Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan - Page 32

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chen2chic thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Hey People,

I have a topic from Valmiki Ramayan which needs to be clarified. People who have access to other sources apart from Internet, please clarify this.

The topic is on meat eating in Ramayan. I do not mean to offend anyone. Its just that I need to be clarified, and since this forum has people who have real good knowledge of Ramayan, please help me...
In the Valmiki Ramayan, there are various instances where there are references to meat eating. And since there are various versions of Sanskrit like the old one, Panini etc. these verses are interpreted differently.
I can provide the verses if anyone's willing to clarify these....
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Oh.....thats interesting to know the meeting between Indra & Rama. But in this serial, they show that its Indra who comes to Rama before the war and asks him to please Maa Durga right? Is this said in any version? So that is sort of contrary to this above situation right? But if one of you can clarify...please...

Rama worshipping Durga b4 the final battle is not there in Valmiki, but is there in Krittivas, which is yet another twist to the story. But in Valmiki, Indra never appears before Rama b4 the war, and even when sending Matali, he just sends Matali, rather than go himself.

_rajnish_ thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Hey People,

I have a topic from Valmiki Ramayan which needs to be clarified. People who have access to other sources apart from Internet, please clarify this.

The topic is on meat eating in Ramayan. I do not mean to offend anyone. Its just that I need to be clarified, and since this forum has people who have real good knowledge of Ramayan, please help me...
In the Valmiki Ramayan, there are various instances where there are references to meat eating. And since there are various versions of Sanskrit like the old one, Panini etc. these verses are interpreted differently.
I can provide the verses if anyone's willing to clarify these....


There is different way in which different scholars interpreted the original verses of scriptures. Few interpretaion say that Ram does eat meat and few do not, I have Gita press version which do not mentions about Ram being non-veg, but few did, but in that case also Ram eating meat is not wrong. Ram was kshatriya and in those time kshatriya does eat non-veg, Ram though incarnation is human and he led his life in the way humans do. King doing hunting and enjoying non-veg is justified through shashtras and in this way if Ram ate meat it is justified. Non veg comes under royan dinner or Rashri aahar and nothing wrong in this
there had been debate on this before too-
https://india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1098418
Edited by rajnish_here - 16 years ago
ananyacool thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Hey People,

I have a topic from Valmiki Ramayan which needs to be clarified. People who have access to other sources apart from Internet, please clarify this.

The topic is on meat eating in Ramayan. I do not mean to offend anyone. Its just that I need to be clarified, and since this forum has people who have real good knowledge of Ramayan, please help me...
In the Valmiki Ramayan, there are various instances where there are references to meat eating. And since there are various versions of Sanskrit like the old one, Panini etc. these verses are interpreted differently.
I can provide the verses if anyone's willing to clarify these....

🤔 not sure how its taken here .....I too have those doubts..
Vibhishna thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Hey People,

I have a topic from Valmiki Ramayan which needs to be clarified. People who have access to other sources apart from Internet, please clarify this.

The topic is on meat eating in Ramayan. I do not mean to offend anyone. Its just that I need to be clarified, and since this forum has people who have real good knowledge of Ramayan, please help me...
In the Valmiki Ramayan, there are various instances where there are references to meat eating. And since there are various versions of Sanskrit like the old one, Panini etc. these verses are interpreted differently.
I can provide the verses if anyone's willing to clarify these....

Yes, there are several mentions of non - vegetarian food in the Valmiki Ramayan. When Ram, Sita and Lakshman establish their home in Chitrakoot, they offer cooked meat (vension - deer meat) to the Gods and perform the ceremony of entering the house. It is mentioned that Sita Devi herself cooked it. Again, when Bharat comes to meet Ram after the death of King Dashrath, he tells Shathrugan that he can see the strips of dried meat and skin hung out on trees and poles made ready to use in the winter season. He says that this must be a sign that the home where the 3 of them stay must be nearby.
Ages and ages ago, all people ate all kinds of food and drank liquors too. It was after the Rishi Sukracharya was deceived by the Asuras and made to eat Kacha's flesh that he cursed that any Brahman who touches wine would be sent to hell.
It was sage Agasthya who cursed that any Brahman who ate flesh will go to hell or rather he vowed that no Brahman should touch meat. This was after the Vatapi - Ilvala incident.
I hope this was helpful.
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: ananyacool

10, 000 or 11000 yrs of Ram's rule might be a poetical imagination of Valmiki, Looking to his style of writing we can say his sanskrit was 'Flowery' and this style of writing has inspired other writers like Kalidas, Budha-Kaushika rishi eta al . My personal opinion is that shri Rama must have ruled at the most 20 yrs because he is not there to see Kusha's marriage so if Kush and lav were 12 yrs old when Ma Sita went into earth and then Rama accepts them as the heir apparent to Ayodhya then say after 20 yrs they will be 30yrs so at this age Kush becomes the king and later marries Kumudvati , a naga princess.
Some scholars say that when Valmiki says 11000, he meant that Rama ruled that many days again that comes around 30 yrs

I tend to agree. As far as numbers and statistical information goes in the Ramayan, I tend to treat them as figurative. The 11000 years are one, and then again, when Bharat invades Gandhara, he uses the Kaalastra to kill 30 million Gandharvas. 30 million? Even a H-bomb woudn't kill that many. That's why I tend to look at this as metaphorical.

I don't think Rama ruled for much longer after Sita's passing: after the passing of the 3 rajmatas, he started the conquests and installations of Bharat's & Lakshman's sons to various kingdoms, and then came the incident with Ka'al & Durvasa. I'd say it's more likely that Rama ruled for 10 years, during which time, all the wives & mothers died, and then he decided to initiate the inheritances and call it a day. And as you say, Kush married long after he became king, and that too the sister of a Naga ruler Kumudh.

As for the period between the wedding and the exile, I too have read that they lived for 12 years in Ayodhya. But that raises a question of its own - wouldn't they then have chosen to have kids and start their families? After all, Sita would have been 28 by the time of the exile, but had they had kids of their own, Dasharath & all might have been consoled by the fact that Rama's babies were there with him, even if Rama & Sita weren't.

For this reason, I think the exile might have happened a year or so after the marriage.

Mandavi & Srutakirti - given that Bharat & Shatrughan visited Kekaya after their marriage, it's likely that one of the things their maternal relatives would have wanted to see would be their brides. So the way it was shown in this serial - Mandavi & Srutakirti being at Kekaya - would have been accurate. Besides, if Sita insisted on accompanying Rama to the forest, isn't it reasonable to assume that Mandavi & Srutakirti would accompany their husbands to a much more hospitable place, like Kekaya?

Exit question: Granted Dasharath was partial to Kaikeyi, but did he have no relationship with Kosala-desha (Kaushalya's origin, today Chattisgarh) and Magadh (Sumitra's origin)? If Bharat was expected to go to Kekaya, how come Rama & Lakshman was never expected to go to Kosala-desha or Lakshman & Shatrughan never expected to go to Magadh?

Edited by Chandraketu - 16 years ago
Khalrika thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Hey People,

I have a topic from Valmiki Ramayan which needs to be clarified. People who have access to other sources apart from Internet, please clarify this.

The topic is on meat eating in Ramayan. I do not mean to offend anyone. Its just that I need to be clarified, and since this forum has people who have real good knowledge of Ramayan, please help me...
In the Valmiki Ramayan, there are various instances where there are references to meat eating. And since there are various versions of Sanskrit like the old one, Panini etc. these verses are interpreted differently.
I can provide the verses if anyone's willing to clarify these....



Chen2chic, I am no expert but Rama eating meat was probably okay because he is a Kshatriya. In fact, all the yagnas done in those days used the meat of wild animals as offering. The majority of the people on this earth eat meat. The ancestors of vegetarians probably did too when they were hunter-gatherers. There are scholars who say that Brahmins too ate meat in those days.

The story of Vatapi is a good example of that. For those who do not know this story, Vatapi and his brother were two Rakshas who hated Rishi Agastya. There wanted to finish him off and they hit upon a plan. They went to Agastya muni and asked him to come to their house for a meal. Agastya knew that these 2 were up to no good but accepted anyway. Agastya goes to their house for a meal. Now, Vatapi, being a Rakshas, has the ability to change into any form. The brothers decide that Vatapi will change into a goat and his brother will cook him for Sage Agastya. When Agastya is done eating his brother says that he will call out his name 'Vatapi, Vatapi.' Then Vatapi, who has gone into Agastya's stomach as shish kebab will tear open Agastya's stomach with his horns (he has the capacity to become his full self even after being cooked) and kill Agastya.

The two evil Rakshasas carry out the plan. Rishi Agastya eats the shish kebab and is very happy. He then says 'Vatapi Jeerano Bhava' meaning let Vatapi get digested. Vatapi is digested because of the tapo bal of the Rishi. When his brother calls out Vatapi's name no one comes out. Vatapi is dead. The other brother runs away, I think. I am not sure about what happens to the other brother.

There is nothing wrong in eating meat, IMHO. Some scholars believe that vegetarianism was a Jain or a Buddhist influence on Hinduism.
Khalrika thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Mandodari......people young at heart can never retire, can they😉.? So may be a difficult task for you😆😉



😆😆😆
😆
Khalrika thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

Thank you. I never knew of this before.
Thanks for the infomation. 😃



Thanks Ananya. WOW! all that math is very cool. Thanks for the info and the math does make sense. Thanks Chandra, Vibishna, Rajinish, and others who answered my question. 👏👏👏
👏
chen2chic thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

[

As for the period between the wedding and the exile, I too have read that they lived for 12 years in Ayodhya. But that raises a question of its own - wouldn't they then have chosen to have kids and start their families? After all, Sita would have been 28 by the time of the exile, but had they had kids of their own, Dasharath & all might have been consoled by the fact that Rama's babies were there with him, even if Rama & Sita weren't.

For this reason, I think the exile might have happened a year or so after the marriage.

Mandavi & Srutakirti - given that Bharat & Shatrughan visited Kekaya after their marriage, it's likely that one of the things their maternal relatives would have wanted to see would be their brides. So the way it was shown in this serial - Mandavi & Srutakirti being at Kekaya - would have been accurate. Besides, if Sita insisted on accompanying Rama to the forest, isn't it reasonable to assume that Mandavi & Srutakirti would accompany their husbands to a much more hospitable place, like Kekaya?

Exit question: Granted Dasharath was partial to Kaikeyi, but did he have no relationship with Kosala-desha (Kaushalya's origin, today Chattisgarh) and Magadh (Sumitra's origin)? If Bharat was expected to go to Kekaya, how come Rama & Lakshman was never expected to go to Kosala-desha or Lakshman & Shatrughan never expected to go to Magadh?

Your point on Mandavi & Shrutkirti accompanying Bharat & Shatrughan is defnitely acceptable. So all chances the two ladies were not present at Ayodhya at the time of Ram's exile.

And regarding your exit question:
As per what I have heard about the story of Kaushalya - it is said that Kaushalya's father did not have any sons and thus handed over his kingdom of Kosal to Dasaratha during Dasaratha-Kaushalya's wedding. Dasaratha's ancestral kingdom was Avadh with Ayodhya as its capital. So I'm guessing the two kingdoms merged to be called Kosal desh, with Ayodhya as their capital.
And probably Kausalya's father also passed away so there was no place Rama had to go.
And for Sumitra, she had already entrusted Lakshman & Shatrughan to Rama & Bharat respectively, so probably they two would not go anywhere on their own.
Btw, is Sumitra from Magadh or Kashi?

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