Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan - Page 48

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Thats interesting to note that the status was given by Lord Krishna...Thanx Purvi for this info and also the fact that they dared to be different.

Originally posted by: ananyacool

I don't know much but its a part of Krittivas's Ramayana (bengali)

It appeared in the Chandamama also (hindi)

Bhasmalochana has power to reduce whoever he sees to ashes .For this reason he always covered his eyes. When Rama and his army reached the shore of Lanka ,they see Bhasmalochana,thankfully Vibishana informs Rama of Bhasmalochana's power and advised Rama to use mirrors to attack Bhasmalochana.Rama quickly created million of mirrors and aimed at Bhasmalochana.Before Bhasmalochana could cover his eyes ,the mirrors had surrounded him.He felt hundred of eyes burning inside of him .Bhasmalochana was burned to ashes.

Originally posted by: rajnish_here

A question , not a question but a poll you can say, what you believe or think about valmiki ramayan. his work is different from all other i.e most of the versions take into account ram being incarnation and god having most of godly power, for instance knowing the future , showing other his true form e.t.c e.t.c. The two of most earliyer writter of Ramayana is sage Valmiki and maharishi vyasha. both has written Ramayana in different way. sage vyasha considered ram as knowing he was god from very begining ( many puranas consist of several stories of ramayan but most renoned being Adhyatma ramayana which is a part of brahmand purana) goswami version matches much to vyasha cous both have many thing similar including telling of story as being discussion between uma and parvati. but sage Valmiki version is yet considered most authentic as he was contemporary of sri rama. So question is in which account these two people differs, i am talking about Valmiki and Maharishi vyasha, and to whome belive and why? i will put my vies latter but first want to know your all

In my book, whenever there is a conflict between the accounts of Valmiki vs anyone else, Valmiki overrides them for a bumch of reasons:

1. He was a contemporary of Rama, and had written all this long before Rama was born.

2. His account of Ravan's boon is consistent with Rama's knowledge of his divinity. Since Brahma had granted Ravan the boon that his death couldn't be caused by devas, rakshashas, yakshas, gandharvas and a whole laundry list of creatures, including the Gods Brahma, Vishnu & Shiva themselves, had Rama known that he was Vishnu, he'd have been no different from his earlier avatars that merely took on temporary forms for the period it was needed e.g. Kurma, or Vahara, or Narasimha. But such a form would still have been Vishnu, with full awareness of who he was, and all his powers, and as per Brahma's boon, would have been powerless to kill Ravan. The only way it could be done was if Vishnu got himself re-incarnated, with no knowledge of his divinity and his prowess, and started obtaining his divya-vidya from scratch, as Rama did from Vaishistha, Vishwamitra, Agastya and a whole bunch of rishis he befriended during the vanvas. This is my strongest reason for not believing Vyasa's account of things, as well as others who depicted Rama as knowing about his divinity. Note that once Ravan was killed and this requirement was no longer there, Brahma himself revealed to Rama his divine identity, and the need for that secrecy was no longer there.

3. Maharshi Vyasa was born ages after Rama's passing, since his mother Satyavati even didn't exist during the Treta yuga, so Vyasa couldn't possibly have existed during the period in question. Since we are talking yugas and not mere decades, there is a much stronger reason to doubt the accounts there that conflict with the Ramayan.

4. Brahma told Valmiki that as long as the rivers, mountains & seas exist, so long will the Ramayan exist. Note that he didn't say that to Vyasa, Kamban, Tulsidas, Krittivas, Ramdev et al - no disrespect to them, but they were not recipients of his boon.

There may be other reasons that escape me right now, but these are the ones that come to mind.

Originally posted by: coolpurvi

intersting question chen2chic. Im not sure why there r two list of Panchamahasati( Sati, Savitri, Sita, Arudhati, Damyanti) n PanchaKanya (Draupadi, kunti, tara, Mandodari, Ahilya)

Ladies in the former list were given the title mahasati for their exeptional role as dutiful wife

whereas ladies in the later list (panchkanya) stepped outside the role of wife. They r five great personalities who dared do be different. They r the five most controvercial women of their era . Two of the five kanyas (Tara, Mandodari) dared to critize the unjust deed of their husband. they were misunderstood often. I think this status was given to them by Lord krishna

Originally posted by: ananyacool

A wonderful discussion going on!!👏👏👏

Good points by Chandra bhaiya,Vibs, Sita ,Lalitha n Deepa

I'll add to the list of Pativratas

Sita,Sulochana,Savitri,Arundhati,Anusuya,Damayanti , Sukanya

Correct me if I'm wrong but the respective husbands of the above listed women didn't have another wife throughout their life and maybe thats why the wives of Krishna specially Rukmini doesn't find place among greatest pativratas. So "Pativratya" has something to do with men also.

There's one list of Pativratas which Sita herself mentions in Sundarkand, 24th chapt,verses 10,11,12 (Valmiki Ramayana)

(maybe that they were highly spoken of in those days)

"Like the highly fortunate Sachi who waits upon Indra, like Arundhati on Vasishta, like Rohini on the Moon God, like Lopamudra on Agastya, like Sukanya on Chyavana, like Savitri on Satyavanta, like Srimati on Kapila, like Madayanti on Saudasa, like Kesini on Sagara, like Damayanti the daughter of Bhima, devoted to husband Nala, in the same way I am devoted to my husband Rama, the best in Ikshvaku dynasty."

Barring moon nobody else had any other wife.

I personally feel that Kannagi too should find a place among the greatt pativratas ,just as Sita burnt the city of Lanka(through Hanuman)Kannagi too burnt the city of Madurai by her curse. Among the list of Pativratas only Sita and Kannagi are worshipped in temples.

Savitri too is worshipped but not in temples or she hasn't acquired the status of a goddess.

Coming to Panchakanyas

Ahalya ,Draupadi,Kunti, Tara,Mandodari

I think "Kanya" attribution is not a physical one because all of them have more than one man in their lives and have children too.

When Surya encounters Kunti, he tells that Kanya is derived from Kan which means "one who is wished for" so it means that Kanya doesn't necessarily have to be a 'Virgin'

Ananya

Thanks for refreshing my memory as to who the original pativratas were - I could remember only Savitri, Sita, Sulochana, Anusuya and maybe Sachi. The other was Srimati - wife of Kapila, who worshipped only her husband. I don't think Arundhati was on the list - in the Mahabharat, I recall it being mentioned in the context of the Khandavprastha burning and the Sarika birds that even Arundhati ignored Vaishistha after her sons were born. Damayanti might be in there - she incinerated a hunter who killed a snake that was about to eat her, when he wanted to possess her.

On the other ladies you listed after that, Lopamudra after her marriage sent Agastya off on a world tour to get wealth, which he finally did from Ilvala, so I think that might make her miss the rankings. Also, Kesini was just 1 of Sagar's 2 wives, right?

P.S. You brought up Karkati yesterday, and today, they showed her!!!😆😆😆 I can't say that Karkati will live 100 years, since she is dead, so how about you?😆😆😆 I'll discuss Karkati in the discussion thread, since we have too many parallel discussions in this thread at the moment.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Ananya

Thanks for refreshing my memory as to who the original pativratas were - I could remember only Savitri, Sita, Sulochana, Anusuya and maybe Sachi. The other was Srimati - wife of Kapila, who worshipped only her husband. I don't think Arundhati was on the list - in the Mahabharat, I recall it being mentioned in the context of the Khandavprastha burning and the Sarika birds that even Arundhati ignored Vaishistha after her sons were born. Damayanti might be in there - she incinerated a hunter who killed a snake that was about to eat her, when he wanted to possess her.

On the other ladies you listed after that, Lopamudra after her marriage sent Agastya off on a world tour to get wealth, which he finally did from Ilvala, so I think that might make her miss the rankings. Also, Kesini was just 1 of Sagar's 2 wives, right?

P.S. You brought up Karkati yesterday, and today, they showed her!!!😆😆😆 I can't say that Karkati will live 100 years, since she is dead, so how about you?😆😆😆 I'll discuss Karkati in the discussion thread, since we have too many parallel discussions in this thread at the moment.