Drona - A True Guru or an Ambitious Person?? - Page 2

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Actually, I've read the MB hard, and have not located a place where Bheeshma was duty bound to fight for the Kauravas.

Originally posted by: JanakiRaghunath

I think I am one of the only people in this forum who do not blame Drona for asking Ekalavya's thumb! An interesting POV, JR...

I've always had a different opinion about this story. Ekalavya had gone to Dronacharya once and requested to become his student. Dronacharya denied him because of his birth. Is that wrong? Yes, perhaps, but we have to remember and respect the customs of those days. There was a lot of caste distinction and brahmins did not accept nishadas as their students. They only taught brahmins, kshatriyas, and I think also Vaishyas. Shudras and other lower castes were not taught in the gurukul system.

Although, I deprecate differentiation of any kind within students, I do accept that Drona had a right to choose his students...My main contention is that if he so believed in the caste system, why did he resent Drupada for not considering him as equal or for not fulfilling his childhood promise? Wouldnt that be, in my humble opinion, coined as Hypocrisy??

After being denied, Ekalavya should have gone to another guru and tried to gain admission there, if he was really ambitious and determined to study. Isn't that what Karna did? He grew up being a suta putra but that did not deter him from finding education somewhere, even if he had to travel far. In this matter, Karna was far better than Ekalavya, who resorted to deceit to get what he wanted. Eklavya belonged to a tribe and I dont think they were very well off...and Eklavya had a right to choose his guru just like Drona had a right to reject him...Eklvavya did not resort to deceit (MY POV) he just made the best of what he could have...

It was not right for him to view Dronacharya's classes from afar and teach himself everything Drona was teaching his students. He was basically getting free education from a Guru who had denied him admission already, which was against dharma. Moreover, he told everyone he was a student of Dronacharya, which was an insult to the Guru, so when Dronacharya found out about Ekalavya, he decided to teach him a lesson. Knowledge has to be free...the Privatization is and always a abhorring thing ..Everybody has a right to be educated.

I think Dronacharya asked Ekalavya his thumb for the following reasons.

1) Ekalavya could not get free education as it was against Gurukul dharma, so he had to pay Guru dakshina, that too a severe one as punishment for his deceit.

Deceit would be a strong word...and punishment should not have been to maime anyone for ever...even Parshuram's curse was not so severe...and if Drona believed that he did not give any Shiksha to him he could not have asked for the Dakshina...and if he did consider Eklavya to be his student, he should not have considered it as a deceit...

2) The nishadas of Hastinapur were a powerful ally. If Ekalavya grew up to become a powerful archer and supported Duryodhan in his misdeeds, there would be no stopping the Kauravas. Dronacharya was a far-sighted person and knew he had to prevent that. It is funny that he maimed Eklavya for the reason that he would support Duryodhan yet he followed his own son to the battlefield to support the same Duryodhana...

3) Arjuna was his favorite student and he had promised him that none of his students would exceed him in prowess, so he had to fulfill his vow for the sake of his reputation. My POV is the same story..if you want to top anyone...dont rub out their line...make your line longer...he should have put better efforts in making Arjuna the world best Archer...not the otherway round...

4) Ekalavya was already using his archery to taunt others. When he saw the Pandavas and Kauravas one day, he wanted to show off his skills in front of them and shot many arrows into a stray dog's mouth to display that he could shoot multiple arrows at one time. That was downright cruelty to an innocent animal. 🤢 If he could misuse his skills towards innocent animals, then how could he be expected to follow Dharma against fellow humans? He had to be taught a lesson.Well, As per what I read...Eklavya had put the arrows in such a way that the dog was not injured..infact it was that very fact that had astonishment...because anybody could have closed the mouth of the dog, but doing in a way that would not injure him was something out of ordinary..In fact Tribals are known for respecting the nature and animals much more than the rest...

Thus, I do not fault Dronacharya for asking Ekalavya his thumb. Ekalavya was never a favorite character of mine. Dronacharya was an ambitious person, but in this case I do not find fault with him. My POV in blue 😃 Although I dont agree with you, It really made an interesting debate :)

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Great topic 👍🏼 thanks Vrish...my comments in blue😳

No, it was a case of something that I'm not sure I'm allowed to describe here...

Yes yes It cannot be described here...😆

On one hand, one could easily compare & contrast Drupada's treatment of Drona w/ Krishna's treatment of Sudama. Drona could have either accepted a cow as alms - like Drupada offered, or taken the message that Drupada didn't welcome any friendship w/ him, and left him and looked elsewhere. But he was ego driven @ Drupada's rejection. One thing he forgot - he was a Brahmin, not a kshatriya, and therefore, it was not considered undignified to accept alms from kings: indeed, that was how kings got a lot of their punyas.

You know that is what I said in reply to JR...That when it comes to his equation with Drupada, he forgot the caste system, But when he was in the controlling position, the caste and all came back to him...

Actually, in both the cases, the Kauravas & the Pandavas fought w/o using the state army. Although one strange thing - Karna too fought alongside the Kauravas to help them attempt to capture Drupada, which was improper given that Drona had specifically denied Karna as a student. The Kauravas were supposed to achieve it on their own, like the Pandavas did. Other than the 5 brothers, nobody else fought alongside the Pandavas.

I actually found two version of this...There are some sources where some say that armies were involved and some where only Kaurvas and only Pandavas were involved...

Not just that, as a guru, he ought to have accepted anyone who was willing. On one hand, he accepted Drupada's sons, such as Drishtadyumna, who was born to kill him, as his pupil, but refused to accept Ekalavya or Karna. And like I mentioned above, since he had disallowed Karna admission, he should have forbidden the Kauravas from including him in their attempt to capture Drupada.

The ironic thing about his caste based preference was that he himself hardly performed any of the activities usually associated w/ Brahmins. Drona was no noble hearted person...that said I am not saying that he was bad!! He had circumstances ...but his vices like his blind love for his son and also his ambition just did away with his good things..and that is why Krishna thought it was would be right to do his Vadha..

Not just that - the fact that his son, a Brahmin, thought it okay to massacre a sleeping army after the war had already been lost on his side, reveals the lack of culture on Drona's part - he simply didn't imbibe any. Also, Drona was no better than Dritarashtra when it came to putra moh - he gave Ashwatthama anything he wanted. Also, he made no judgement on whether it was necessary to teach someone else everything he knew. For instance, he could have avoided teaching the Brahmashira to anybody. He taught it to Arjun, then Ashwatthama wanted it, then he taught Ashwatthama as well. What was that weapon used for? Ashwatthama tried to use it to wipe out the Pandavas, Arjun only used it to block him, and Ashwatthama then diverted it to Uttara's womb 🤢 When it came to his son, he forgot the eligibility criteria...He did not think that is Aswatthama a right person who could be given these secrets to?? In these matters he was blind in his Putra Moha jsut as much as Dhittu...Had Drona taught neither of them this, Arjun would have been no worse off, Ashwatthama wouldn't have been jealous, and he would have been more easy to control

Yeah, that, and his conduct during the war was pretty vile. Like on day 6, he defeated Virata in battle, and Virata got on the chariot of his son Sankha & started fleeing. Drona fitted a poisoned arrow on his bow and killed Sankha, who was not fighting him.

Also, aside from the killing of Abhimanyu, on day 15, Drona started using divine weapons against ordinary Pandava soldiers. The rishis in heaven were aghast @ his deeds, & Narada went to him & condemned him. It was this act that prompted Krishna to suggest that Drona be lied to & killed - Krishna did nothing like that the previous 4 days that Drona was in command Bheeshma's fall actually indicated the fall of the values in the war...it was only Bheeshma who had bound the war with his Iccha Mrityu and his values...After him, the values just went for a spin...Drona wanted to win...and Abhimanyu vadha was one such incident!! He killed a Sixteen year old ...the son of his favourite student ...with absolute brutality...

Yeah, and all for the sake of fulfilling his perverse dream of facing Arjun in battle. If he wanted that, he could have arranged an individual 1-1 battle w/ him, instead of joining the side of evil in a war.

Note that in the war, the bulk of Kaurava casualties happened @ the hands of Bhima & Arjun, while on the other side, the bulk of casualties were inflicted by Drona and then Ashwatthama. By comparison, what Bheeshma, Karna or Kripa did was pretty insignificant.

Back to the original point, while Drona was the most visible guru, I don't consider him a great, or even a good, guru. I'd think of gurus like Vashistha, Brihaspati, Sukhracharya and others, if one wants great gurus. But Drona or Parashurama would never make it in my list.Yes he is the most long living character ..atleast the ones which started from the Pandavas return to Hastinapur to the ultimate war!! And yes, I read that he was cautioned before he joined the war too..that has a guru he cannot join the war..and was cursed for the very fact that he ignored the warning...

Originally posted by: JanakiRaghunath

One thing I never understood was why Dronacharya was obligated to fight for the Kauravas. 😕 The reason the epic gives is that he felt indebted to them since Hastinapur gave him a home, food, and shelter, but it's not like he took it all for free. He gave the Kuru children an education in return, so neither was he indebted to Hastinapur, nor was Hastinapur indebted to him. After the education of the Pandavas and Kauravas was over, Dronacharya's ties to Hastinapur were pretty much over. He was not at all obligated to fight in the war, unlike Bhishma who did have a pretty valid reason, whether we agree it or not.

Originally posted by: india2050

Bheeshma was duty bound to protect the person who sits on the throne of Hastinapur, which was Dhritarashtra.

Technically the Pandavas were attacking Hastinapur and hence Bheeshma was duty bound to support Kauravas

This is the best I could come up with, waiting for a better explanation.

Regarding Dronacharya. I agree with many who have posted here that he was vain. He was partial. I go with the opinion that he sided with Kauravas because he got all this fame and money only because of the person who was on the throne of Hastinapur and that happened to be Dhritarashtra.

Despite all opposition to Drona and some to Ekalavya, our govt does not think it that way. Apart from Arjun awards there are also Dronacharya and Ekalavya awards given.