Why must Sultan not be a gangster?

ninand thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#1
I have been reading a lot of posts on this forum... and have found that most campers, on all sides, have objection to Sultan being a gangster. I am just attempting to understand why a character like that cannot be part of regular story telling, so please bear with me.

Many people have objections to Sultan being the other option simply cause he's a gangster. They would have wanted a suave, educated successful 'guy' for Madhu, to go against RK. why?

why always a comfortable, rich, successful dude? why should our stories always get comfortable? When did the raw and earthy sense of romance vanish? and when did our idea of romance and the romantic man get skewed?

In context with the story, one rich, super successful guy already fell for her. What is the probability that another would too? Wouldn't it waste away the fairy tale notion of it all? And how would that man have connected with a very average middle class girl, who has no high aspirations but only her strong principles?

Let that argument alone. Why cant a gangster be shown with a human angle, in a romance? and it is being shown that he knows he's wrong. He holds himself responsible and blames no one.
If we go by the technicalities of the past alone, sultan had a more devastating past than RK . He was wrenched from his mother most violently and brutally.
At that age, left to your own devices, can a boy be expected to teach himself to control his instincts? his survival instincts? take morality lessons down there in the stinking trenches of society?

yet somehow this character has it, that notion of right from wrong, and good from bad. He didnt loose himself in all of it. and He is not propogating the idea of being a gangster.

I am not justifying Sultan's way of life. I am trying to explain that weaving such a character into a story line is natural and more real.Both madhu and Sultan have roots in the same section of society. There's a connection from that alone.
and , maybe its a personal preference, but I prefer real conflicts as opposed to imaginary ones that are constructed in an idle arrogant mind.

Bringing in gangster is not to influence people to be one. People aren't that gullible(I know some do give you that idea on this forum but..;) )
Its only free creativity. So yes, I like the fact that he is a gangster, not because that makes him strong and aggressive. He's already that. Being a gangster makes me feel like hes vulnerable, and scared for his son.. guarded with his emotions.. that he's a flawed man, who may never be able to rid himself off his choices, but who'd live with the knowledge and responsibility of those choices.

and then the changes wrought with Madhu in his life.. the sudden need to feel accepted in whatever small way possible. How cant such little, yet so poignant conflicts be appreciated? Why strive for superficial ones?
I am just taken with the father, and his son.. There is so much that Sultan cannot control and how he'd wish he could..
And then its the plain contrast between a boy who grows up to be a man against all odds, and the man who is still a boy, a disturbed headstrong boy.
its only about one's character after a certain point.

Sometimes I see Sultan , simply as a concept of a man. A real man. and with his bad choices and his good intentions.. and his weaknesses and quiet strength. and his pain and his reluctant smiles and his immense gratitude.

and those eyes, which see Madhu, from across the burning holi fire, cradling his son to sleep.


edit:

I do not mean to say there is 'love' already between them.. whatever that is between them is, all from his side. and whatever its is from his side, is inexplicable yet understandable..

I wanted to explore why Sultan is a beautiful contender for Madhu's affections, if/when that happens, despite his being a 'criminal'.
and romance , in a story, does not mean only the love factor between the man and the woman , and only if both are single.

Romance, at least for me , is an open ended story, the ever evolving character, the unresolved nature of emotions like love and the audacious nature of judgements:)

(I am genuinely not trying to sell you Sultan. Just sharing how , I think, a character like that enriches a story. A story for adults not kids. and again its addressed to people who are open to spontaneous evolution of a story and its characters, not to loyal-fans/fanatics.)
Edited by ninand - 12 years ago

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Barbiedoll_sona thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#2
You nailed it...very good post dear 👏
KhatamKahani thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#3
I don't understand why it's a big deal. This isn't the first story to have a Gangster, nor is it out of place for a Gangster to be part of a story which is set in the entertainment/film industry.

Sultan's being a Gangster does a lot for his characterization and the story. It can provide the story and plot with much material, but only if they are able write and execute it well.
ninand thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#4

Originally posted by: likarsh

I don't understand why it's a big deal. This isn't the first story to have a Gangster, nor is it out of place for a Gangster to be part of a story which is set in the entertainment/film industry.


Sultan's being a Gangster does a lot for his characterization and the story. It can provide the story and plot with much material, but only if they are able write and execute it well.


right! and they have done a splendid job already havent' they..
DushtDanaf. thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#5
i guess he could? but they could've have done a better job on his character sketch; I've seen a lot of posts from my side of the fence and most of them seem to be in regards to people having a problem not with the fact that he's a gangster, but a very poorly written gangster. the creatives did a very sloppy job at portraying him. oh and it's only when people start to ship him with Madhubala, when all the plot holes start to show through. As a character he's fine portrayed being a gangster, but as a romantic prospect there's just to many problems that can be pinpointed. having mutual respect and a decent personality doesn't make a relationship work, there are a lot of other factors as well. All of which work against his case.
ninand thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: DushtDanaf.

i guess he could? but they could've have done a better job on his character sketch; I've seen a lot of posts from my side of the fence and most of them seem to be in regards to people having a problem not with the fact that he's a gangster, but a very poorly written gangster. the creatives did a very sloppy job at portraying him. oh and it's only when people start to ship him with Madhubala, when all the plot holes start to show through. As a character he's fine portrayed being a gangster, but as a romantic prospect there's just to many problems that can be pinpointed. having mutual respect and a decent personality doesn't make a relationship work, there are a lot of other factors as well. All of which work against his case.


and why exactly cant he have feelings for Madhu anyway.. Madhu hasn't reciprocated them in any manner. and even if she does, what is wrong about that? If a relationship can work even if there is nothing but cold clinical obsession on the part of one, then such things as objectionable profession don't pose no problem.
And as it is , who falls in love after analyzing if its going to work or not? Madhu obviously didn't. and people praise her for that, even egg her on to give a second chance to a person who didn't deserve even the first one, yeh?

Edited by ninand - 12 years ago
DushtDanaf. thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: ninand


and why exactly cant he have feelings for Madhu anyway.. Madhu hasn't reciprocated them in anyway. and even if she does, what is wrong about that? If a relationship can work even if there is nothing but cold clinical obsession on the part of one, then such things as objectionable profession doesn't pose no problem.
And as it is , who falls in love after analyzing if its going to work or not? Madhu obviously didn't. and people praise her for that, even egg her on to give a second chance to a person who didn't deserve even the first one, yeh?

it's not the fact that he has feelings for her that annoys people; it's that he has sudden overnight feelings for her that ruined his character for a lot of us! weren't you as a fan annoyed that the creators executed it so halfassed when they could have taken their time and had it make sense and still kept him in character? but no, they rushed through everything just for the drama quotient. and the problem's never been madhu reciprocating any of his feelings, we know full well that hasn't happened and she keeps emphasizing that she's still in love with RK so what really bugs me is that despite all this her behavior and his responses are laying the foundations for some really irritating misunderstandings that could take place in future episodes. I'd rather just have it be one way or the other instead of having to suffer through one misunderstanding after the other until the story's just at a complete standstill.
nobodyatnotime thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#8
Actually, I highly doubt Sultan being the gangster is a problem as such. Sutlan as a contender for Madhu's love or as a likely rival for RK is what has driven people mad. Otherwise, there always was gangster heroes in Bollywood and on television. Datta Bhau in that Nakusha show(Laagi Tujhse Lagan) was quite popular.
Otherwise, why was Mukund so unpopular? He was not smoking hot maybe, but he was sweet and a nice guy. The actor has played leads in other serials.

ninand thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#9
it's not the fact that he has feelings for her that annoys people; it's that he has sudden overnight feelings for her that ruined his character for a lot of us! weren't you as a fan annoyed that the creators executed it so halfassed when they could have taken their time and had it make sense and still kept him in character? but no, they rushed through everything just for the drama quotient. and the problem's never been madhu reciprocating any of his feelings, we know full well that hasn't happened and she keeps emphasizing that she's still in love with RK so what really bugs me is that despite all this her behavior and his responses are laying the foundations for some really irritating misunderstandings that could take place in future episodes. I'd rather just have it be one way or the other instead of having to suffer through one misunderstanding after the other until the story's just at a complete standstill.

misunderstandings? whose fault are those misunderstandings anyway? Madhu has shrieked into his ears loud and clear , not once but to the grief of all of us, a dozen times that she loves only him and no one else! no one can do anything about it if the man insists on his obsession that there may be something between sultan and her! that is why , we call it a mental disease that hes suffering from!

and why is it everybody's responsibility to care for mu's but RKs'? he didn't think twice about creating a misunderstanding or a bad reputation for Madhu when he left her in the chawl and announced over the mike that she's unsatisfactory?

as for Sultan.. nothing half baked about him. He and Madhu met under very strange and pressing circumstances. How can people not be affected immediately by someone who has saved their lives not once but again and again.. and would do so again too without regret! How can such magnanimity, such kindness not find an instant response?
It was not like he met Madhu one day, had an ordinary quip and the next day he was in love. Unlike RK , he didn't look at her, nor admire her even once. Its only what she did for his son unasked and without restraints. Something like that connects at once, and stays with one for their entire life.

Its rk who is unnatural in not feeling gratitude and not respecting someone who saved his life. That is the man , and his are the emotions you should be questioning? but I guess, a dark character doesn't need to differentiate between shades at all;)..
Edited by ninand - 12 years ago
DushtDanaf. thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: ninand

it's not the fact that he has feelings for her that annoys people; it's that he has sudden overnight feelings for her that ruined his character for a lot of us! weren't you as a fan annoyed that the creators executed it so halfassed when they could have taken their time and had it make sense and still kept him in character? but no, they rushed through everything just for the drama quotient. and the problem's never been madhu reciprocating any of his feelings, we know full well that hasn't happened and she keeps emphasizing that she's still in love with RK so what really bugs me is that despite all this her behavior and his responses are laying the foundations for some really irritating misunderstandings that could take place in future episodes. I'd rather just have it be one way or the other instead of having to suffer through one misunderstanding after the other until the story's just at a complete standstill.


misunderstandings? whose fault are those misunderstandings anyway? Madhu has shrieked into his ears loud and clear , not once but to the grief of all of us, a dozen times that she loves only him and no one else! no one can do anything about it if the man insists on his obsession that there may be something between sultan and her! that is why , we call it a mental disease hes suffering from!

and why is it everybody's responsibility to care for mu's but RK? he didn't think twice about creating a misunderstanding or a bad reputation for Madhu when he left her in the chawl and announced over the mike that she's unsatisfactory?

as for Sultan.. nothing half baked about him. He and Madhu met under very strange and pressing circumstamces. How can people not be affected immediately by someone who have saved their lives not once but again and again.. and would do so again too without regret! How can such magnanimity, such kindness not find an instant response?
It was not like he met Madhu one day, had a quip and next day he was in love. Unllike RK , he didn't look at her, nor admire her even once. Its only what he did for his son unasked and without restraints.

Its rk who is unnatural in not feeling gratitude and not respecting someone who saved his life. That is the man , and his are the emotions you should be questioning? but I guess, a dark character doesn't need to differentiate between shades at all;)..
what? in what third dimension was Sultan developing feelings for her a gradual process??? Or even a natural process. that's the biggest negative for his character and you're glorifying and romantisizing it out to be something completely different then it actually was. maybe you need to go rewatch some of the epsiodes but what bugged me the most was him reminiscing about his dead wife and then the very next moment daydreaming about Madhubala. Im being completely open minded about his character right now, RK's not even in the picture right now, but he still strikes me as the most frivoulous guy a character could be made out to be! all his morals and dogma mean jackshit if he's that quick to change his opinions and views. I'm sorry but i don't see him bending to Madhubala's views as some devine sign that he's inherently suited for her.

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