Is the Indian Education system good? - Page 4

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

I wouldnt think best and britghest american kids are the nest in teh world..its probably the west european kids... the problem with american kids is too much of rule base thinking.. nio wonder there is somebody sittin out there makeing terminoilogies like "think outside the box" which is most relevant for american kids... free-form thnking is almost absent.. sometimes is not important to ask questions - its important to ask the right questions... having said this i dont think indian kids score anywhere in this department... either..

it's hard to define things like creativity and brilliance, but if you go by various yardsticks then i contend that the best of the lot in america are indeed brighter. look at the number of PhDs/ research papers, the number of inventions, the number of steve jobs and edisons, the internet/ computer inventions. all of europe added together wld be a distant second at best. u cld attribute that to US immigrants, the openness to assimilating new ideas and cultures (as opposed to narrow-minded european provincial outlook), to the opportunities, to an environment where the best can thrive, to affluence etc, but i believe US leads on various "bright" criteria. also European affluence is too fragmented to acheive economies of scale, whether in academic or commercial research .

that said, i feel most of the perceived problems with indian education are lack of sufficient number of schools and colleges per capita. that forces colleges to admit students based on objective standardized criteria, which is very susceptible to rote-method of learning. there's then not much room for admitting kids with diverse talents who might actually be more bright and creative in their own ways. but ultimately if you're fortunate to be in one of those IITs or AIIMs or St Stephen's, you're going to shine relative to most of your counterparts elsewhere (other than the brightest in america).

but then, what the heck do i know😊

Originally posted by: chatbuster

it's hard to define things like creativity and brilliance, but if you go by various yardsticks then i contend that the best of the lot in america are indeed brighter. look at the number of PhDs/ research papers, the number of inventions, the number of steve jobs and edisons, the internet/ computer inventions. all of europe added together wld be a distant second at best. u cld attribute that to US immigrants, the openness to assimilating new ideas and cultures (as opposed to narrow-minded european provincial outlook), to the opportunities, to an environment where the best can thrive, to affluence etc, but i believe US leads on various "bright" criteria. also European affluence is too fragmented to acheive economies of scale, whether in academic or commercial research .

that said, i feel most of the perceived problems with indian education are lack of sufficient number of schools and colleges per capita. that forces colleges to admit students based on objective standardized criteria, which is very susceptible to rote-method of learning. there's then not much room for admitting kids with diverse talents who might actually be more bright and creative in their own ways. but ultimately if you're fortunate to be in one of those IITs or AIIMs or St Stephen's, you're going to shine relative to most of your counterparts elsewhere (other than the brightest in america).

but then, what the heck do i know😊

Jobs, Edison, gates all have humble backgrounds from lack of education to, under-graduate to being a drop-out... which infact corroborate my thought that just education and tools to do research has little to do with "real" research, of course they may add a tremendous value to that effort. Of except for edison other two became entrepreneurs..

There is an interesting thing if you observe closely most known "Great men" in any field have been born outside the US but possibly died or acheived major success in US, Einstein, Darwin, chaplin... which makes me think US doesnt provide enough good education in earlier years but provides an avenue for free thinking in later years....again this deficit is because of their strong adherence to rule-based or canned thinking...Of course MIT has some of brilliant guys around. .all i am saying just coming out of MIT doesnt retain their brilliance .. thats where germans, swedish, and other western europeans score on continual research.....😊 I think americans score on wealth generation, Gates, waltons, buffet.. and we have our own Laxmi mittal to counter that...😊

Of course when I talk of research I mean meaningful research.. not the fad research associated with inventing ipod, tivo, phone with ipod, camera, kleenex, cigarette holder, ketchup dispenser while having fries and on the phone 😆and other convenience crap...cancer, diabetes, alzheimers, and other challenging ailments, math, astrophysics, and... related fields doing some serious research..

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

Jobs, Edison, gates all have humble backgrounds from lack of education to, under-graduate to being a drop-out... which infact corroborate my thought that just education and tools to do research has little to do with "real" research, of course they may add a tremendous value to that effort. Of except for edison other two became entrepreneurs..

There is an interesting thing if you observe closely most known "Great men" in any field have been born outside the US but possibly died or acheived major success in US, Einstein, Darwin, chaplin... which makes me think US doesnt provide enough good education in earlier years but provides an avenue for free thinking in later years....again this deficit is because of their strong adherence to rule-based or canned thinking...Of course MIT has some of brilliant guys around. .all i am saying just coming out of MIT doesnt retain their brilliance .. thats where germans, swedish, and other western europeans score on continual research.....😊 I think americans score on wealth generation, Gates, waltons, buffet.. and we have our own Laxmi mittal to counter that...😊

Of course when I talk of research I mean meaningful research.. not the fad research associated with inventing ipod, tivo, phone with ipod, camera, kleenex, cigarette holder, ketchup dispenser while having fries and on the phone 😆and other convenience crap...cancer, diabetes, alzheimers, and other challenging ailments, math, astrophysics, and... related fields doing some serious research..

haha, i am sure steve jobs had a humble background. same as the poor vietnamese kids who have the misfortune of being adopted by rich celebrities.😛 now let's see. he grew up in the Bay Area, which has for decades been one of the more affluent areas in america. he attended cupertino middle school and homestead high school, both pretty good schools. humble background and lack of education indeed. 😛

actually it is the abundance of opportunities that allowed people like him to drop out of college or a bill gates to drop out of harvard to start miscrosoft. somewhere though their early schooling was excellent too. u dont generally get into a harvard if u were not "bright". it is also access to free public schools everywhere, some of them exceptional depending on where you live. but it's there almost everywhere.

as for original/ applied research, look up number of PhDs/ patents/ research papers/ top-ranked colleges, what have you. the US is far ahead of europe, not just western europe. now if u have a more precise definition of brightness and creativity, do illuminate. am all ears😛 if it's that beautiful valentine note that the europeans can write but not sell or that wonderful creative art they can create but stow away in that attic for fear of generating wealth, lemme know.😛

growing up elsewhere and then coming here? that's who i meant when i said "immigrants". 😊

Originally posted by: chatbuster

haha, i am sure steve jobs had a humble background. same as the poor vietnamese kids who have the misfortune of being adopted by rich celebrities.😛 now let's see. he grew up in the Bay Area, which has for decades been one of the more affluent areas in america. he attended cupertino middle school and homestead high school, both pretty good schools. humble background and lack of education indeed. 😛

actually it is the abundance of opportunities that allowed people like him to drop out of college or a bill gates to drop out of ofcourse that is admirable and all he learnt their is how to steal.... from IBM😆😊 nevetheless tht nots even the point the fact remains he dropped out from harvard... what was hethinking.. so all these guys havent demonstrated enough fath in the systemto start miscrosoft. somewhere though their early schooling was excellent too. u dont generally get into a harvard if u were not "bright". it is also access to free public schools everywhere, some of them exceptional depending on where you live. but it's there almost everywhere.

as for original/ applied research, look up number of PhDs/ patents/ research papers/ top-ranked colleges Patents.. sure if you can sneeze without making a sound may be you can patent that too... talk of real research man not whats happening.. has there been real breakthrough research in anything? Medical research is like at the mercy of the pharmaceutical.. .the whole american philosophy counters the idea of research with the bounding factor being its economic implications. now how far can they go with that attitude...the only worthwhile finding of Viagra was accidental side-effect of a drug used for cardiac ailment!!!what have you. the US is far ahead of europe still not in terms of brains maybe in terms of a halo they can create around themselves..., not just western europe. now if u have a more precise definition of brightness and creativity, do illuminate. am all ears😛 if it's that beautiful valentine note that the europeans can write but not sell or that wonderful creative art they can create but stow away in that attic for fear of generating wealth, lemme know.😛

growing up elsewhere and then coming here? that's who i meant when i said "immigrants". 😊...

So no amount of fancy odes to the US brilliance can change the fact.. that a veri small portion in the US if at all is really involved in sensible research.. rest are just puppets in the big scale economic decisions and political jugglery...u need to differentiate research in fields of technology which mostly (but not always) is dumb and true research i mentioned above

i think indian system should include more practical knowledge than theroy in india its like bookworms just read learn and thats it.thing which r useful at practical level should also be taught. things which will help when a person finishes studies and goes out to work then things r so different from what we have studied so a person has to learn new things from the beggining.

Originally posted by: Maya_M

I totally agree. This is what I mentioned in my previous post. We are taught the importance of hard work since childhood but creativity and curiosity are not tapped properly. For that we need better teachers with good teaching background in primary schools.

to tap both the thing equally well is very difficult. its also depends on how creative an individual is.

Originally posted by: sandya_rao7

to tap both the thing equally well is very difficult. its also depends on how creative an individual is.

Unless we attempt how are we going to know? Primary school teacher's role is most important but the sad part is they are the most underpaid.

Originally posted by: chatbuster

haha, i am sure steve jobs had a humble background. same as the poor vietnamese kids who have the misfortune of being adopted by rich celebrities.😛 now let's see. he grew up in the Bay Area, which has for decades been one of the more affluent areas in america. he attended cupertino middle school and homestead high school, both pretty good schools. humble background and lack of education indeed. 😛

actually it is the abundance of opportunities that allowed people like him to drop out of college or a bill gates to drop out of harvard to start miscrosoft. somewhere though their early schooling was excellent too. u dont generally get into a harvard if u were not "bright". it is also access to free public schools everywhere, some of them exceptional depending on where you live. but it's there almost everywhere.

as for original/ applied research, look up number of PhDs/ patents/ research papers/ top-ranked colleges, what have you. the US is far ahead of europe, not just western europe. now if u have a more precise definition of brightness and creativity, do illuminate. am all ears😛 if it's that beautiful valentine note that the europeans can write but not sell or that wonderful creative art they can create but stow away in that attic for fear of generating wealth, lemme know.😛

growing up elsewhere and then coming here? that's who i meant when i said "immigrants". 😊

I concur to your views.👍🏼

Originally posted by: sandya_rao7

to tap both the thing equally well is very difficult. its also depends on how creative an individual is.

Most of it is either genetic or something veri special about that individual.. you cant make geniuses....