Drona - A True Guru or an Ambitious Person??

-Srushti- thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#1
Mein aa gai😛
But before I start my nonsense Rambling...Let me put the Disclamer:

Disclaimer: I am a Maha Murkh Praani, and Since I have declared myself the same, nobody needs to repeat it😛 My knowledge borders extinction and I might just be kicked out of the Forum for not having read the Scriptures: Any errors are human and I wont mind rectification...but if there is some good logic in the post, Requesting you Gyaani people to jump in to discuss and lead us into enlightenment!!



Drona...
The most famous Guru ...His fame (As per me) eclipsed the fame of Guru Samdipani ...mainly because the role of Dronacharya was longer and pivotal in the journey towards Kurukshetra...

Drona as most of the characters in Mahabharat had an unconventional birth...(amazing how Mahabharat seems to be the dictionary of unconventional births!!) and was not born out of a womb...

He went on to claim the half Kingdom that Drupada had promised him as a child...Not ssaying that Drupada's behaviour was exemplary. He was wrong...But I do believe that Drona took the humiliation to a level where he included a lot of people.
Asking a Guru Dakshina from his students, who belonged to a royal family, to attack Panchal was not a very noble agenda...To satisfy his own personal vengeance he used the men power and resources of a state which had sheltered him and used it to attack another state, whose citizens were no where liable for his personal insult...

Although may be the above can be said to be a lesson for all the mighty kings who consider themselves superior and above anybody...and Two Kings (As far I can recollect at this moment) suffered for insulting Brahmins in their Darbaar...One is Drupada and the other one would be Dhana Nanda...

But the few of his actions do put a question whether he was more bounden to the throne than the duties...
His apparent partiality towards Arjun which made him ask for the thumb of Eklavya as GuruDakshina...Rejecting Karna when he could see that Radhey had so much of skills...He forgot that he had faced similar rejection at the hands of Drupada..the difference between classes and status...

And ofcourse his alliance with the throne was so strong that he did not stop Draupadi Cheerharnan...The wife of his favourite student...
And most worst of his sin was Abhimanyu Vadh...the brutal killing of the sixteen year old was something nobody could forgive...
I still consider that Bheeshma might have been helpless and had to choose to fight on behalf of Kaurvas...but Drona had no alliance...It was not a fight between Hastinapur and others...it was a fight between the contenders for HAstinapur...he could have chosen the side of Dharma without any bindings...or he could have refrained from participating...
But he did...

Soemthing I think was not quite right...

Your thoughts??












Edited by -Srushti- - 11 years ago

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Bhavaani thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#2
Drona was bound by his love for his son Ashwathama. Ashwathama was jealous of Drona's love for Arjuna and Arjuna's skill, so he ended up allying himself with Duryodhan and Hastinapur. Drona and Kripa had no choice but to stick with him.

In answer to your question, I would say he was an ambitious person.A true guru would have tried to restrain the animosity between the students (i.e. Kauravas and Pandavas), whereas Drona used the ill feelings to breed competitiveness. His true colours come out in the war when Duryodhana makes Drona Pradhan Senapati. The attempt to capture Yidhishtira, the usage of astras on common foot soldiers and above all the killing of Abhimanyu are what strips him of his respect.

Coincidently Dronacharya is also a student of Parshuram.

p.s Nice post Srushti! You're right about Mahabharat being a hotspot for unconventional births! Drona was born from a water pot (some say shell).
Edited by Bhavaani - 11 years ago
-Srushti- thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#3

Originally posted by: Bhavaani

Drona was bound by his love for his son Ashwathama. Ashwathama was jealous of Drona's love for Arjuna and Arjuna's skill, so he ended up allying himself with Duryodhan and Hastinapur. Drona and Kripa had no choice but to stick with him.

Coincidently Dronacharya is also a student of Parshuram.

p.s Nice post Srushti! You're right about Mahabharat being a hotspot for unconventional births! Drona was born from a water pot (some say shell).

Bhavaani...Thanks...

About Ashwathma...yes his Moha for him was so great that it was what lead to his death...The news about Ashwathma;s death (Albeit false) was what led to his Vadha by Dhrushtadumna...

Even his first approach to Drupada for help was because allegedly he couldnot see Ashwathama in hunger...
Kripacharya was Kulguru so may be was bouden, But Drona had no bounden duty...and if he followed his son to the War field...he hardly could have blamed Dhitrashtra for being blind in his son's love which he had told so many times...


To achieve his goals, he was to a large extent brutal...Eklavya and Abhimanyu were the example of it...

On the other hand...his actions were pivotal in so many things...
Had he not sent Pandavas to defeat Dhrupad...Draupadi would not have come into existence...and the Cheerharan episode...and ofcourse his rejection of Karna would not have sent Karna to Parshuram and he would not have lied and not faced the curse which ultimately failed him in his last ultimate war!!
Amazing...the wheel of fate na??

about the unconventional births..Well...Except Krishna...there are hardly any characters of great importance who had normal births😆
Edited by -Srushti- - 11 years ago
mysterieux thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#4
The beauty of mahabharat is that all characters are real(apart from their surreal births...thats ok..creative license 😉)...they are people with good and the bad...noone is faultless or blamelesss
mahabharat teaches about making choices, about our sense of duty, about dharm, about sins, about ego, anger, jealousy, prejudice, however you interpret it it teaches about real life...and that is why even today its validity exists.
Now coming to your qs 😆...he may have all the qualities that make him great but his anger and his revenge were his downfall...he avenged Drupada who avenged him in the kurushektra...
he was ambitious but was also a good teacher...his disciples got the guidance from him that made them great...being human he made mistakes...and he paid a price for it...
Edited by mysterieux - 11 years ago
-Srushti- thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: mysterieux

The beauty of mahabharat is that all characters are real(apart from their surreal births...thats ok..creative license 😉)...they are people with good and the bad...noone is faultless or blamelesss

mahabharat teaches about making choices, about our sense of duty, about dharm, about sins, about ego, anger, jealousy, prejudice, however you interpret it it teaches about real life...and that is why even today its validity exists.
Now coming to your qs 😆...he may have all the qualities that make him great but his anger and his revenge were his downfall...he avenged Drupada who avenged him in the kurushektra...
he was ambitious but was also a good teacher...his disciples got the guidance from him that made them great...being human he made mistakes...and he paid a price for it...

I agree...They had all shades...they came from every background...and they were more real than any other character group!!
Mahabharat is a life teaching...nothing you face in life is there which isnt answered by Mahabarat

Dronacharya's avenging nature ...yes to a large extent..But I do believe that his ambitions were the ones which were more driving force..and ofcourse his obvious attachment towards his son...
timepass thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#6
I think Drona was more driven by his motives and his desire to avenge his insult. Drupad did not keep his promise which he made when he was a CHILD...Drona was naive enough to believe that a promise is a promise no matter a child or adult made it...but I don't understand why Drupad had to insult him?? He could have politely told Drona that childhood promises have no meanings...but Drona was driven by revenge...
Once revenge was completed, he wanted to make Arjun the greatest archer in the world...he could not see Eklavya bettering Arjun...so he asked for his thumb...thus living the promise that he gave to Arjun...a promise of greatest archer...

Then in Mahabharat battle, he could have easily sided with Pandavs but putra moh binded him with Duryodhan...he was reluctant to fight with Ajrun...that is why he wanted someone to take away Arjun from battle field so that he can trap Yudhishter...but Abhimanyu became the biggest hurdle...although he did not take part in Abhimanyu's killing but then since he was the General, he was responsible for it...

So though Drona was a great GURU and WARRIOR but his actions, his life were driven by motives and revenge...not pure soul...
BLR_babe thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#7
Every story in MB teaches us the choices we make and consequences of tht .. drona was never a true guru
takin Drona's story ..

Wanting a better life for his kid was not a bad thought .. but asking some one kingdom bcoz of a child hood promise is not wise
Drupada didnt have to insult a friend in public , no matter how ridiculous of favor he asked
Drona harvesting this hatred , using his pupils to extract humiliation for his vendetta is nothing but poor choice
Drupada being humiliated and accepting his folly and saying all is forgiven .. but still wanting to take revenge is not sign of a noble soul ..
even drona was blinded by putr prem ..

in end everyone suffered ... drona was weakened by his putr prem and was defeated .. Ashwatthama suffered .
Drupada lost his son in the most unheroic way and his daughter suffered throughout ..

Ps: sorry for rambling .. lost my thought in between writing 😕
Edited by BlrBabe - 11 years ago
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#8
I think I am one of the only people in this forum who do not blame Drona for asking Ekalavya's thumb!
I've always had a different opinion about this story. Ekalavya had gone to Dronacharya once and requested to become his student. Dronacharya denied him because of his birth. Is that wrong? Yes, perhaps, but we have to remember and respect the customs of those days. There was a lot of caste distinction and brahmins did not accept nishadas as their students. They only taught brahmins, kshatriyas, and I think also Vaishyas. Shudras and other lower castes were not taught in the gurukul system.

After being denied, Ekalavya should have gone to another guru and tried to gain admission there, if he was really ambitious and determined to study. Isn't that what Karna did? He grew up being a suta putra but that did not deter him from finding education somewhere, even if he had to travel far. In this matter, Karna was far better than Ekalavya, who resorted to deceit to get what he wanted.

It was not right for him to view Dronacharya's classes from afar and teach himself everything Drona was teaching his students. He was basically getting free education from a Guru who had denied him admission already, which was against dharma. Moreover, he told everyone he was a student of Dronacharya, which was an insult to the Guru, so when Dronacharya found out about Ekalavya, he decided to teach him a lesson.

I think Dronacharya asked Ekalavya his thumb for the following reasons.

1) Ekalavya could not get free education as it was against Gurukul dharma, so he had to pay Guru dakshina, that too a severe one as punishment for his deceit.

2) The nishadas of Hastinapur were a powerful ally. If Ekalavya grew up to become a powerful archer and supported Duryodhan in his misdeeds, there would be no stopping the Kauravas. Dronacharya was a far-sighted person and knew he had to prevent that.

3) Arjuna was his favorite student and he had promised him that none of his students would exceed him in prowess, so he had to fulfill his vow for the sake of his reputation.

4) Ekalavya was already using his archery to taunt others. When he saw the Pandavas and Kauravas one day, he wanted to show off his skills in front of them and shot many arrows into a stray dog's mouth to display that he could shoot multiple arrows at one time. That was downright cruelty to an innocent animal. 🤢 If he could misuse his skills towards innocent animals, then how could he be expected to follow Dharma against fellow humans? He had to be taught a lesson.

Thus, I do not fault Dronacharya for asking Ekalavya his thumb. Ekalavya was never a favorite character of mine. Dronacharya was an ambitious person, but in this case I do not find fault with him.
Edited by JanakiRaghunath - 11 years ago
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#9
Great topic 👍🏼

Originally posted by: -Srushti-

Drona...

The most famous Guru ...His fame (As per me) eclipsed the fame of Guru Samdipani ...mainly because the role of Dronacharya was longer and pivotal in the journey towards Kurukshetra...

Drona as most of the characters in Mahabharat had an unconventional birth...(amazing how Mahabharat seems to be the dictionary of unconventional births!!) and was not born out of a womb...


No, it was a case of something that I'm not sure I'm allowed to describe here...

Originally posted by: -Srushti-

He went on to claim the half Kingdom that Drupada had promised him as a child...Not saying that Drupada's behaviour was exemplary. He was wrong...But I do believe that Drona took the humiliation to a level where he included a lot of people.


On one hand, one could easily compare & contrast Drupada's treatment of Drona w/ Krishna's treatment of Sudama. Drona could have either accepted a cow as alms - like Drupada offered, or taken the message that Drupada didn't welcome any friendship w/ him, and left him and looked elsewhere. But he was ego driven @ Drupada's rejection. One thing he forgot - he was a Brahmin, not a kshatriya, and therefore, it was not considered undignified to accept alms from kings: indeed, that was how kings got a lot of their punyas.

Originally posted by: -Srushti-

Asking a Guru Dakshina from his students, who belonged to a royal family, to attack Panchal was not a very noble agenda...To satisfy his own personal vengeance he used the men power and resources of a state which had sheltered him and used it to attack another state, whose citizens were no where liable for his personal insult...


Actually, in both the cases, the Kauravas & the Pandavas fought w/o using the state army. Although one strange thing - Karna too fought alongside the Kauravas to help them attempt to capture Drupada, which was improper given that Drona had specifically denied Karna as a student. The Kauravas were supposed to achieve it on their own, like the Pandavas did. Other than the 5 brothers, nobody else fought alongside the Pandavas.

Originally posted by: -Srushti-

But the few of his actions do put a question whether he was more bounden to the throne than the duties...

His apparent partiality towards Arjun which made him ask for the thumb of Eklavya as GuruDakshina...Rejecting Karna when he could see that Radhey had so much of skills...He forgot that he had faced similar rejection at the hands of Drupada..the difference between classes and status...


Not just that, as a guru, he ought to have accepted anyone who was willing. On one hand, he accepted Drupada's sons, such as Drishtadyumna, who was born to kill him, as his pupil, but refused to accept Ekalavya or Karna. And like I mentioned above, since he had disallowed Karna admission, he should have forbidden the Kauravas from including him in their attempt to capture Drupada.

The ironic thing about his caste based preference was that he himself hardly performed any of the activities usually associated w/ Brahmins.

Originally posted by: -Srushti-

And ofcourse his alliance with the throne was so strong that he did not stop Draupadi Cheerharnan...The wife of his favourite student...

And most worst of his sin was Abhimanyu Vadh...the brutal killing of the sixteen year old was something nobody could forgive...


Not just that - the fact that his son, a Brahmin, thought it okay to massacre a sleeping army after the war had already been lost on his side, reveals the lack of culture on Drona's part - he simply didn't imbibe any. Also, Drona was no better than Dritarashtra when it came to putra moh - he gave Ashwatthama anything he wanted. Also, he made no judgement on whether it was necessary to teach someone else everything he knew. For instance, he could have avoided teaching the Brahmashira to anybody. He taught it to Arjun, then Ashwatthama wanted it, then he taught Ashwatthama as well. What was that weapon used for? Ashwatthama tried to use it to wipe out the Pandavas, Arjun only used it to block him, and Ashwatthama then diverted it to Uttara's womb 🤢 Had Drona taught neither of them this, Arjun would have been no worse off, Ashwatthama wouldn't have been jealous, and he would have been more easy to control

Yeah, that, and his conduct during the war was pretty vile. Like on day 6, he defeated Virata in battle, and Virata got on the chariot of his son Sankha & started fleeing. Drona fitted a poisoned arrow on his bow and killed Sankha, who was not fighting him.

Also, aside from the killing of Abhimanyu, on day 15, Drona started using divine weapons against ordinary Pandava soldiers. The rishis in heaven were aghast @ his deeds, & Narada went to him & condemned him. It was this act that prompted Krishna to suggest that Drona be lied to & killed - Krishna did nothing like that the previous 4 days that Drona was in command.

Originally posted by: -Srushti-

I still consider that Bheeshma might have been helpless and had to choose to fight on behalf of Kaurvas...but Drona had no alliance...It was not a fight between Hastinapur and others...it was a fight between the contenders for HAstinapur...he could have chosen the side of Dharma without any bindings...or he could have refrained from participating...

But he did...


Yeah, and all for the sake of fulfilling his perverse dream of facing Arjun in battle. If he wanted that, he could have arranged an individual 1-1 battle w/ him, instead of joining the side of evil in a war.

Note that in the war, the bulk of Kaurava casualties happened @ the hands of Bhima & Arjun, while on the other side, the bulk of casualties were inflicted by Drona and then Ashwatthama. By comparison, what Bheeshma, Karna or Kripa did was pretty insignificant.

Back to the original point, while Drona was the most visible guru, I don't consider him a great, or even a good, guru. I'd think of gurus like Vashistha, Brihaspati, Sukhracharya and others, if one wants great gurus. But Drona or Parashurama would never make it in my list.
Edited by .Vrish. - 11 years ago
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#10
One thing I never understood was why Dronacharya was obligated to fight for the Kauravas. 😕 The reason the epic gives is that he felt indebted to them since Hastinapur gave him a home, food, and shelter, but it's not like he took it all for free. He gave the Kuru children an education in return, so neither was he indebted to Hastinapur, nor was Hastinapur indebted to him. After the education of the Pandavas and Kauravas was over, Dronacharya's ties to Hastinapur were pretty much over. He was not at all obligated to fight in the war, unlike Bhishma who did have a pretty valid reason, whether we agree it or not.

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