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Originally posted by: ananyacool
As far as I know both ,the worship of Shiva and Ashwamedha yajna relieve a peron from Brahma hatya dosha.
Originally posted by: Chandraketu
You are right - Valmiki says that he's born of a Vaishya father & a Shudra mother. Shravan Kumar consoles Dasharath that he's not guilty of Brahmhatya by giving this detail.
I am red faced 😳😳😳- the Brahmin Indra killed wasn't Vritra (who was an asura), but Trisiras, the 3 headed son of Tvastha. Story goes that there was a fallout between Indra & Brihaspati, & the latter left Devalok. As a result, the asuras got the upper hand in their battles against the devas, and Indra needed a suitable guru. He approached Trisiras, the son of Tvastha, who also had asura parentage via his mother. So while Trisiras initially did the yagnas properly, the success of the devas actually saddened him, since the asuras were his mother's kith & kin. So he started doing the yagnas to benefit both devas & asuras, and soon, the devasura battles started becoming stalemates. Indra was perplexed at this situation, and then did an yagna which was to redeem that situation. In that yagna, Trisiras poured a spoon of ghee in for the devas, while chanting the mantras, but next, emptied the entire pot of ghee in for the asuras. Indra was furious and instantly beheaded Trisiras. His 3 heads became 3 birds (forget which type) that flew away. Rishi Tvastha divined what Indra had done, and created Vritra for the sake of killing him. Indra in turn got Rishi Dadhichi to sacrifice his life so that Indra could make a mace out of his bones: reason he needed this was that Dadhichi was the only rishi whose tapas matched that of Tvastha.Bottom line - after Vritra was killed and it was all over, Indra did the ashwamedha to atone for the killing of Trisiras.
Originally posted by: Mandodari
Vibshna, Chandra, or anyone else. At the beginning of Valmiki Ramayan, Narada narrates the story of Ram to Valmiki Maharishi. He never mentions the Uttarkand during that narration. Narada's story stops with the Rajyaabishek/Pattabishekam. You guys were discussing that Valmiki Ramayan itself evolved through the ages. So, was Uttarkhand an later addition?
When he is told to chant "mara" to get gyan he does not know about Ram or his story. He does not know about Ram or his katha when he is told the story by Narada. By the time of Uttarkhand he is Ram's contemporary? How can that be? I have a problem with this timeline. If any of you have a better understanding of this, please clear my doubts.
If this topic was discussed earlier I apologize.
Originally posted by: Mandodari
Vibshna, Chandra, or anyone else. At the beginning of Valmiki Ramayan, Narada narrates the story of Ram to Valmiki Maharishi. He never mentions the Uttarkand during that narration. Narada's story stops with the Rajyaabishek/Pattabishekam. You guys were discussing that Valmiki Ramayan itself evolved through the ages. So, was Uttarkhand an later addition?
When he is told to chant "mara" to get gyan he does not know about Ram or his story. He does not know about Ram or his katha when he is told the story by Narada. By the time of Uttarkhand he is Ram's contemporary? How can that be? I have a problem with this timeline. If any of you have a better understanding of this, please clear my doubts.
If this topic was discussed earlier I apologize.
Originally posted by: Vibhishna
Sage Valmiki was born long before Lord Ram. The Divine Trinity, the powerful sages like the Saptha Rishis knew that Lord Vishnu will be born as Ram in the Tretha Yuga and he would be the hero of the age. His name would become the Universal manthra. (Note that the sixth and the seventh avtaars of Vishnu were named the same - Ram - one was Parashuram and the other was Dasharathi Ram). Hence, they initiated Ratnaka (Sage Valmiki) into chanting the manthra. Either they did not want to disclose the secret of the power of Lord Ram's name or they did not want to speak about what will happen in the future, they told Ratnakar to repeat 'MA- RA' - Ratnakar ended up saying RAMA RAMA RAMA.When the time came for him to end his penance, the sages came to wake him up from his penance. Since then he was known as Valmiki. Sage Valmiki heard about Lord Ram for the first time from Maharishi Narad. I do not know how much Maharishi Narad tells Sage Valmiki. In the stories it is mentioned that he tells Sage Valmiki till the coronation of Sri Ram (correct me if I am wrong). Sage Valmiki is said to have been blessed by Lord Brahma with divine vision to see the scenes of Sri Ram's life clearly and in detail. Then, he accepted Sita into his ashram. I think he must have written the Ramayana inbetween the time of Ram's coronation and Kush and Lav becoming 12 years old. I do not know if Valmiki himself sung the Ramayan in front of any gathering or if Kush and Lav are the first ones to sing it in public.This is my opinion. Please do let me know if there are other explanations.
@ Mandodari:
Originally posted by: Vibhishna
As for Indra performing the Ashwamedha Yagna, apart from this being the reason to get rid of Brahmahatya I have heard of another story that Mother Earth pleaded with the Brahmahatya to leave Indra for the sake of Sachhi Devi. But I'm not sure if this was the incident (for killing Vritra) or it was for Indra killing some other Brahman (I don't know if Indra killed some other Brahman too). Brahmahatya left Indra after much pleading by Mother Earth and warned that if Indra ever killed another Brahman, he wont escape her again.
Originally posted by: Chandraketu
I am red faced 😳😳😳- the Brahmin Indra killed wasn't Vritra (who was an asura), but Trisiras, the 3 headed son of Tvastha. Story goes that there was a fallout between Indra & Brihaspati, & the latter left Devalok. As a result, the asuras got the upper hand in their battles against the devas, and Indra needed a suitable guru. He approached Trisiras, the son of Tvastha, who also had asura parentage via his mother. So while Trisiras initially did the yagnas properly, the success of the devas actually saddened him, since the asuras were his mother's kith & kin. So he started doing the yagnas to benefit both devas & asuras, and soon, the devasura battles started becoming stalemates. Indra was perplexed at this situation, and then did an yagna which was to redeem that situation. In that yagna, Trisiras poured a spoon of ghee in for the devas, while chanting the mantras, but next, emptied the entire pot of ghee in for the asuras. Indra was furious and instantly beheaded Trisiras. His 3 heads became 3 birds (forget which type) that flew away. Rishi Tvastha divined what Indra had done, and created Vritra for the sake of killing him. Indra in turn got Rishi Dadhichi to sacrifice his life so that Indra could make a mace out of his bones: reason he needed this was that Dadhichi was the only rishi whose tapas matched that of Tvastha.
Bottom line - after Vritra was killed and it was all over, Indra did the ashwamedha to atone for the killing of Trisiras.
The ACK that has the story you mentioned was probably 'Indra & Sachi', as far as I can remember. The one that has the story I mentioned was 'Indra & Vritra'.Originally posted by: Vibhishna
The story I read was different (I think it was in ACK). I read that Indra made someone else do the act - of cutting of the heads of Trisiras. Indra was worried that if Trisiras had completed the penance he was doing, his position would become dangerous. Hence he convinced someone else - a woodcutter or some one - to cut off the heads.
I knew that Sage Dadichi was the one who gave up his life for the sake of killing Vritra, It was the Tunderbolt that was created from his bones (by Vishwakarma), sin't it? Indra was not on good terms with Sage Dadichi before this incident. But he had to ask for Sage Dadichi's bones and had no other way. Sage Dadichi's son got angry regarding this and vowed revenge . . . well, that is another story.So many versions and variations - it gets really confusing to keep track of them all.
In the Indra & Vritra version, Dadichi's bones were used to make a mace, which Indra then used throughtout his battle, to good effect. In the Indra & Sachi version, Indra, after being defeated by Vritra several times, had a truce with Vritra. Terms of the truce were that Indra could not kill Vritra with any weapon wet or dry, nor in day or night. On a twilight evening at the sea shore, Indra had a foam develop and Vishnu entered it, and that was neither wet nor dry, and the timing was perfect for Indra to kill Vritra. After he did, he underwent tapas for breaking his vow of friendship, and that was when the devas approached Nahusha to be their ruler.
In other words, Dadichi's bones were not used to make the thunderbolt.
Yeah, I've always wondered - why are they divided on this? What is the compelling evidence that the Uttarkand wasn't in the original Ramayan?Originally posted by: ananyacool
@ Mandodari:
Many scholars are divided on whether Uttar-kand is a later addition. Literally 'Uttar' itself means Extentionalso many suppporters of Ramayana believe that Uttarkand is very much written by valmiki and that it was like an "Appendix" to Ramayana.
And if it wasn't, how did Kush & Luv get to sing it first? Or is that also considered inauthentic?
Originally posted by: Chandraketu
The ACK that has the story you mentioned was probably 'Indra & Sachi', as far as I can remember. The one that has the story I mentioned was 'Indra & Vritra'.In the Indra & Vritra version, Dadichi's bones were used to make a mace, which Indra then used throughtout his battle, to good effect. In the Indra & Sachi version, Indra, after being defeated by Vritra several times, had a truce with Vritra. Terms of the truce were that Indra could not kill Vritra with any weapon wet or dry, nor in day or night. On a twilight evening at the sea shore, Indra had a foam develop and Vishnu entered it, and that was neither wet nor dry, and the timing was perfect for Indra to kill Vritra. After he did, he underwent tapas for breaking his vow of friendship, and that was when the devas approached Nahusha to be their ruler.
In other words, Dadichi's bones were not used to make the thunderbolt.
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