Jodha Akbar 92: It was a mirage, after all - Page 24

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sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Yes, Lashy, do that. Have you seen my response to you above? My suggestion for the title sounds too much like one of mine. But do put it out instanter, there is a good girl!

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: lashy


I'm using this title!😛



Originally posted by: Autumn_Rose


Jalal doesn't get mad, he gets even 😆


sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
No, Lashy, they will/ For one thing the name is yours, and you have a very loyal readership. Second the title is catchy. Third if so many can survive 3-4 pagers, surely they will not find it long at all: I have trained them well and increased their attention span, beginning with young Riyyya!😉

Lastly, once they begin, they will not be able to stop.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: lashy

Have done so aunty😊

Don't know if people'd be in the mood to give that tedious post a read through...😆 since the anticipation is entirely for something else now...

lashy thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: sashashyam

No, Lashy, they will/ For one thing the name is yours, and you have a very loyal readership. Second the title is catchy. Third if so many can survive 3-4 pagers, surely they will not find it long at all: I have trained them well and increased their attention span, beginning with young Riyyya!😉

Lastly, once they begin, they will not be able to stop.


Oh you mean (2)9 year old Riyya 😆 yes yes...

For the rest of your comments - > sweet sweet sweet🤗



sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Thank you. my dear Surya, but I for one am glad that I did blow my top and got it all out of my system then, and came back to normal over the next 2 days, with some vital help from Alakh, Tripti and now Lashy.

As for your bolded part, we have both been in agreement on that for a long while now.

Shyamala


Originally posted by: sun29


i just finished reading 29 pages of this post..😆...thank God i did not blow my lid on jodha on wednesday coz somehow i have accustomed myself to cvs way of thinking...they jump from one extreme to another and seeing the last scene of the wednesday episode it just proved Jalal has come much beyond his beg hum's taunts ,arrogance ,rudeness and Amer jaap

Shyamala 🤗..hope you have cooled down ...cvs love to play with viewers hence when there was a collective sigh of relief that the elephant promo did not play out ,then they went one step ahead and gave us that scene on wednesday ...it is like you are not allowed to sit back and relax...either fret or fume

@lashy...awesome take and yes this is how he is giving her the big sazaa not some fake love thing...he is making her do everything she detests doing ...not only is this his sweet revenge but also he has started exerting his rights on her ..no more let us stay as civil hubby wife anymore...she is his wife and if he wants to lust over her ,seduce her ,he is not going to be apologetic over that but do it right in her face...

jalal is no idiot...he knows she cares hence he keeps on pricking her about it and is hardly affected what she says..he still corners her and asks her the same question again and again...if she refuses to bend ,he has decided to lean over and there is nothing she can do about it...

jalal is a man of action more than words...if he has decided that he wants this relationship to go the next level and his beghum to get off her high horse ,then he will do it ...she is his challenge ,his obsession and something more on its way ...

she gets the leverage because he allows it ,hence i did not feel anything wrong with that first scene...it was within the four walls between a brattish hubby and his nakchadi wife...jalal desires her very much and he is not hiding it ,not even from her ..he has always been forthright even in his hatred ,revenge ..so he is equally forthright in his need for her to care for him and treat him like her husband in every sense

and i honestly want jodha to fall in love first inspire of all her fears of not being loved back or being used and thrown as MA and ruqaiyya have instilled in her mind..inspite of all this i want her to fall in love with her Shahenshah

KDR81 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Hi Shyamala and Lashy,
Gr8 take undoubtedly...😊 Yesterday I had shared my view with MKM's post where somehow both smelled a rat in the epi...( and did not feel the portrayal entirely Funny or Romantic) Here's a glimpse of the convo ...

Posted: 24 October 2013 at 3:22pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by MoronsKiMallika
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Originally posted by KDR81

Hi Dear,
I am so very happy that you too have caught the same strange smell which Jalaal's Expression and Action gave off today.😲.!!! AND that was NOT of a person being LATTU or ROMANTIC...😕 (As most of the Forum waasis have thought it to be...) I found it rather like a Carnivore Zeroing on his Pray...and sniffing and tasting the skin of the Hapless Prey...!!😈
Indeed he was very naughty and Hotty both playing Sazaa-Dandh Game with his Baaghin 😉...but somewhere his eyes and face flashed that his intentions are not exactly Chhichhora in literal sense, but had much deeper Carnal insinuations😳... And I doubt whether that's going to be an easy ride for Jodha from now onwards...😛
(Dekha jaye toh, kuch bhi karke Jalaal ne Jodha ko Ek saath Sone pe, Khane pe, Rehne pe , Massage n Touch karne pe aur Bare body dekhne pe majboor toh kiya na...??? And in such a way that Jodha can't even complain of forcing...

Now , the question which comes to my mind is that , All of us were feeling for Jalaal's acts of kindness and Tolerance around Jodha and her Family...NOW was his intention totally saint-like as far as Jodha was concerned ?😳? If NOT, WHAT WILL BE THE PRICE HE WILL EXTRACT FROM JODHA??( Her family is obviously now fully gaga on him , so no one to support Jo )
I always find that our Jalaal likes doing things having Multi-benefits 😃

Regards,
Kamal
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Thanks Kamal and we are on the same boat from the 'Life of Pi'.😆...Look, i totally love Jalaal but I have no blind faith in him and I refuse to believe him on anything unless he words it with a face that emanates honesty. Yep, i love his lion and deer , puppy and madam game with Jodha , and it does seem that he will do anything to win Jodha... WIN Jodha... love? THE FUTURE IS SPLIT WIDE OPEN.

As for the thought process. Its pretty simple. Jalaal is someone whose mind and heart do not work in sync, They are bifurcated. Jalaal has 101% control over his mind but his heart is charting its own course. Maybe all his moves are calculated , maybe they are not. The point being that when Jalaal is in the moment or in the act, he is TRULY living it unknown to his mind, His admiration and leverage and lenience to Jodha is genuine in feeling , if not intention.

Its like I 'think' that am playing you, but whatever emotional catharsis am going through is true in feeling. And if at all Jalaal is trying to do all this, he is not only going to damage Jodha, he will put himself through a purgatory as well. You cannot deal with your own heart doing a volteface on you.

Anyway, its only a possibility and it may not happen at all... HOPEFULLY.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Right....Amen To the Hope then😃 ( U never know with Ms.EK😕)...As, if it's the other way round,then I simply shudder to think of following 100 episodes of Jodha's Newly Polished "Ghrinaa", "Dayaa","Anuchit Karya" ,"Pashu" and Blah Blah Bhaasans and Gallons of Tears accentuated with Vase smashing,Dupatta spoiling,Dress Burning and pataa nahi kya kya that we may have to endure...🤢

Now, After the 5th time watch of the scenes, I simply adore the Jalaal in the Tilak scene😃(rather than the Push-Ups😕)...and Jodha too...Jodha's gesture was too cute and too caring & intimate...knowingly or unknowingly, she IS becoming the caring wife Jalaal needs...Pity that probably both are in the "I think I do not care..."mode😛 , even if for different Agendas😉... two sides of the same Coin...!!😊

-------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
Kamal

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
My very dear friends,

I have not done any posts after this one, either for 93 or 94, the latter mainly because the only aspect about which I have a radically different take from the roseate romanticism flooding the forum over the weekend, would not justify a full post.

In any case, once one decides that all of Jodha's acts of commission and omission are governed solely her hidden pyaar for the Shahehshah, which she is held to be deliberately masking, when with him, with her arrogance and her obtuseness, there is nothing that one cannot explain or explain away. For others, there is not arguing with this approach, for it is a self-fulfilling one.

Unless of course Jodha does an about turn again tonight or the day after, when Jalal, as is very likely, refuses to believer her 'evidence' against Sharifuddin and Adhan (Badiammi is sacrosanct for Jalal, and Jodha, if she has any commonsense, would do well to leave her out of her prosecutor's brief).

To revert, this is, firstly, to thank you all very much for bearing with my vitriolic post of Wednesday night, and for offering so many well thought out comments, almost unanimously endorsing, and almost as vehemently as I had done, my reaction to Jodha's unbelievably harsh and unfeeling words to Jalal in that episode.

I was also very pleased to see a similar, if not quite as unanimous reaction to Jalal's sudden about face, from the restrained but deep bitterness in the scene with Jodha, to the chichorapan of the end, when he was planning to watch Jodha Begum's nritya (his charming, awkward attempts to get the word right were, to me the only saving grace of that segment).

To tell you the truth, I was even more dismayed by the prospect of a Jalal running after Jodha regardless of the way she treated him, than about Jodha's misbehaviour, for I had by them stopped expecting anything much of her. My post on Episode 91 was a sort of last ditch hope, and by the end this episode 92, that hope had died.

Next, to apologise for not responding individually, as I always try to do, to these comments. I was not in for most of the weekend, and then again, it seemed to be too late by then. But I could not let all those comments go unanswered, whence this omnibus response, bringing things up to Fridays 's Episode 94.

So here goes, and those short of time, or patience, or both, can move down to the part marked Episode 94!

Post Episode 92: My state of mind on Thursday morning was perhaps best summed up in what I wrote on Meghana' s thread: I think one can twist oneself into knots trying to explain the Jalal and the Jodha one saw last night, and still get nowhere.She was appalling, and what appalls me even more is the warm approval for her behaviour that seems to be so widespread here, of course with a gentle little caveat to say that it was ok, all that she said, only it should have been said a little more gently. I am sure that even had she stabbed him with a stiletto, there would be explanations that she spared him pain by not hacking at him with a blunt axe.😉

Episode 93 (Thursday): 'I' stands for Inconsistency:

What followed on Thursday was partly dismaying, partly reassuring. To my mind, what the Jodha-Jalal scene is Episode 93 showed is the yoyo tendency among the script writers, leading to a total inconsistency of characterisation for both Jalal and, even more so, for Jodha.

The scene the day before was very unpleasant, but it was in a way mature in its very off putting harshness, like something out of Who is afraid of Virginia Woolf?

Thursday had the two of them doing a Govinda-Karishma Kapoor impersonation.

I was more startled than anything else to see Rajat do a Govinda without any warning, and I, frankly, as an old fuddy duddy of GenPrevious, who feels awkward with double entendres and the like,
did not like it. It could easily have been scripted sensually instead of like a version of sarkaiyo khatiya jaada lage!

I never watched IPKKND but the odd episode, but I can visualise how Arnav Singh Raizada would have wooed a reluctant bride. Not like this, I am sure. Rajat should have been grateful that his dress probably prevented the CVs from demanding that he go whole hog with the Govinda act and do pelvic thrusts as well, horror of horrors!😉

It was not really vulgar, and it was quite funny, but I would definitely have preferred more intelligent if even more aggressive sensuality. And of course Rajat was marvellous, but what is new there? The boy is a perennial source of wonderment to me.

Partly reassuring because, and this came to me as a profound relief, Jalal did not turn into a lovesick poodle, as I had feared, nor did they make him do a Salman Khan in HAHK , with a dupatta over his shahi pagdi! Yes, yes, I know that would never have been an option, but given the shock that Jodha gave me the day before, I have become profoundly distrustful of even these CVs, generally far superior to the run of the mill lot at Balaji.

I was very happy that Jalal was dominating, unsettling, and even,as Vicki put it so well last night, predatory. Anything, even this Govinda act, is better than Jalal as a doormat to be walked over.

This said, the total lack of consistency in Jodha's characterisation was bewildering. Watch her in the kahin bhi jaake mariye, par hamare Amer mein nahin scene, lecturing him on her life and his, and look at her the very day!

They have obviously never heard of either progressive track development or of intelligent romance. It has to be the icebox or the khatiya, it seems, nothing in between. Alas for my hopes of a Jalal-Jodha between whom there is mutual caring and affection developing, slowly but surely...an edgy friendship morphing, insensibly, into love, with all its yearnings, its restlessness, the misunderstandings, the jealousies, the protectiveness and the possessiveness, and beneath it all, the undercurrent of a hidden sensuality.

I suppose I should be grateful if Ekta does not decide to graduate from the Govinda template and borrow scenes from her contemporary horror shows like Kya kool hai hum in future episodes!

Episode 94 (Friday): 'I' stands for Integrity:

The outpouring of relief and joy across the forum, after Jodha's ringing endorsement of the Shahenshah's refusal to hand over the Ratanpur fort, was directly proportional to their residual worries, the Govinda-Karishma stunt notwithstanding, that there would be a reversion of the cold war between them over this issue.

There was a near unanimous attribution of her endorsement of Jalal's stand on the fort to her caring, if not love as yet, for him, and her protectiveness of him, and never mind if neither of these was anywhere in evidence on Wednesday night. She was just keeping them carefully under wraps, you see!😉

As for Jalal, the forum was in ecstasy over his referring to her as apni Jodha Begum.

My own take on this episode is quite different, and if you consider it carefully, you might agree with me that this take is more consistent with Jodha's yoyo like behaviour over the last week.

To my mind, however, nothing of what Jodha - or Jalal for that matter - does in this episode is dependent on the current state of their relationship. It is solely a question of the personal integrity of each of them.

Jalal would have called her apni Jodha Begum in any case, for that is what she is. Remember what he tells Mahaam in that quasi-soliloquy about ek hi kashti mein sawaar? She is his legally wedded wife, and so is entitled to all the public and private respect that goes with that position. As for the possessive adjective, what else would she be but his Jodha Begum? He would not refer to her as if she was some casual outsider.

As for Jodha, she defends Jalal because of her sense of right and wrong is always very clear. She knows that he is a man of his word, and so she backs him by saying that HE did not give this promise. It need have nothing to do with a greater understanding of what it means to be an emperor, as man are happily concluding. In fact I am pretty sure it does not.

As I wrote to Lashy in response to her question on her thread, it is not just a question of Jodha's personal integrity but of her assessment of the Shahenshah's personal integrity as well. She knows that he has kept every promise he ever made to her, even when it was something that went completely against the grain for him. As he never tires of repeating, the Shahenshah's word is patthar ki lakeer. So, it is but natural that she defends him on the promise issue, affirming that if he said he had not given that promise, it meant that he had not. This does not need any new and warm personal feelings for him on her part at all; it is her objective assessment of Jalal's persona.

The only change now is that she does not deny or contradict , as was her habit earlier, whatever good she has learnt about him from his behaviour, and dismiss it by saying "Isme bhi unki koyi chal hogi" As no one can prove a negative, she was home and dry, and did not need to face up to facts at all.

But she now takes it all at face value, that he has been a man of integrity in the matter of Sukanya's marriage as well. The elaborate statement of backup arguments to buttress her affirmation is the same, though in a different context, as the arguments she once offered against the execution of Abdul.

That she perceives and accepts Jalal'a integrity is obviously the cumulative impact of a number of recent happenings: his not having uttered a word of blame to her for the narnaal fiasco, his epiphany at Ajmer which makes her conclude that he too is a man of God, and finally what he did to fulfil her sankalp during the Kali Mandir visit. But still, at the end of the day, it comes round to her faith in his integrity, in being what he appears to be.

Secondly, her stand against the demand for the durg need have nothing to do with anything she feels for Jalal, any more that Pratap's identical reaction has. She thinks such extortionate and improper demands are disgraceful, and that the Dhawalgarh lot have no right to demand as part of the kanyadhan something that does not belong to Amer and is thus not theirs to give, and she says so.

It is another matter that, with her usual disregard for logic, she brushes aside the point repeatedly made by Bhagwan Das, that it is not now a question of whom the fort belongs to, but of a promise made, if not by the Shahenshah, then on his behalf, and thus of the violation of that promise.

There is nothing new in her opposing her own family. She did it even for Abdul, remember? She marches to the sound of her own drummer.

So do both Jalal and Pratap. The latter was superlative on Friday, and Jalal was all Emperor, at long last. His looking at Jodha just before he leaves the assembly, a look that conveys both his inability to do anything else and his regret at that, is his only concession to his personal ties to those involved.

All this said, I am getting to be rather tired of all this parsing every look and every word of this couple in 9 columns, as we used to do in my schooldays in English grammar classes.

This seems, increasingly, to be all the more pointless as the character graphs oscillate wildly from episode to episode, as far as the Jalal-Jodha equations are concerned.

But their sense of personal integrity is a constant. It is like the difference between those grossly misleading promos and a precap. I thus prefer to base myself on this integrity angle to try and explain what each, and especially Jodha, does.

Need for voice-overs in Jodha's solo scenes: Lastly, I agree with Lashy that there is a sad lack of any voice overs showing Jodha arguing with herself or mulling things over, about Jalal and otherwise.

I have long felt the same, and I have written in the past about this absence of such an inner voice, in the solo scenes for Jodha, being a roadblock when the viewers try to understand what makes her tick. The only exception to this was the Green Jodha /Yellow Jodha scene, but that was a one shot affair, never repeated. Jalal has the occasional scene of him ruminating and thinking aloud. Jodha, never, bar that one exception.

This should be rectified, but it will not be. This will be, to my mind, not because the CVs are not sure of themselves. It seems rather to be because they want to keep open the one step forwards, 2 steps backwards option. Otherwise, how will they churn out 500 episodes?

Shyamala

PS: The Dhawalgarh Raja looks like a character out of Ratatouille. There is something very ratlike about his face. don't you agree?😉
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Posted: 11 years ago
🤣 @your PS, aunty!! I completely agree!! That's exactly what I was thinking too!!


It is a momentous happening in any case, Jodha defending Jalal against her family. She did it for Abdul out of her deep sense of compassion & Moral Code. But the whole meaning changes when it comes to Jalal, because she treats him completely & totally different than all the rest.

She believes , or atleast used to believe, very bitterly , that Jalal was never a Man Of Honour. Of Commitment . Brushing aside every instance that proved exactly the opposite & brought Jodha to the Reality!

It was upto Moti Bai to tell her time & again, "Hey! hold your high & grand horses Jodha! Your husband, the Emperor, has fulfilled every wish of yours! Moreover, he is your husband. Of course he will listen to you out of the bond that you formed with him in Saambhar , and because he has shown himself time & again, as a man who honours every vachan he takes."

Jodha breaks many rules when it comes to Jalal. Of her own personal codes of functioning.

To see her, go up against her own family & go as far as saying, "Hum Shahenshaah ke saath hain" in effect stating, that if you agree with this gross barter exchange taking place; then I , Jodha, do not side with you, but with my husband, is a seemingly small, but huge, development. 😊


And while I do not agree that it has only to do with her hidden (yes, she does feel for Jalal & yes, she tries her best to hide. It it isn't my rosy romantic nature which believes this, but plain sense can see it too) care for Jalal; but out of her own strong belief that he is a true man who sticks to every promise made. If he didn't make this promise, then he did not. And no-one has the right to take away what is his, from him.


And this way is much, much better. For Jodha can never truly love a man unless he has his own sound & strong Honour & Committment to Word. Now that she has realised it, she is well on her way to falling in love with Jalal. 😊

It had to come from her & come this way, the way it did. Not from the blind care of a woman who is in love with her husband. Which Jodha certainly isn't as of now. But from a very compassionate, strong & honourable young woman who recognises these qualities in a man who happens to be her husband. 😊


A very, very well-done scene!
september12 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: sashashyam


Otherwise, how will they churn out 500 episodes?


this is the only thing that is on the writers minds.


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