

Thanks for your account of the various stories regarding the various reactions to Sita's exile by different people.

According to Raghuvamsa, where did the yagna take place - Naimisharanya or Ayodhya?

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Hey, am lost in this discussion.... can anyone gist me what's going on here?

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

What were you doing away, young lady? 😆Read from pg 65 - there wasn't a contiguous theme.

First, the discussion was re: Ashwamedha yagnas, given what was being shown in the serial, and whether the behavior of SLBR was consistent w/ what rulers were expected to do if the horse was captured. Then there was a debate b/w Lalitha and me re: whether versions of the Ramayan that conflict w/ Valmiki deserve to be called fiction (I say yes, she says no), then the question of which versions have K-L singing in Ayodhya itself as shown in Monday's episode (Akhl said that 1:4 alludes to that, but I pointed out that in Valmiki, they never go to Ayodhya as far as the yagna went, only to Naimisharanya), and Vibs posted some good information re: what the various authors had re: K-L's singing, and their meetings w/ Rama. Oh, and I also got some practice into marking up maps like you did.

Somehow, the serial is getting into mystery mode again - today's focus being Hanuman sneaking into Valmiki's ashram and meeting Sita, and promising to keep her location a secret. For what reason, goodness only knows, since K-L are supposed to disclose her location the next day. At any rate, now they seem to be dragging it - I was hoping Sita's oath would happen on Friday, and the remainder would be wound up next week